Covid vaccine , age before special interest groups good or bad? *Mod Note In OP*

meeeeh

History Queen wrote: »

Neither do I, my point is close proximity to others increases risk. Where this cannot be mitagated I feel these people should be prioritised for vaccination.

What is the risk of dying. Apparently 70-times lower for someone in their 20s in comparison to someone in sixties. Should we sacrifice lives of those in 60es to avoid those in 20ies getting sick?

I think hard numbers should be the only criteria and we have Covid around long enough to get reliable stats. Yes people could get sick but I think first priority should be reduce numbers of people dying or ending in hospitals. If you avoid severe cases there is a lot less strain on health system too which should help with other aspects.

History Queen

meeeeh wrote: »

What is the risk of dying. Apparently 70-times lower for someone in their 20s in comparison to someone in sixties. Should we sacrifice lives of those in 60es to avoid those in 20ies getting sick?

I think hard numbers should be the only criteria and we have Covid around long enough to get reliable stats.

That's a really good point. I suppose I'm focusing more on more risk of transmission leading to more illness as well as the lack of protections these people face compared to say your 50 year old working from home, but I see your point.

meeeeh

History Queen wrote: »

That's a really good point. I suppose I'm focusing more on more risk of transmission leading to more illness as well as the lack of protections these people face compared to say your 50 year old working from home, but I see your point.

I had no problem with previous list, neither would I have any issue with the list which would put teachers or guards at the top of the que or anyone else. Selfishly if teachers don't catch Covid there is less chance I will have two kids home schooling for 2 weeks so I can see how stopping transmission in schools is important. How ever in my opinion not as important as protecting people most likely to end up in hospitals or dead.

That being said talking about possibly implementing antigen testing in schools in September is ridiculous. They really are dragging their feet there.

Baggly

Mod

There is more to this discussion than teachers and teachers unions. At least there had better be, because i dont intend to see two threads on the topic of COVID and schools.

If you want to discuss COVID and schools, go to the dedicated thread for it.

If you want to discuss the rest of this topic, do it here.

Ashbourne hoop

Yes a good thing overall. Easier admin and is a clearer policy. Hopefully with the amount of vaccines coming on board, it won't make a massive difference.

People will still moan though.

History Queen

History Queen wrote: »

Yes people with serious medical issues are still being vaccinated, I didn't suggest they weren't?

But you said...

Do you really think that an SNA or a Special Education Teacher or member of staff working in July provision should not be vaccinated ahead of someone working from home? Not just for their protection but for the protection and education of the children in their care?

If the child they are working with needs protecting then they will already be on the vaccination list.

If you have a 55 year old working from home vs a 25 year old SNA and they both contracted covid, from what we’ve learnt so far about this virus, which one has a higher probability of requiring hospital treatment?

Swap the ages around if you like.

History Queen

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

But you said...



If the child they are working with needs protecting then they will already be on the vaccination list.

If you have a 55 year old working from home vs a 25 year old SNA and they both contracted covid, from what we’ve learnt so far about this virus, which one has a higher probability of requiring hospital treatment?

Swap the ages around if you like.

Children under 16 aren't being vaccinated presently as far as I'm aware? I already stated that I understand the point about risk of illness and death, my point would be the SNA is at far higher risk of contracting covid than the person working from home. I do accept your point and meeehs before you.

Away With The Fairies

Think I read somewhere that older people and fat people spreads covid more. So it's good that it's going by age if it's true.

YellowLead

History Queen wrote: »

Children under 16 aren't being vaccinated presently as far as I'm aware? I already stated that I understand the point about risk of illness and death, my point would be the SNA is at far higher risk of contracting covid than the person working from home. I do accept your point and meeehs before you.

It’s not about risk of contacting though, it’s about risk of serious illness and death. That’s what the decision is all about and needs to be all about.
Hence age is the way to go once those with underlying serious conditions and healthcare workers have been done. Government making a very smart decision here.

Plumbthedepths

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Think I read somewhere that older people and fat people spreads covid more. So it's good that it's going by age if it's true.

Can you post the link to the research you read? although I would suggest the elderly and obsese are more at risk.

Natterjack from Kerry

History Queen wrote: »

Neither do I, my point is close proximity to others increases risk. Where this cannot be mitagated I feel these people should be prioritised for vaccination.

This is not untrue regarding increased risk.
But the point is that age has orders of magnitude greater increased risk than other factors, and so overrides the small risk rise related to working in close proximity to other people.

Away With The Fairies

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Can you post the link to the research you read? although I would suggest the elderly and obsese are more at risk.

https://www.laboratoryequipment.com/573221-The-3-Factors-That-Make-Someone-a-COVID-19-Superspreader/

Plumbthedepths

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

https://www.laboratoryequipment.com/573221-The-3-Factors-That-Make-Someone-a-COVID-19-Superspreader/

Aren't we lucky masks are mandatory in retail and on public transport.
It still doesn't change the fact that we know that the elderly and obese face a significant risk from Covid .

Jim_Hodge

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Think I read somewhere that older people and fat people spreads covid more. So it's good that it's going by age if it's true.

They don't spread it more, they are more at risk from it.

A massive difference.

Morries Wigs

Anything that brings down corruption and nepotism in this country is a plus-doing by age correct decision I heard the teachers group complaining

thejuggler

Is it true that the homeless, travelling community and roma community are being prioritised for vaccination before under 65s? Heard this mentioned on radio this morning. Presume the admin required to notify and vaccinate these groups would be considerable.

FlubberJones

So I'm 51, do we have any ideas as to when they will reach, not sickly, quite healthy, not over weight, working from home 51 year old...

seamus

thejuggler wrote: »

Is it true that the homeless, travelling community and roma community are being prioritised for vaccination before under 65s? Heard this mentioned on radio this morning. Presume the admin required to notify and vaccinate these groups would be considerable.

That seems to be the plan. As per the other thread, they will most likely rock up to a site one day, ask how many live there and arrange to come back the next day. Then they'll give them the J&J one dose jab, and job done.

Responder XY

Responder XY wrote: »

Good thing for sure. Age is clearly the biggest factor in how likely Covid is to impact a person severely. No justification for vaccinating a young guard or teacher when an older person remains vulnerable. 

Unions are pathetic. Heard reps from the teachers and garda unions on Newstalk this morning and was disgusted by them. Presenters rightly went through them. Hopefully they realise how out of touch they are with reality and lay off. But they'll probably continue to make a show of themselves unfortunately and create discord and lack of confidence in the process for no good reason.

Yep, it's completely fair that a 44 year old Garda who has to investigate covid breaches and get spat on while the 48 year old traveler who hasn't one engaged in work and has attended multiple events, will get vaccinated first. Oh, don't forget the 48 year old that's wiring from home. Vital they get it before the Gardai

Makes sense, in Ireland.

Lack of confidence in the system? The entire thing is a shambles. They are only bringing in age because of skullduggery and a complete inability to organize the vaccination programme properly.

JMNolan

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Yep, it's completely fair that a 44 year old Garda who has to investigate covid breaches and get spat on while the 48 year old traveler who hasn't one engaged in work and has attended multiple events, will get vaccinated first. Oh, don't forget the 48 year old that's wiring from home. Vital they get it before the Gardai

Not sure you quite get why they're doing it by age. Two reasons

1. Most importantly is simplicity. A simple plan is more likely to succeed than a more complex one.
2. A 44 year old garda has the same risk of dying or long covid as a 44 year old person working from home if they both get covid. The fact the guard is at more risk of contracting it is irrelevant to that fact.

Sofa King Great

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Yep, it's completely fair that a 44 year old Garda who has to investigate covid breaches and get spat on while the 48 year old traveler who hasn't one engaged in work and has attended multiple events, will get vaccinated first. Oh, don't forget the 48 year old that's wiring from home. Vital they get it before the Gardai

Makes sense, in Ireland.

Lack of confidence in the system? The entire thing is a shambles. They are only bringing in age because of skullduggery and a complete inability to organize the vaccination programme properly.

What about the Garda who is 28 and working in kerry where cases are low? Should he get vaccinated ahead of a 58 year old working from home who lives in offaly where cases are high?

There are lots of hypothetical examples to suit either argument

JMNolan

JMNolan wrote: »

Not sure you quite get why they're doing it by age. Two reasons

1. Most importantly is simplicity. A simple plan is more likely to succeed than a more complex one.
2. A 44 year old garda has the same risk of dying or long covid as a 44 year old person working from home if they both get covid. The fact the guard is at more risk of contracting it is irrelevant to that fact.

The chances of getting the illness is not relevant? Is that a joke? Of course it's relevant! The work from home was specifically told to work from home to minimize the chance if getting covid.

Reducing the amount of people who get covid is exactly why we have a lockdown! It's exactly why Gardai are standing at checkpoints and you can't get your hair cut.

astrofool

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Funny thing is that this came about as the HSE couldn't identify those in cohort 4 which is shambolic

I don't think it's that they couldn't identify these people, but that:

• The criteria defining this group became looser and looser over time, and it's very hard to say no to a sick person
• People could overplay the seriousness of their illness to jump the queue
• A lot of people who wouldn't normally get treatment suddenly starting registering themselves

I think the whole idea now is that the vaccine rollout will speed up enough that the difference will only be a few weeks regardless of whether you were at elevated risk or not, and by using 1 risk factor, queue jumping is all but eliminated.

astrofool

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

The chances of getting the illness is not relevant? Is that a joke? Of course it's relevant! The work from home was specifically told to work from home to minimize the chance if getting covid.

Reducing the amount of people who get covid is exactly why we have a lockdown! It's exactly why Gardai are standing at checkpoints and you can't get your hair cut.

Reducing the number of deaths and hospitalisations due to COVID is why there is a lockdown. The vast majority of deaths and hospitalisations occur in older age groups.

meeeeh

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Yep, it's completely fair that a 44 year old Garda who has to investigate covid breaches and get spat on while the 48 year old traveler who hasn't one engaged in work and has attended multiple events, will get vaccinated first. Oh, don't forget the 48 year old that's wiring from home. Vital they get it before the Gardai

Makes sense, in Ireland.

Lack of confidence in the system? The entire thing is a shambles. They are only bringing in age because of skullduggery and a complete inability to organize the vaccination programme properly.

Well the only two other very at risk groups (on top of healthcare workers etc) are Travelers and Roma community. So if I get you right you are saying we should scrap age cohorts and vaccinate Travelers and Romani first since they more at risk.

astrofool

astrofool wrote: »

Reducing the number of deaths and hospitalisations due to COVID is why there is a lockdown. The vast majority of deaths and hospitalisations occur in older age groups.

So why aren't older people only subject to lockdown and why are the daily numbers so important?

meeeeh

meeeeh wrote: »

Well the only two other very at risk groups (on top of healthcare workers etc) are Travelers and Roma community. So if I get you right you are saying we should scrap age cohorts and vaccinate Travelers and Romani first since they more at risk.

They are getting prioritized.

Feel good now with your smart reply? That a group is getting ahead of you purely because they have chosen to ignore the rules?

Plumbthedepths

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

So why aren't older people only subject to lockdown and why are the daily numbers so important?

We are all in this together........

lbj666

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Yep, it's completely fair that a 44 year old Garda who has to investigate covid breaches and get spat on while the 48 year old traveler who hasn't one engaged in work and has attended multiple events, will get vaccinated first. Oh, don't forget the 48 year old that's wiring from home. Vital they get it before the Gardai

Makes sense, in Ireland.

Lack of confidence in the system? The entire thing is a shambles. They are only bringing in age because of skullduggery and a complete inability to organize the vaccination programme properly.

There is a clear risk that outbreaks in traveller groups could contribute to prolonguing restrictions, regardless of whether they deserve to or not there is a very valid case for them to be vacinated in the interests of the rest of the population.

Reducing hospitalisations/deaths/outbreaks/cases comes first, fairness comes 2nd.

History Queen

meeeeh wrote: »

Well the only two other very at risk groups (on top of healthcare workers etc) are Travelers and Roma community. So if I get you right you are saying we should scrap age cohorts and vaccinate Travelers and Romani first since they more at risk.

Travellers are being vaccinated first ahead of the age classifications. That hasn't been scrapped. Not sure about Roma.