Why did you decide to be childfree?

nothing

Don't remember making the decision, but know it was never something I wanted. My mother was a childminder, so there was always kids/babies in the house, and for the most part I just found it annoying.

Mid 30s now, and just about have the energy to look after myself, can't imagine trying to cope with a child on top of a mental illness. No thank you.

Too many perks without kids too - can do what I want when I want, go where I want on a whim (restrictions allowing), eat what I want when I want, full control of the tv, all the space at home is mine, etc etc.

I don't have any childfree friends, but thankfully I rarely hear any comments about my decision, it's just accepted. Some have small kids, some have grown up kids, some are desperately trying. I wouldn't want to be in any of their shoes!

Ave Sodalis

I've never really had any desire to have children of my own. I had an active hand (sometimes very active) in raising my siblings growing up, so I feel like I'm already done with children without ever having my own. One sibling had behavioural issues growing up, and 2 other siblings were used by their parents (father and stepmother) to cause a lot of damage mentally, which wiped any sort of desire to have children of my own from me.

I have never gotten warm, fuzzy feelings when seeing babies. I don't have any particular maternal instinct to have any of my own. My now ex seen a toddler walking across the road in a harness. He started cooing about it and my stomach dropped with dread because I realised it was the beginning of the end of an otherwise great relationship. I tried really hard to spark that want. I would think happy thoughts when around them, and try to trick my brain into becoming at least a little bit broody, but as soon as I would stop actively trying, it would be gone. If I was told I'm infertile today, I'd celebrate.



Now I have physical health issues that may or may not make it difficult for me to even look after myself, so if the hormones hit in 10 years time, it would be a bad decision anyway.

divide_by_zero

I was twelve years old when I knew I never wanted kids. I come from a large family and second oldest, my parents worked a lot which meant that me and my sister had to look after our younger siblings. We fed them, cleaned, them and put them to bed. I remember at that age thinking I never want to have to do this again with kids of my own and that sealed it for me. I look back now and it feels like I've already raised a family and often wonder why people do it. I'm a guy in my mid forties and couldn't be more happy with the decision I've made to not have kids.

magicbastarder

interesting; my wife used to mind kids (on her own) from age 12, and word went out among the neighbours and at one point she was minding five kids, when she was about 13. i wonder how much of an impact that had on her choice.

Faith

Being parentified as a child seems to send people quite firmly into either camp, as far as I can see. Either they grow up thinking “I want a big family of my own” or “I never want children”. Not many who grow up around loads of kids seem to be ambivalent about kids as adults, in my experience.

lainey_d_123

It's mainly been circumstantial for me. Always assumed I'd have kids and was dating with the aim of settling down and having a family but the relationships I got into just didn't work out, and I'm now 35 and single and reconsidering whether I do actually want kids or I've just felt like it was something I had to do because of other people's expectations.

One thing for me is that I genuinely think women get a terrible deal when it comes to kids and family stuff. Not only do women have to go through the physical ordeal of pregnancy, it seems that even now in 2021, it's rare for their male partners to truly do their share of the work. I see women just run absolutely ragged trying to cope with the kids and the housework and the cooking while their partners take themselves off on fishing trips with the lads, or watch sport on TV all afternoon. That would drive me absolutely mental and I don't think I'd be able to tolerate it.

The career aspect is also a big one - it's basically impossible to 'have it all', and having kids generally comes with the reality that you're going to have to make career sacrifices, whether it's going part time or not going for demanding roles/promotions or even giving up work altogether, and then being financially dependent on your partner (and I've seen this go REALLY wrong and descend into outright financial/emotional abuse). Men just don't suffer in the same way at all, and I don't think I'd be able to deal with the resentment, in all honesty. I've seen plenty of cases of women being left in the lurch when the partner leaves and she's left with the kids and no career and no money.

I'm also unsure whether I'd cope with kids. I've worked with them before as an au pair and a teacher and been told many times I'm good with them, and they usually love me, but I find it incredibly stressful and draining. I'm autistic with ADHD and have a lower threshold than most for frustration and boredom, and I find kids very frustrating and boring on the whole. Being a parent isn't like being a teacher where you hand them back at the end of the day. The idea of basically having no 'me time' to decompress is terrifying, and I genuinely worry about whether or not I'd cope.

I feel like women especially are 'conditioned' by society to feel like marriage and kids are essential and you'll end up a sad old spinster if you don't follow the life script, and the older I get, the more I'm questioning the entire thing. The women I know with kids don't seem happy. They seem stressed and miserable and never get a moment to themselves. I have a friend in St Lucia who has invited me over, and I can just go, as soon as the covid restrictions allow. I can just book a flight and go over there whenever I want to without having to think about kids and school and responsibilities to others. I find it a bit galling how women are often framed as 'selfish' for not having kids so they can enjoy holidays and me time - what is so bad about that? I don't feel like I was put on this earth to serve other people the entire time and neglect my own needs. I've worked really hard to build a career and a life for myself after a difficult childhood and more and more I'm feeling like I don't really want to give that up.

lainey_d_123

Faith wrote: »

Being parentified as a child seems to send people quite firmly into either camp, as far as I can see. Either they grow up thinking “I want a big family of my own” or “I never want children”. Not many who grow up around loads of kids seem to be ambivalent about kids as adults, in my experience.

I think this definitely affected me. I was basically a skivvy in my teenage years. I was expected to look after the house and my siblings while my parents worked. My brother is just a year younger but absolutely nothing was expected of him. He got to sit around watching TV all day and hang around with friends as I was cleaning bathrooms and washing dishes and getting things ready for dinner. I couldn't stand having all this responsibility that I hadn't asked for at the expense of being able to do normal teenage things. I'm sure this has fed into my overwhelming desire to be able to do whatever I want as an adult.

Rezident

Rezident wrote: »

My partner is 31 and she never wanted kids and I am sure she never will want them which suits me perfectly, although if she had wanted them I am sure we would have had them so I'm not sure how important my view is on the matter. Compared with my wife (it takes years to get divorced in Ireland) being childfree makes every aspect of our relationship better. I am so lucky that I found someone who does not seem to think she needs kids and I enthusiastically demonstrate my gratitude to her every day. I will do everything in my power to hold on to this wonderful woman.

My wife wanted kids more than anything in life and I thought it would fix the problems in our relationship. Of course it can never do that, in fact it brought things to a head much sooner when she deserted the family home with our son and ran away from her maternity hospital at 8 months pregnant. If someone sufferers from serious mental health issues, pregnancy will not make things better.

I know more people, especially men, need to be much more careful about who we have kids with, instead of just bringing more fatherless children (increased probability of mental health problems, anti-social behaviour, criminality and suicide) into the world because we feel like we are 'in love' with a girl. I love my kids, I support my kids, but they now live on the far side of the country or wherever their mother moves to next and my wife's revolving boyfriend's have more 'rights' to them than I do.

I am so grateful for my girlfriend and for each woman that does not needlessly have children. Clearly not everyone having kids meets the high standards to be a good parent, look around the world today. Because if you are in a sexual relationship with a woman, and she wants kids, as a man, I don't know how we can resist that, I honestly don't. It feels like we don't stand a chance and then neither will the kids.

I am very interested in this thread and in my girlfriend's reasons for being childfree, she has never really told me why she doesn't want kids and I have never pushed it, but I am very grateful. She is getting extra kisses and cuddles today!

You are not childfree and to be honest I find this post a bit strange.
You are grateful to your girlfriend because she doesn't want kids, but you actually have kids.
Oh and fyi, your ex wife's boyfriends do not have more rights to your children then you do.

JoChervil

When I was young I never thought about it. It was just at the back of my had that I will follow normal path: get married, have kids. Even my mum mused few times that I would be a good mum. Maybe because I was more caring than my sisters, at least to my mum. Now I know that such presumption was based on my wrong trait, which was over caring.

I was lucky enough that I haven’t got pregnant by accident. I don’t think I would have strong enough psyche to have an abortion or even seriously consider it, so I am happy I never had to face such a difficult decision, while now I know for sure that I would be a terrible mother.

I simply worry too much about the closest people. So I would be overprotective. My kid would have to literally stay in the middle of the room and don’t move. Only such situation would make me calm. I can’t watch kids climbing or doing dangerous things. I think I can imagine too many things, which could go wrong. So my kids would have a life of horror. So now, when I know myself better, I am happy that I don’t have them. I would feel awfully sorry knowing that I limited them and they haven’t developed in the best way for them, only in the best way for my peace of mind at the time.

Funnily now, when I know myself better, I could have kids emotionally. I think I could restrain my overprotective urges, but unfortunately it is too late for me physically. And anyway it would be a hard work for me.

So I have no regrets. I would regret much more having damaged kids because at the time I could have had them I would very likely limit them enormously.

BTW I know that it is a natural course of life and all parents are imperfect. And most of them worry too much. But I wouldn’t like my kids to “eat my sour grapes”. It is my responsibility to deal with it first.

Another thing is I need a lot of my personal space. I know it looks like a paradox but it is not. I don’t even live with my partner and it is better that way. But it took me some time and few failed relationships to realise it.

PmMeUrDogs

Faith wrote: »

Being parentified as a child seems to send people quite firmly into either camp, as far as I can see. Either they grow up thinking “I want a big family of my own” or “I never want children”. Not many who grow up around loads of kids seem to be ambivalent about kids as adults, in my experience.

Parentification definitely made my decision for me.

nothing

Faith wrote: »

Being parentified as a child seems to send people quite firmly into either camp, as far as I can see. Either they grow up thinking “I want a big family of my own” or “I never want children”. Not many who grow up around loads of kids seem to be ambivalent about kids as adults, in my experience.

I'd never thought of that before, but I think that might have been what "triggered" it off for me too

Galwayguy35

Because kids are annoying.

paperflights

Long time lurker, decided this forum deserved an account setup!
I'm a 27 y/o female, which may seem young in terms of childfree decisions but I'm fairly adamant on my decision and my age has no bearing on it.
To be honest, I never really actually liked children that much. I was dragged to babysit cousins and neighbours whenever I was a teenager and I can remember just counting down the seconds until their bedtime because I just found entertaining them so boring. Like others, I had it at the back of my mind that I'd probably miraculously end up liking children sometime in my life and having them, but that really hasn't happened at all. I find them really boring and annoying. I interact well with them and they always like me, but I'm dying of boredom inside.
I don't intend to share my childfree decision with others purely because it's really nobody's business. I was really taken aback a few months ago when a colleague started asking me if I wanted children, etc. She probably thought it was harmless enough but I really would never dream of asking anyone it. Anyway, it turned out that she was really heartbroken because it didn't seem that she and her partner were able to have children, or so it appeared to them anyway after years of trying. I was really heartbroken for her- she'd make a fantastic mother- but for me, it just cemented my childfree stance. Without meaning to cause offence, being infertile etc wouldn't be a major issue for me at all.
On another note, I think it's great that people seem to be mulling over the children decision now. I know countless people who seem to have "fallen into" having children, without giving it any great thought, and seem constantly exasperated at parenting and longing for freedom. On the other hand, I think back to my school days and many of the people who had issues with their parents- divorced parents, etc- are now parents themselves and seem to really dote on their children.
Finances are also a big factor for me. I make an ok salary but after my mortgage etc. is paid there isn't a huge amount leftover. I have friends etc who pay for childcare and it all just seems extortionate.
Finally, there's the fact that I'm really independent. I love being able to go when I want, where I want (pre covid obviously) and the thoughts of running kids to music practice or sports training just drives me bananas. The thought of parent-teacher meetings, making lunches etc is imprisioning for me!

skallywag

To me it was based mainly on what some people may view as selfish reasons, meaning I just wanted my time for myself. It did not work out that way in the end as it happens, but you learn to get on with things.

BuboBubo

paperflights wrote: »

Long time lurker, decided this forum deserved an account setup!
I'm a 27 y/o female, which may seem young in terms of childfree decisions but I'm fairly adamant on my decision and my age has no bearing on it.
To be honest, I never really actually liked children that much. I was dragged to babysit cousins and neighbours whenever I was a teenager and I can remember just counting down the seconds until their bedtime because I just found entertaining them so boring. Like others, I had it at the back of my mind that I'd probably miraculously end up liking children sometime in my life and having them, but that really hasn't happened at all. I find them really boring and annoying. I interact well with them and they always like me, but I'm dying of boredom inside.
I don't intend to share my childfree decision with others purely because it's really nobody's business. I was really taken aback a few months ago when a colleague started asking me if I wanted children, etc. She probably thought it was harmless enough but I really would never dream of asking anyone it. Anyway, it turned out that she was really heartbroken because it didn't seem that she and her partner were able to have children, or so it appeared to them anyway after years of trying. I was really heartbroken for her- she'd make a fantastic mother- but for me, it just cemented my childfree stance. Without meaning to cause offence, being infertile etc wouldn't be a major issue for me at all.

On another note, I think it's great that people seem to be mulling over the children decision now. I know countless people who seem to have "fallen into" having children, without giving it any great thought, and seem constantly exasperated at parenting and longing for freedom. On the other hand, I think back to my school days and many of the people who had issues with their parents- divorced parents, etc- are now parents themselves and seem to really dote on their children.
Finances are also a big factor for me. I make an ok salary but after my mortgage etc. is paid there isn't a huge amount leftover. I have friends etc who pay for childcare and it all just seems extortionate.
Finally, there's the fact that I'm really independent. I love being able to go when I want, where I want (pre covid obviously) and the thoughts of running kids to music practice or sports training just drives me bananas. The thought of parent-teacher meetings, making lunches etc is imprisioning for me!

I know several couples who have "fallen" into parenthood. It's a box ticking exercise, house - check, partner - check, 2.4 kids - check. A parent will only admit they're miserable and unhappy to childfree folks, never to other parents. That's a whole other topic, but sometimes there is regret.

Just seeing my brother in his (never gets cold) sprogwagon, driving here there and yonder to sports training, kids playmates gaffs, the older teenagers boyfriend's place, after school study, etc, etc, wears me out. No thank you very much not for me.

He has (jokingly?) said, "will you take them for a few months, I need a break"

skallywag

BuboBubo wrote: »

A parent will only admit they're miserable and unhappy to childfree folks, never to other parents

That's not true in my own experience.

I have often come across friends etc. who will openly talk about this, and I do so myself. Sometimes the decisions that you take do not align to the way that reality pans out and you find yourself living with it.

skallywag

Dial Hard wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if that was in Ireland, and perhaps Weisses might confirm.

There are doctors who will refuse, and they are perfectly within their rights to do so. No doctor should be forced to carry out a procedure which does not fit comfortably with them.

It is certainly possible to get it done though, a good friend of mine had the snip in his mid 30s.

Lemonee_

Hi all, 28 years old female here. Having kids has never appealed to me anyway, enjoy being my own person too much which could be considered selfish!

I also have severe PCOS, to the extent it wouldn't be possible anyway. I am happy with the decision as is my partner. I have nephews and nieces that I absolutely adore and spoil, because of this people think I will change my mind about having my own kids. Also with the PCOS, I keep getting comments from MIL about needing to 'protect my ovaries' as if I have done something to cause the condition. Can be frustrating sometimes when people cannot respect our decision.

twiddleypop

29 female and also have never wanted children. Cannot find a single logical reason to have them and have never felt the biological need either.

I am single and don't find that many men (or at least the ones I have met) like that a woman can be so adamant about it. A lot say not now but maybe someday... and don't want the door shut completely.

I don't even think I could date someone that had kids already and didn't want more as I would probably play the evil stepmother role waaay too well.

shesty

skallywag wrote: »

That's not true in my own experience.

I have often come across friends etc. who will openly talk about this, and I do so myself. Sometimes the decisions that you take do not align to the way that reality pans out and you find yourself living with it.

Yeah I would only discuss the hardships of parenting with other parents.

markodaly

o1s1n wrote: »

Plenty of people genuinely regret having children too, it's just such an absolute taboo it's never discussed and I'm sure a massively repressed feeling for most parents who feel that way.

Do they do? Is there any stats on this or is it just a made-up viewpoint?

Faith

markodaly wrote: »

Do they do? Is there any stats on this or is it just a made-up viewpoint?

I doubt there are stats, but there's plenty of people sharing their experiences online and through other forms of media. You can look at the Facebook page "I regret having children" or https://www.reddit.com/r/regretfulparents/ as two examples.

R.D. aka MR.D

markodaly wrote: »

I don't want to drag this thread off-topic, but the odd Facebook forum or Reddit group wouldn't be any real indication of 'plenty' of people regretting having children. Whether we like it or not, humans are biologically predisposed to want to have children, otherwise there would be no humans on the planet. It is just biology.

One thing I will say is that children complicate things, especially relationships. If you are not secure in yourself, your partner and your relationship and you bring children into the equation, then it can be a very rocky road, hence why I understand from many posts here people just don't want the hassle and want to remain childfree which is fine and probably actually very wise for all concerned.

I see having kids as a high risk, high reward venture.

Do you have the stats to back up that parents don't regret their kids?

Would you like to share your opinion or scientific biological reasons that there are abandoned and abused kids in the world?

It is great that you like having children and enjoy it. But spare a minute for how opressive it might be for someone who wants to express their less than enthusiastic feeling on their children to be told that it is 'biological'.

Do you actually want to hear the other side or are you just here to patronise us childfree people . 'Wise for all concerned'. You're some boy.

markodaly

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Do you have the stats to back up that parents don't regret their kids?

Would you like to share your opinion or scientific biological reasons that there are abandoned and abused kids in the world?

It is great that you like having children and enjoy it. But spare a minute for how opressive it might be for someone who wants to express their less than enthusiastic feeling on their children to be told that it is 'biological'.

Do you actually want to hear the other side or are you just here to patronise us childfree people . 'Wise for all concerned'. Your some boy.

... I'm patronizing when you write a post like that? OK.

Ave Sodalis

markodaly wrote:

... I'm patronizing when you write a post like that? OK.

Your post is pretty patronising, when you surmised from the thread that people just don't want the hassle of kids. Most of the posts are about how they never felt that urge to have children and are comfortable enough in themselves to not have children just because society says so.
Generally when people conclude that it's a good idea for someone not to have children, they tend to be implying that that person is in someway defective as a human. Not saying you're doing that, as per say, but it's often meant that way.

cee_jay

markodaly wrote: »

I don't want to drag this thread off-topic, but the odd Facebook forum or Reddit group wouldn't be any real indication of 'plenty' of people regretting having children. Whether we like it or not, humans are biologically predisposed to want to have children, otherwise there would be no humans on the planet. It is just biology.

One thing I will say is that children complicate things, especially relationships. If you are not secure in yourself, your partner and your relationship and you bring children into the equation, then it can be a very rocky road, hence why I understand from many posts here people just don't want the hassle and want to remain childfree which is fine and probably actually very wise for all concerned.

I see having kids as a high risk, high reward venture.

You see that... for you.
Looking at our meaning of life is to reproduce is one evolutionary viewpoint only. If you look at it on an individual basis, or even moral or environmental, it is not the meaning of life. In fact, it could be argued by not having children we are actually saving the planet. From a biological point of view, having children is probably one of the most selfish things you can do. You’re stealing resources from others in order to perpetuate your genes. If we continue the way we are going, there won't be a planet left for us to reproduce on.

If we do look at a pre-disposition to having children, that doesn't necessarily mean you don't regret it. Relationships are complex, and just being a parent doesn't necessarily mean you will have a loving relationship with your child, and there are many reasons why you might have a regret around this.

I am quite secure in myself and in my relationship. My relationship status was never a reason for me not to have children. I never had this biological urge you claim is the reason for my existence.

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

I don't want to drag this thread off-topic, but the odd Facebook forum or Reddit group wouldn't be any real indication of 'plenty' of people regretting having children. Whether we like it or not, humans are biologically predisposed to want to have children, otherwise there would be no humans on the planet. It is just biology.

One thing I will say is that children complicate things, especially relationships. If you are not secure in yourself, your partner and your relationship and you bring children into the equation, then it can be a very rocky road, hence why I understand from many posts here people just don't want the hassle and want to remain childfree which is fine and probably actually very wise for all concerned.

I see having kids as a high risk, high reward venture.

This might help you understand

markodaly

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

Your post is pretty patronising, when you surmised from the thread that people just don't want the hassle of kids. Most of the posts are about how they never felt that urge to have children and are comfortable enough in themselves to not have children just because society says so.
Generally when people conclude that it's a good idea for someone not to have children, they tend to be implying that that person is in someway defective as a human. Not saying you're doing that, as per say, but it's often meant that way.

My post was not meant to be patronizing. As was already mentioned in this forum, everyone is born childfree, until they either shed their mortal coil or become parents.

Many people have also alluded to the fact that they are happy out in their routine of living their own lives and don't want to upset that by having children. Not wanting the hassle of kids is a pretty apt description of many of the comments, but not all and I wouldn't say that it's patronizing to state that.

I don't own a pet or a dog for example, or have a bunch of chickens out the back garden because I don't want the hassle of it. Each to their own.

markodaly

cee_jay wrote: »

You see that... for you.
Looking at our meaning of life is to reproduce is one evolutionary viewpoint only. If you look at it on an individual basis, or even moral or environmental, it is not the meaning of life. In fact, it could be argued by not having children we are actually saving the planet. From a biological point of view, having children is probably one of the most selfish things you can do. You’re stealing resources from others in order to perpetuate your genes. If we continue the way we are going, there won't be a planet left for us to reproduce on.

Well, that is one way of looking at it, perhaps an extreme way, which taken to the logical conclusion humans will make themselves extinct. However, how many people that want to be childfree, are actually trying to save the planet? A tiny tiny fraction id say. But it is a point of view I have heard from some people online, although I dont know if its actually done in practice.

If we do look at a pre-disposition to having children, that doesn't necessarily mean you don't regret it. Relationships are complex, and just being a parent doesn't necessarily mean you will have a loving relationship with your child, and there are many reasons why you might have a regret around this.

Of course. LIFE is complicated. Some people who have children may regret it, just like people who don't have children may regret it later on in life. Both are true statements. Again, each to their own. It's a wonderful thing that people are alive in 2021 where there is actually some choice to be had.

I am quite secure in myself and in my relationship. My relationship status was never a reason for me not to have children. I never had this biological urge you claim is the reason for my existence.

It is not my claim at all, we have evolved over millions of years from apes that lived in trees. We, humans, exist more so by accident but also by hardcoded biological urges that in some way are still with us today. Why does it feel good to have sex, for example? That is nature telling us to do it again and again because it wants to reproduce. However, today we have contraception and the like to counter that natural consequence of having sex. A couple wanting to have a child-free life in 1921 would have found it incredibly difficult than a couple in 2021.

JoChervil

markodaly wrote: »

Why does it feel good to have sex, for example? That is nature telling us to do it again and again because it wants to reproduce. .

Why does it feel good to drink alcohol. Is it a nature telling us to be alcoholics?

Or why does eating feel so good? Obese people are often not healthy and if we indulge we would become unhealthy.

Is it what nature wants for us?

cee_jay

markodaly wrote: »

Well, that is one way of looking at it, perhaps an extreme way, which taken to the logical conclusion humans will make themselves extinct. However, how many people that want to be childfree, are actually trying to save the planet? A tiny tiny fraction id say. But it is a point of view I have heard from some people online, although I dont know if its actually done in practice.



Of course. LIFE is complicated. Some people who have children may regret it, just like people who don't have children may regret it later on in life. Both are true statements. Again, each to their own. It's a wonderful thing that people are alive in 2021 where there is actually some choice to be had.



It is not my claim at all, we have evolved over millions of years from apes that lived in trees. We, humans, exist more so by accident but also by hardcoded biological urges that in some way are still with us today. Why does it feel good to have sex, for example? That is nature telling us to do it again and again because it wants to reproduce. However, today we have contraception and the like to counter that natural consequence of having sex. A couple wanting to have a child-free life in 1921 would have found it incredibly difficult than a couple in 2021.

It is done in practice. One of my best friends has chosen not to have kids for this reason. She lives a very sustainable lifestyle, and the impact of having one child is higher than any other activity we do. I don't think it is an extreme anymore. The science is there to show the negative impact our growing population is having on the planet.

It is each to their own. Which is why I don't understand the need for people with children to question someone's decision not to have a child.
In my case, I argue I have never made a decision to have a child (I didn't decide not to have them) as my default position was childfree. I am not maternal, I have no desire to hold a baby etc. That isn't wanting "hassle". It is not wanting a baby. The "hassle" had nothing to do with my decision.

JoChervil

markodaly wrote: »

It is not my claim at all, we have evolved over millions of years from apes that lived in trees. We, humans, exist more so by accident but also by hardcoded biological urges that in some way are still with us today.

People are not animals. As you said. We are humans and contrary to animals we can be creative in an abstract way.

Bringing kids to the world is an act of creation. But it is only one kind of creation, while people can be creative in many other ways. Someone can create a great place to live, or beautiful garden. Or someone can introduce new inventions and solutions at work. Or someone can create pure art like painting, films, books or musics, which can be extremely rewarding and which can bring happiness to millions of others listening, reading or watching it.

I believe that in future only people, who love kids will have them and it will be a win-win situation for everyone involved. Happy kids, happy parents and happy other people realising their lives in their way.

magicbastarder

the 'nature says X' argument reminds me of the lazy 'it's adam and eve, not adam and steve' argument that you'd have occasionally heard in relation to same sex marriage and related arguments.

pointing to nature as an example is a foolhardy exploit. nature frequently contradicts itself, and is not a mutually coherent set of rules. and it also does not map to right/wrong either.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime

I mentioned this before but for the sake of the discussion taking place here now,

I started a thread about kids before and also added a poll with 4 choices. Here are the results

I have kids and think it's great - 184 votes (40%)
I have kids and regret it - 21 votes (5%)
I don't have kids and think it's great - 228 votes (49%)
I don't have kids and regret it - 28 votes (6%)

I'm pro not having kids etc but even I was amazed at these results from the forum users

dobman88

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

I mentioned this before but for the sake of the discussion taking place here now,

I started a thread about kids before and also added a poll with 4 choices. Here are the results

I have kids and think it's great - 184 votes (40%)
I have kids and regret it - 21 votes (5%)
I don't have kids and think it's great - 228 votes (49%)
I don't have kids and regret it - 28 votes (6%)

I'm pro not having kids etc but even I was amazed at these results from the forum users

The only surprising thing in that for me is the amount of people who have kids. I think it's a bit counter productive for them to read/post on a childfree forum as they usually wouldn't understand or agree with the decision to not have children which takes away from the "safe space" that this forum is supposed to be.

Hopefully it doesn't go that way, but there has been some posts to suggest it will already.

Faith

dobman88 wrote: »

The only surprising thing in that for me is the amount of people who have kids. I think it's a bit counter productive for them to read/post on a childfree forum as they usually wouldn't understand or agree with the decision to not have children which takes away from the "safe space" that this forum is supposed to be.

Hopefully it doesn't go that way, but there has been some posts to suggest it will already.

I think the poll came from a thread posted on After Hours a few years ago, not this forum

YellowLead

dobman88 wrote: »

The only surprising thing in that for me is the amount of people who have kids. I think it's a bit counter productive for them to read/post on a childfree forum as they usually wouldn't understand or agree with the decision to not have children which takes away from the "safe space" that this forum is supposed to be.

Hopefully it doesn't go that way, but there has been some posts to suggest it will already.

I’m super surprised it’s not locked down like the dating or sexuality forums. I mean locking them down kind of means they suck because then nobody really posts in the because they’re don’t know they exist. But still.....

dobman88

Faith wrote: »

I think the poll came from a thread posted on After Hours a few years ago, not this forum

Ah. Fair enough. Thought they'd had a poll on a thread I'd missed here. Ty

magicbastarder

regardless, you're not going to get any sort of useful poll on boards, unless you break it down by age. asking a 25 year old if they have kids and what their attitude is, is very different from asking a 40 year old.

markodaly

JoChervil wrote: »

Why does it feel good to drink alcohol. Is it a nature telling us to be alcoholics?

Or why does eating feel so good? Obese people are often not healthy and if we indulge we would become unhealthy.

Is it what nature wants for us?

With alcohol, well for some people it makes them feel bad but drinking alcohol does release endorphins in the brain, which triggers a pleasure and reward loop.

https://www.livescience.com/36084-alcohol-releases-endorphins-brain.html#:~:text=Drinking%20alcohol%20triggers%20the%20release,to%20a%20small%20new%20study.

Eating some foods feels good because we are hard-wired for it. We are not built with modern food production in mind, that is why some foods taste so good to us, like sugar or carbs which were in rare supply thousands of years ago.

Humans need to eat to live. Humans need to have sex to reproduce. We are hardwired to do both (eat and sex). This is not exactly a controversial statement.

markodaly

magicbastarder wrote: »

the 'nature says X' argument reminds me of the lazy 'it's adam and eve, not adam and steve' argument that you'd have occasionally heard in relation to same sex marriage and related arguments.

pointing to nature as an example is a foolhardy exploit. nature frequently contradicts itself, and is not a mutually coherent set of rules. and it also does not map to right/wrong either.

Correct, but then on the other extreme, one can also wrongly deny that humans have any hardwiring built into them as if we are a white piece of paper, unshackled from billions of years of evolution.

It is equally lazy to suggest everyone has absolute free will and nature has no interference whatsoever in peoples lives and the choices they make.

Nodferatu

Was never really an option or a decision, I've known my whole life I had zero interest in children. I have no interest in wanting to be a parent and spending my life dedicated to raising a baby/child right to way to adulthood.
I think if your going to bring a life into the world you better be damned sure your gonna love and nurture and spoil that child and do right by them.
I'm happy to be free, I have total freedom, I'm not tied down. I have money, I have time. Our dog and cats are our children. And that's the way we both love it.

markodaly

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

I mentioned this before but for the sake of the discussion taking place here now,

I started a thread about kids before and also added a poll with 4 choices. Here are the results

I have kids and think it's great - 184 votes (40%)
I have kids and regret it - 21 votes (5%)
I don't have kids and think it's great - 228 votes (49%)
I don't have kids and regret it - 28 votes (6%)

I'm pro not having kids etc but even I was amazed at these results from the forum users

I think the poll is about right, tbh.

Most people who do have kids are not angst-ridden, stressed, hating life and are depressed with the fact they have kids
Most people who do NOT have kids are perfectly fine with their decision and happy out with their choice and live life the way they want to.

Only a small subset on both sides have any regret for their decision. But as has been said, many people in the 'I dont have kids' question may well be young, free and single types.

markodaly

cee_jay wrote: »

It is done in practice. One of my best friends has chosen not to have kids for this reason. She lives a very sustainable lifestyle, and the impact of having one child is higher than any other activity we do. I don't think it is an extreme anymore. The science is there to show the negative impact our growing population is having on the planet.

It is each to their own. Which is why I don't understand the need for people with children to question someone's decision not to have a child.
In my case, I argue I have never made a decision to have a child (I didn't decide not to have them) as my default position was childfree. I am not maternal, I have no desire to hold a baby etc. That isn't wanting "hassle". It is not wanting a baby. The "hassle" had nothing to do with my decision.

Fair enough, but ill say one thing. It goes on from the 'other side' as well. When I told my extended network about having my first, almost all without fail went on about the sleepless nights, the stress of it, the nappy changing. Many of my friends who don't have kids especially were eager to tell me about their sleep-ins and stress-free lifestyle.

I found it all a bit odd, to be honest, until I talked to other would-be parents about it.

People I think, seem to try to extenuate the negative of ones life choices, be it having a child or not having a child.

For every comment about people choosing a child-free life and getting a 'sure who is going to look after you when you are older' remark, there are people who will pass comments to new parents about 'get your sleep in now before....'

Maybe it's an Irish thing as well, we can be a negative judgmental bunch.
Each to their own. I couldn't give two ****s if a friend of mine choose not to have kids, or have five.

Tony EH

markodaly wrote: »

Fair enough, but ill say one thing. It goes on from the 'other side' as well. When I told my extended network about having my first, almost all without fail went on about the sleepless nights, the stress of it, the nappy changing. Many of my friends who don't have kids especially were eager to tell me about their sleep-ins and stress-free lifestyle.

Yeh. They're just the cliches that everyone thinks about regarding kids.

On the other hand, the "why don't you want kids" crowd ask it like there's something wrong with you.

markodaly

Tony EH wrote: »

Yeh. They're just the cliches that everyone thinks about regarding kids.

On the other hand, the "why don't you want kids" crowd ask it like there's something wrong with you.

You missed the point.

Many people are just negative and judgemental. It doesn't matter if you tell someone you are having a child or telling them you never want to have one, they are equally likely to come out with that type of negative comment about your choice.

And, no not everyone thinks about children that way. Maybe the negative types do, but not everyone.

Tony EH

markodaly wrote: »

You missed the point.

On the contrary, I didn't miss "the point" at all. EVERYONE will talk about "sleepless nights, the stress of it, the nappy changing" whether they're having/had a kid or not.

However, only one side will ever ask "why don't you want kids" in that accusatory fashion.

Sunny Disposition

It’s true, you do get a lot of people telling you how hard raising a child is going to be, gets totally exaggerated to the point people think it’s much more difficult than it actually is.
Am sure you get some idiots also telling you that you better have kids or you’re going to be miserable, which for course isn’t true either.
People are going to spout nonsense, best not to get too affected by it.

Sunny Disposition

Tony EH wrote: »

On the contrary, I didn't miss "the point" at all. EVERYONE will talk about "sleepless nights, the stress of it, the nappy changing" whether they're having/had a kid or not.

However, only one side will ever ask "why don't you want kids" in that accusatory fashion.

Not everyone talks like that, some people will tell you how lucky you are, congratulate you, tell you to enjoy parenthood. Many others, who almost never mean any harm, tell you you’ll never sleep again and won’t have a cent for 25 years.
But you shouldn’t get too affected by this or anyone saying you should want kids, people probably usually don’t mean any harm, and if they do it says it all about them and not anyone’s decision to be child free.

YellowLead

Tony EH wrote: »

On the contrary, I didn't miss "the point" at all. EVERYONE will talk about "sleepless nights, the stress of it, the nappy changing" whether they're having/had a kid or not.

However, only one side will ever ask "why don't you want kids" in that accusatory fashion.

It’s not only one side that will be accusatory. I remember a child free friend commenting when having gotten the news that a 28 year old married friend was pregnant ‘oh my god, what’s WRONG with her, what a waste of a young life, why have kids in your 20s’ as if it was the weirdest thing in the world and said pregnant ladies life was about to end. Trust me there is as much smugness and choice bashing that comes from the child free side.

Some people, as has been previously pointed out, are just negative and egotistical and will always look down on others because of their choices, regardless of what they are. I know this forum is for child free by choice - but I couldn’t let that one go, that only parents are accusatory of choices, because I have seen both at play in equal measure.