Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Locotastic

hynesie08 wrote: »

No, it's not.

How so? We're almost into our 4th month of 2021 and so far it's been level 5 all the way with no end in sight.

2021 is worse, we spent between March and June in total lockdown last year.

But after that there was a much clearer plan of steps and a timeline. Hell I went on days out and even to pubs would you believe during the summer, even had some staycations.

Some secondary school students haven't seen the inside of a school since they broke up for Xmas, it will be mid April before they do fingers crossed and all that.

Those students have missed more time this year already than they did over the whole of 2020.

I can't even get a Smear test done with my GP this year when I had the option to last year. It is worse and more restrictive now than it ever was.

walus

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The thing is, we convinced ourselves lockdown is the only medicine for Covid.

Turns out, there is no proof the medicine actually works long term.

Countries who never took or stopped taking the medicine are doing just fine

Well, there are now scientific studies that report of a lack of evidence that lockdowns actually save lives and protect the vulnerable.

The rationale behind lockdowns wears thinner and thinner with every passing month. We are well past the point of diminishing returns if there ever were any (i.e. number of cases, which one would argue are irrelevant)

Arturo Delgado

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Last night took the biscuit. I have never been so miserable about the country. Living in an open prison. Economic ruin on the horizon. Rent prices about the go sky higher because of no building. Not being promised our Pre-Covid freedoms back again. Pubs closing, restaurants closing, shops closing, no jobs. Eastern Europeans are leaving. Nanny Staters gaining even more influence to meddle with our lives. Weather's ****e. No political options for change. Our sports teams are ****e. No hope. No future. Its the 80s again.

Easy, Tiger, take a deep breath. But I agree with all of what you are saying. The only solution is mass protest. But the majority I guess, are obeying and will continue to obey. What is happening is that NPHET is the Grima Wormtongue to the Government's King Theoden. Poisoning and influencing at all times. Mass protest may seem folly, but how else are the government going to see that people are at the end of the rope with this. The hospital numbers are falling, and falling steadily to very manageable levels (in terms of Covid-19). But the narrative that there are hundreds of cases every day is pushed and pushed vehemently by the media at the behest of the twin threats of NPHET and Government. Easing the 5km restrictions is laughable. Most don't follow them. Most have to go to work, no option to work at home even if they can.
We're at the crossroads now and if no map is forthcoming I, for one, will start exercising my right to protest.

JDxtra

Too many people in this country enjoying what they think is a free bar, listening to NPHET and the Government like nodding dogs - and not thinking about the massive hangover they'll have afterwards, not to mention the whopper bill they'll be landed with.

Stormyteacup

Rosita wrote: »

Don't know that. Wasn't privy to be decision.

Ah - well for me, therein lies the problem. Zero questioning of laws and restrictions. Forgive me if I’m wrong but it was you who equated breaking of current restrictions to selling drugs? I feel that entitles me to draw comparison to laws that were abhorrently wrong, but laws nonetheless... people having to sit at the back of the bus on account of their skin colour, women forced out of work because they married, non-heretosexual couples precluded from having the same rights as heterosexual couples. All laws that still had support in a minority of the general public, as disgusting as it is to us now.

All obviously wrong in hindsight and admittedly with far wider-ranging consequences than current pandemic laws. But may serve to remind some that there have been, and continue to be, laws that are absolutely nonsensical.

Locotastic

Arturo Delgado wrote: »

We're at the crossroads now and if no map is forthcoming I, for one, will start exercising my right to protest.

The problem being that the media has it spun now that protestors are all tinfoil hat weirdos or extremists and in protesting they risk getting their name and address in the headline news of the national state broadcaster.

I just cannot believe that those who have seen their businesses decimated have not come together and opened up en mass in protest, I mean they can't all be shut down again at once and eventually nobody will even try to stop them.

I would absolutely support them and I will continue to live as I see fit and not as some face of government tells me.

Arturo Delgado

Locotastic wrote: »

The problem being that the media has it spun now that protestors are all tinfoil hat weirdos or extremists and in protesting they risk getting their name and address in the headline news of the national state broadcaster.

I just cannot believe that those who have seen their businesses decimated have not come together and opened up en mass in protest, I mean they can't all be shut down again at once and eventually nobody will even try to stop them.

Exactly, disagree with the narrative and you're branded as an extremist. I really think many are asleep to the economic ruin we are facing. It will make 2008 and post that, like a tea party. Certainly, austerity is a word that will sit snugly with Covid in the months and years ahead.

scamalert

Locotastic wrote: »

The problem being that the media has it spun now that protestors are all tinfoil hat weirdos or extremists and in protesting they risk getting their name and address in the headline news of the national state broadcaster.

I just cannot believe that those who have seen their businesses decimated have not come together and opened up en mass in protest, I mean they can't all be shut down again at once and eventually nobody will even try to stop them.

good insight, once you look at history you would think how brainwashed people had to be yet it shows very little if takes less then a year to make some believe that smashing someones head and breaking some idiotic pandemic rules is the same to question or compare :cool:

Locotastic

scamalert wrote: »

good insight, once you look at history you would think how brainwashed people had to be yet it shows very little if takes less then a year to make some believe that smashing someones head and breaking some idiotic pandemic rules is the same to question or compare :cool:

This scares me more than covid ever will, the mental conditioning of people.

discostu1

Rosita wrote: »

Would be good if you cited a source for this. My understanding is that there are a number of different sources for Texas figures with some variation.

Hi,
https://txdshs.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/ed483ecd702b4298ab01e8b9cafc8b83
CDC figures are largely the same albeit not as up to date so there is no doubt about the figures as such, the question would be why is it vaccination is it literally that the sick and vulnerable are either dead, cocooned or vaccinated, but that would account for the fatality drop not the number of cases and the positivity dropping
There seems to be a danger on this thread that it descends into a political issue i.e Open/CLose to suit my own political thoughts.
If Texas has done this and it has improved lets see why the same as if Mississippi has done the same and it improves or has gotten worse lets see why

hynesie08

Locotastic wrote: »

How so? We're almost into our 4th month of 2021 and so far it's been level 5 all the way with no end in sight.

2021 is worse, we spent between March and June in total lockdown last year.

But after that there was a much clearer plan of steps and a timeline. Hell I went on days out and even to pubs would you believe during the summer, even had some staycations.

Some secondary school students haven't seen the inside of a school since they broke up for Xmas, it will be mid April before they do fingers crossed and all that.

Those students have missed more time this year already than they did over the whole of 2020.

I can't even get a Smear test done with my GP this year when I had the option to last year. It is worse and more restrictive now than it ever was.

We spent 42 weeks of last year somewhere between level 3.whatever depending on where you are and level 5. So far this year we've spent ten weeks at level 5 (and a less strict one than last March) and we're only looking at restrictions going one way.

If in 8 months we've bounced in and out of level 5, with businesses openining every day hoping they can open tomorrow, then you can say 2021 was worse than 2020. But unlike last years 3 month lockdown, this one is the end, not the beginning.

Stormyteacup

Locotastic wrote: »

The problem being that the media has it spun now that protestors are all tinfoil hat weirdos or extremists and in protesting they risk getting their name and address in the headline news of the national state broadcaster.

I just cannot believe that those who have seen their businesses decimated have not come together and opened up en mass in protest, I mean they can't all be shut down again at once and eventually nobody will even try to stop them.

I would absolutely support them and I will continue to live as I see fit and not as some face of government tells me.

Agree with you, but as a member of a reasonably tight-knit community - and a reasonably sized one, I can understand to an extent. I think it’s really not government/police repercussions they are wary of, it’s the group-think community forums. These forums are still, even now, taking photographs and pointing out the evils of those congregating for coffee - the fear of being perceived as being careless of your community’s wellbeing is justified. Only for the fear of being labelled as being careless of the health of the vulnerable, I’d say there would be a much more vocal campaign to open up. Local SMEs are cut off at the knees.

VeryWise

The problem is a large number of people now see the restrictions as normal and virtuous. The lack of political opposition and media questions about restrictions that make no sense is a disgrace in a supposed democracy. The damage to kids missing vital social development in school or people missing other health screenings is just not considered any more. I don’t know what is behind this mindless lockdown, there are tons of ways to control the spread of Covid without burning the house down. I just don’t understand how a well educated country slipped into this mess

VeryWise

VeryWise wrote: »

The problem is a large number of people now see the restrictions as normal and virtuous. The lack of political opposition and media questions about restrictions that make no sense is a disgrace in a supposed democracy. The damage to kids missing vital social development in school or people missing other health screenings is just not considered any more. I don’t know what is behind this mindless lockdown, there are tons of ways to control the spread of Covid without burning the house down. I just don’t understand how a well educated country slipped into this mess

Graham Brady has warned about these restrictions becoming normalised. The Irish Mirror seems to believe that level 1 is comparable to life in Australia where there are practically zero domestic restrictions (Victoria is a bit behind the other states, but it recently scrapped masks in all shops). Level 1 is heavily restricted. It includes mask wearing and social distancing as well as capacity restrictions etc.

A possible answer to how 'a well educated country slipped into this mess' is the lack of functioning Fourth Estate. It's no coincidence that the restrictions in Ireland are among the harshest in the world in the light of the media that exists in Ireland. And there's no proper opposition in Dáil Éireann either. That's another problem.

Locotastic

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Agree with you, but as a member of a reasonably tight-knit community - and a reasonably sized one, I can understand to an extent. I think it’s really not government/police repercussions they are wary of, it’s the group-think community forums. These forums are still, even now, taking photographs and pointing out the evils of those congregating for coffee - the fear of being perceived as being careless of your community’s wellbeing is justified. Only for the fear of being labelled as being careless of the health of the vulnerable, I’d say there would be a much more vocal campaign to open up. Local SMEs are cut off at the knees.

Those people have always existed and always will, the only thing this has done is elevated them in their ideal of righteousness and imagined high moral standards.

Nosey control freaks are best ignored, people know them for who they are and thankfully they are a natural minority.

Great spirits have always encountered opposition from mediocre minds - Einstein

jusvi2001

VeryWise wrote: »

The problem is a large number of people now see the restrictions as normal and virtuous. The lack of political opposition and media questions about restrictions that make no sense is a disgrace in a supposed democracy. The damage to kids missing vital social development in school or people missing other health screenings is just not considered any more. I don’t know what is behind this mindless lockdown, there are tons of ways to control the spread of Covid without burning the house down. I just don’t understand how a well educated country slipped into this mess

Totally agree with you. we have useless bunch of politicians who lacks touch with reality. i couldn't believe reading that some of them are asking government to extend the 5 km restriction to 10 km or 20km. it is real farce.they couldn't even ask government to allow travel within county. i am sure that next week they will increase the 5 km restriction to 10km or 20 km and present it as a huge favour to the ordinary people.

Rosita

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Forgive me if I’m wrong but it was you who equated breaking of current restrictions to selling drugs?

I'll forgive you but I did not equate them. I gave an example of where people break the law and feel entitled to do so but it still doesn't nullify the law. I made no reference either way to an equivalence (many people think drugs are great so let's keep an open mind.)

A less knicker-twisting example might a stretch of 50k speed limit out Dublin on the N7 when you can drive at 80 on a windy narrow country road. It's absurd in the context of a direct comparison but it doesn't entitle someone to exceed the speed limit on the N7.

Locotastic

Rosita wrote: »

I'll forgive you but I did not equate them. I gave an example of where people break the law and feel entitled to do so but it still doesn't nullify the law. I made no reference either way to an equivalence (many people think drugs are great so let's keep an open mind.)

A less knicker-twisting example might a stretch of 50k speed limit out Dublin on the N7 when you can drive at 80 on a windy narrow country road. It's absurd in the context of a direct comparison but it doesn't entitle someone to exceed the speed limit on the N7.

So the reasons for the laws that you pointed out are quite clear, what is the reason for a 5k limit on exercise? What sense does it make?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thank you.

Based on what Dr Bhattacharya said, do you think Professor Nolan is right to be constantly concerned about any and every slight rise is case numbers?

He is not right to be concerned in every slight rise, but not because of what the good Dr Bhattacharya said. The hspc guidance is clear, it should not be an issue here, however even if it were we very quickly went from 500 to 6000 cases in December when only symptomatic people were being tested. He is not right to be concerned with the latest small shift because there has been a 20% reduction in proportion of positive samples in the past week

Rosita

Locotastic wrote: »

So the reasons for the laws that you pointed out are quite clear, what is the reason for a 5k limit on exercise? What sense does it make?

I presume the reason is to discourage the mingling of people when not necessary? Is that not obvious?

As for 5k - 6 laps is 30k.That should be enough for many people. The actual distance restriction is irrelevant in that sense. You could do a 20 mile walk and not be 5k from your home.

walus

VeryWise wrote: »

The problem is a large number of people now see the restrictions as normal and virtuous. The lack of political opposition and media questions about restrictions that make no sense is a disgrace in a supposed democracy. The damage to kids missing vital social development in school or people missing other health screenings is just not considered any more. I don’t know what is behind this mindless lockdown, there are tons of ways to control the spread of Covid without burning the house down. I just don’t understand how a well educated country slipped into this mess

When you have a complex and nonlinear system of a pandemic reduced by ‘experts’ to very few factors (i.e. number of cases) you have to question the credibility of the advice. Especially that this single factor, almost on its own, is now being used to dictate how we live our lives. If this is not utterly idiotic I don’t know what is.

Locotastic

Rosita wrote: »

I presume the reason is to discourage the mingling of people when not necessary? Is that not obvious?

As for 5k - 6 laps is 30k.That should be enough for many people. The actual distance restriction is irrelevant in that sense. You could do a 20 mile walk and not be 5k from your home.

I can mingle 1km from home or 100km from home, it's a nonsense limit and for some reason doesn't apply if I'm going to work or doing something otherwise deemed essential by someone.

6 laps, are you joking would you like people to be treated no better than prisoners walking aimlessly around a prison yard? Is that what your perception of 'enough' has been reduced to?

Tenzor07

jusvi2001 wrote: »

Totally agree with you. we have useless bunch of politicians who lacks touch with reality. i couldn't believe reading that some of them are asking government to extend the 5 km restriction to 10 km or 20km. it is real farce.they couldn't even ask government to allow travel within county. i am sure that next week they will increase the 5 km restriction to 10km or 20 km and present it as a huge favour to the ordinary people.

There's an element of "You get what you deserve" with our Politicians/Government.... They are responding to their constituents mainly, and so long as a majority of the general public support them and the restrictions then that's exactly what we will all get... restrictions... with maybe some easing towards the end of the summer.. However the UK who are far far ahead of Ireland on vaccinations aren't in a great hurry to lift the restrictions... but at least they have a plan...

Increasing the 5k to 10 or 20k is a pointless waste of time... "Let them eat crumbs...".... May as well be 6.8km or 14.2km, it achieves nothing, won't save anyone or won't change 600 cases a day to 100 cases a day either... it's a complete joke...

RGS

The rumour that we can go 10km from 5 April is nothing more than a " heres a sweet little boy" from our superiors.

If NPHET think that is going to appease the masses they certainly havent read the room.

As I have said regularly it's easy to enforce restrictions on people when you are not affected by your decisions.

PTH2009

RGS wrote: »

The rumour that we can go 10km from 5 April is nothing more than a " heres a sweet little boy" from our superiors.

If NPHET think that is going to appease the masses they certainly havent read the room.

As I have said regularly it's easy to enforce restrictions on people when you are not affected by your decisions.

Yet again NPHET are getting to much input on decisions

The numbers are not going down and prob won't but we have the vaccines which the supply will hopefully gear up in the next few weeks. Variants Variants is the new excuse and they dont want to open up society cause of it

Meanwhile the UK and most of Europe are getting ready to reopen society and take the risk but here its 'no no no cant be opening this and that'

ypres5

PTH2009 wrote: »

Yet again NPHET are getting to much input on decisions

The numbers are not going down and prob won't but we have the vaccines which the supply will hopefully gear up in the next few weeks. Variants Variants is the new excuse and they dont want to open up society cause of it

Meanwhile the UK and most of Europe are getting ready to reopen society and take the risk but here its 'no no no cant be opening this and that'

And then you have people here telling you to walk 5km 6 times over. God knows when this is going to end

Posted about this another thread, but think people might in this thread might find it interesting too. I just came across this article: https://www.centralfifetimes.com/news/19189789.face-mask-rules-scotland-mandatory-coverings-eased/. In Scotland level 0 includes mask wearing.

"According to the Scottish Government’s website, “in all levels and settings”, we should follow “advice and requirements such as on the use of face coverings”.

Speaking on March 16 when she outlined Scotland’s route map out of the pandemic, the First Minister said that it is “hoped” that we could reach “at least Level 0” by the end of June.

Currently, guidance under Level 0 includes the mandatory wearing of face coverings on public transport and shops – unless you are exempt.

However, Ms Sturgeon said that “we hope we will be able to get beyond even that”, with a “view to restoring as much normality as possible”."

It's all rather vague, and I don't know what she means by 'we hope to be able to get beyond even that'. But 'as much normality as possible' seems to me to suggest that 'complete normality' isn't possible. But then 'we hope to be able to get beyond even that' (beyond level 0, I take it she means) suggests that it might be. It's vague.

The good thing is that there are a lot of countries in the world. I don't think a lot of people fancy Ronan Glynn's 'degree of normality' or Nicole Sturgeon's 'as much normality as possible' if it includes what Dr Mary Ramsay of PHE says are low level restrictions that people have got used to, i.e. mask wearing and social distancing.

Locotastic

More and more people will refuse to wear masks if there is no reason to do it (as in the numbers of people dying or getting seriously ill is decreasing).

Interesting to read about the mask slackers and the anti mask league of the 1918 pandemic.

I just can't accept how easy we have complied with all of these restrictions, even when some made little sense.

The thoughts of a new normal fills me with dread and I sincerely hope that people take a personal stand against prolonged and unnecessary regulations.

CalamariFritti

Deleted User wrote: »

... A possible answer to how 'a well educated country slipped into this mess' is the lack of functioning Fourth Estate. It's no coincidence that the restrictions in Ireland are among the harshest in the world in the light of the media that exists in Ireland. ...

I would go as far as saying that the so-called 4th estate caused this mess to a large degree. Both in preventing a sober assessment of the initial threat and then later in the permanent and ongoing scaremongering.

FintanMcluskey

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I would go as far as saying that the so-called 4th estate caused this mess to a large degree. Both in preventing a sober assessment of the initial threat and then later in the permanent and ongoing scaremongering.

The link between democracy and journalism has never been so evident.

With the death of functional journalism, comes the death of democracy