Relaxation of Restrictions, Part X *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

TonyMaloney

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The World Economic Forum seem to believe that this 'new normal' isn't temporary:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/02/the-great-reset-global-digital-sustainability/

"Individuals, much as we each yearn to return to life as it was before the pandemic, have to adjust to a life that has greater restrictions on what we can do, and most importantly, in harmony with nature."

Do you remember voting for WEF or Chandran Nair to decide how you live your life?

If it's in everybody's interest then why is Dr Mary Ramsay of PHE predicting that masks and social distancing will be kept in place for years to come? Why is there no level 0 in the Irish Government's 'living with covid plan'? Why is Glynn increasingly talking about 'a degree of normality'? It's not surprising people are concerned. And in Ireland there's no opposition, which makes it even more complicated.

Why is Eamon Ryan conspiring with Martin and Varadkar to steal your freedom?
I always thought he was just a bit of a wally, but apparently he's a sinister authoritarian nightmare.

It's mad that we've gone from a country that recently legalised abortion, divorce and gay marriage to a dystopian authoritarian hellscape in one short year.

RGS

Graham wrote: »

Public health. It's no secret, there's a pretty big clue in the name.

Yes I agree NPHET are public health team but there is more to a country than one issue and that's where government are failing.
We elect TDS to form a government not to cede control to a one issue body.

Our public health team have imposed one of the biggest restrictions on the people aided by an abject cabinet.
Even our outdoors sports like tennis and golf have been closed for longer than any other country. In fact our golf courses are closed 3 times longer than Scotland.

Whatsisname

discostu1 wrote: »

Ok a lot of heated debate on here, firstly I have followed all the rules and will continue to do so. To me the most interesting development was what is happening in the States where they have had huge numbers of deaths and cases. I have relations in lots of different states.
17 days ago Texas said we are re opening, not partially, fully no mandatory masks etc you might remember Biden said this was "Neanderthal thinking "....their cases have dropped, now that may well be due to a lot of people being vaccinated roughly a third of Americans are though some states are ahead of others. I haven't examined the Data fully but I always understood that we would see an impact of any change roughly 2 weeks after the event I am NOT saying we should go down this route but it is interesting that where I thought we would see a lot of dead Texans and hospitals overwhelmed it does not appear to be the case

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9410481/Texas-COVID-numbers-fall-17th-consecutive-day-following-reopening.html

I came across this thread on Twitter the other day showing the frenzy created by the media and politicians in response to Texas removing restrictions. Some real low life journalists writing articles like “Texas and Mississippi are battling it out to see who can kill more with covid”. It really shows the toxicity of social media in driving panic and hysteria throughout this whole pandemic and I’m aware it’s ironic for me to show that with a Twitter thread.

[url]

https://twitter.com/ianmsc/status/1374769436591226883?s=21[/url]

Locotastic

TonyMaloney wrote: »

It's mad that we've gone from a country that recently legalised abortion, divorce and gay marriage to a dystopian authoritarian hellscape in one short year.

This government and NPHET in their never ending restrictions have treated people as if they are irresponsible and stupid, incapable of living and deciding for ourselves how and what we do.

Short lockdowns work, experts in epidemiology have stated that long term lockdowns don't have the same effect. So while a lockdown may have been necessary at certain points it should not be the only option and nor should it be prolonged beyond what's needed.

We all know the risks and we need to consider the possibility that our governments approach at this stage is not the best for the country as a whole or the citizens.

We are the same people who were the driving force behind those changes you mentioned, how long do you think it will be before the government is told to stick their new normal?

scamalert

Stormyteacup wrote: »

We will get there eventually, and it will be the same way we are slowly and painfully getting to a point where government are being forced to ease 5km restriction. If there were no polls/social media unrest/articles in media questioning the need for and compliance to the 5km, the people making decisions on restrictions would quite happily leave the 5km in place.

Once we start getting some freedoms back, the pressure will be applied for the next restriction the majority are calling to be lifted.

Those that believe the general public will comply with wearing masks and keeping 2m away from each other indefinitely are deluded. The opposition will be from the people. Most of us would welcome a more climate-friendly way of living but there’s no way it will come about so long as people watch the rich get richer while oppressive restrictions are mandated for everyone else. What great change for the better has come about without bringing the people with you?

this here is correct, but with that said its ridicilous to think gov implemented this in a blink of an eye and were talking about a need to fight this fudge to get it removed that is most worrying thing, as another poster mentioned why theres 0 fck all attempt been made to increase capacity in hospitals, why is there no mention of being back to normal, instead crap about theres more to come nonsense.


if you told anyone 2 years back that people will need to worry showing their papers to guards to let em travel to store, youd be deemed consipracy lunatic or someone who thinks it only could be true in likes of NK.


yet all this happened and barely theres any question behind the logic, that in essence put restrictions on every person.

_Kaiser_

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Why is Eamon Ryan conspiring with Martin and Varadkar to steal your freedom?
I always thought he was just a bit of a wally, but apparently he's a sinister authoritarian nightmare.

It's mad that we've gone from a country that recently legalised abortion, divorce and gay marriage to a dystopian authoritarian hellscape in one short year.

You may joke (and I agree that some of the more outlandish theories are exactly that!) but the truth is that we have given up a LOT in the last year and, despite the actual evidence of a years worth of data that proves very few of our population are at any significant risk from CV-19, they are very slow to react and refine the level of restrictions accordingly.
But there HAVE been changes.. the Greens have taken the opportunity to push thorough their ridiculous immigration plan that will only increase pressures on housing, half of Dublin's streets has been relined to restrict cars, and other issues are being side-lined or quietly pushed through without proper scrutiny because of the obsession with Covid.

We've been in Level 5 for months and cases continue to go up and down, but the actual deaths continue to be low (and let's not forget that people died pre-Covid too even though we don't see that on the news every night). Now what... level 5.5, 6, 11??

As the famous saying goes, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

Rosita

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I guess it depends on one's personal values and perspective. Going slightly O/T for this one..

I've never been in trouble with the law in my life and can count on one hand the number of times I've interacted with a Garda in the last decade, and I pay my taxes, work hard and generally try to do the right thing.

But I also know that I live in a country of corruption, waste, and incompetence at all levels of Government and State, and that we've had an increasingly weak procession of Governments in recent times as a result of the egos of the men at the top (Enda, Leo and now Micheal) whose only goal was to get/stay in that top job. It's going on long before them of course but this has an effect on everything in my life - housing, medical costs and access, insurance, my rights as a single father, and so on. I am not blind to these things just because they are how they are.

Also I was raised to analyse and evaluate a situation based on my knowledge, experience and values. I don't do social media like Twitter or Facebook so whatever is trending or seen as the "accepted norm" on there means very little to me (but does to people like Leo which is also a big part of the problem).

As such I will absolutely recognise and call out when I don't think something makes sense or is wrong. I may myself be wrong, but in a democracy a constructive debate is a healthy thing. It's a dangerous road to think we should accept rules or restrictions blindly because some TD (who is generally no more qualified than you or I) says so, or because a group of HSE officials are trying to cover their asses from the fact that they've done nothing to address the problems with our health service in decades.

Ultimately though, the aforementioned needs of society and the economy will dictate when restrictions end, not Micheal Martin or NPHET.

That's fine but still plenty of scope for people to exercise within 5k for a period of time.

TonyMaloney

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Why is Eamon Ryan conspiring with Martin and Varadkar to steal your freedom?
I always thought he was just a bit of a wally, but apparently he's a sinister authoritarian nightmare.

It's mad that we've gone from a country that recently legalised abortion, divorce and gay marriage to a dystopian authoritarian hellscape in one short year.

Our freedom is gone. The question is whether or not it will be returned. The fact that there's no level 0 in the plan points to level 1 being 'the degree of normality' Glynn keeps talking about.

This isn't the right thread for it, but a lot of people are worried about the Great Reset. They argue that a 'new normal' is being ushered in, such as the one described in that article, which would result in people being restricted in what they can do, again as described in that article.

Locotastic

Rosita wrote: »

That's fine but still plenty of scope for people to exercise within 5k for a period of time.

Of course, if they want to - but it's a no from me.

In a few years time when there are endless court cases and tribunals about this scandal of people's livelihoods, education (and let's not forget all of the untreated and undiagnosed health problems that aren't covid) at least we'll be safe in the knowledge that some people followed all the rules blindly and unquestionably.

Rosita

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

As the famous saying goes, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

Never quite got this one. It assumes no variables.

Stormyteacup

Rosita wrote: »

That's fine but still plenty of scope for people to exercise within 5k for a period of time.

Plenty of scope within 2km also, why was it increased to 5km?

Multipass

Rosita wrote: »

That's fine but still plenty of scope for people to exercise within 5k for a period of time.

Everyone should get giant hamster wheels and we could bring it down to 0km. Anything to be safe.

Baggly

Deleted User wrote: »

Our freedom is gone. The question is whether or not it will be returned. The fact that there's no level 0 in the plan points to level 1 being 'the degree of normality' Glynn keeps talking about.

This isn't the right thread for it, but a lot of people are worried about the Great Reset. They argue that a 'new normal' is being ushered in, such as the one described in that article, which would result in people being restricted in what they can do, again as described in that article.

Mod

You are right, this isnt the thread for it. Leave it there thanks.

Locotastic

Multipass wrote: »

Everyone should get giant hamster wheels and we could bring it down to 0km. Anything to be safe.

Hook it up to a generator and I'm sure we could qualify for a green retrofit grant.

_Kaiser_

Rosita wrote: »

Never quite got this one. It assumes no variables.

What variables would you consider?

Rising case numbers? Doesn't - and has never - mean(t) much unless there's a significant increase in serious illness or deaths which there hasn't been. Those numbers have (thankfully) remained exceptionally low throughout , remembering we have a population of 4.9 million people and a youthful population overall.

Pressure on health service then? Isn't it the same every winter though? (not that it's right by the way). Even during the increases in January they didn't hit breaking point though.

Vaccination rates? As much of a mess as the HSE and AZ have made of it, people are slowly being vaccinated, yet we're told that even then it won't be the end of it.. why?

So what is continued Level 5 restrictions, 6 months later, meant to achieve now that it hasn't already?

PTH2009

Its some time to be an irish person, between the soccer last night and our ultra conservative reopening plans its miserable

2021 is actually turning out worse than 2020 in terms of lockdowns and the variants are been used as the excuse to justify them. NPHET seem to have so much say and power and they are the ones been left pick and choose what will reopen

Looking like level 4+ til mid may and then **** knows, im frightened to see this new living with covid plan that supposedly will be revealed next week

PTH2009

PTH2009 wrote: »

Its some time to be an irish person, between the soccer last night and our ultra conservative reopening plans its miserable

2021 is actually turning out worse than 2020 in terms of lockdowns and the variants are been used as the excuse to justify them. NPHET seem to have so much say and power and they are the ones been left pick and choose what will reopen

Looking like level 4+ til mid may and then **** knows, im frightened to see this new living with covid plan that supposedly will be revealed next week

I didn't know there was a new one on the way. Like the current one, I don't imagine there'll be a level 0 in the revised plan.

RGS

PTH2009 wrote: »

Its some time to be an irish person, between the soccer last night and our ultra conservative reopening plans its miserable

2021 is actually turning out worse than 2020 in terms of lockdowns and the variants are been used as the excuse to justify them. NPHET seem to have so much say and power and they are the ones been left pick and choose what will reopen

Looking like level 4+ til mid may and then **** knows, im frightened to see this new living with covid plan that supposedly will be revealed next week

Dont worry you wont see a plan because there is no plan and never will be.
Sure Leo told the dail this week government cant issue a plan because it might change. What a load of cobblers.
Plans always contain caveats but our idiots cant compile one.

ypres5

RGS wrote: »

Dont worry you wont see a plan because there is no plan and never will be.
Sure Leo told the dail this week government cant issue a plan because it might change. What a load of cobblers.
Plans always contain caveats but our idiots cant compile one.

I suppose they're just spinning their tyres until tony returns and tells them what their plan is

hynesie08

PTH2009 wrote: »

Its some time to be an irish person, between the soccer last night and our ultra conservative reopening plans its miserable

2021 is actually turning out worse than 2020 in terms of lockdowns and the variants are been used as the excuse to justify them. NPHET seem to have so much say and power and they are the ones been left pick and choose what will reopen

Looking like level 4+ til mid may and then **** knows, im frightened to see this new living with covid plan that supposedly will be revealed next week

No, it's not.

RGS

ypres5 wrote: »

I suppose they're just spinning their tyres until tony returns and tells them what their plan is

We all know Tony's plan

Level 5 lockdown.

DTownD

Whatsisname wrote: »

I came across this thread on Twitter the other day showing the frenzy created by the media and politicians in response to Texas removing restrictions. Some real low life journalists writing articles like “Texas and Mississippi are battling it out to see who can kill more with covid”. It really shows the toxicity of social media in driving panic and hysteria throughout this whole pandemic and I’m aware it’s ironic for me to show that with a Twitter thread.

[url]

https://twitter.com/ianmsc/status/1374769436591226883?s=21[/url]

And NONE of the very vocal pro-lockdown crowd on here have anything to say about what is happening in Texas. Surprise, surprise.

Texas have relaxed ALL restrictions and case numbers are dropping rapidly.

And yet we continue with this absolutely mental strategy of lockdown, lockdown, more lockdown... we must prevent future lockdowns.

The country will be in tatters after this.

Rosita

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Plenty of scope within 2km also, why was it increased to 5km?

Don't know that. Wasn't privy to be decision.

Rosita

Multipass wrote: »

Everyone should get giant hamster wheels and we could bring it down to 0km. Anything to be safe.

Not everyone has space for a giant hamster wheel. But I like you idea in principle.

Rosita

DTownD wrote: »

And NONE of the very vocal pro-lockdown crowd on here have anything to say about what is happening in Texas. Surprise, surprise.

Texas have relaxed ALL restrictions and case numbers are dropping rapidly.

.

Would be good if you cited a source for this. My understanding is that there are a number of different sources for Texas figures with some variation.

walus

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Why is Eamon Ryan conspiring with Martin and Varadkar to steal your freedom?
I always thought he was just a bit of a wally, but apparently he's a sinister authoritarian nightmare.

It's mad that we've gone from a country that recently legalised abortion, divorce and gay marriage to a dystopian authoritarian hellscape in one short year.

Didn’t you notice how our freedom, which we all have taken for granted, has been quickly monetised over this past year? That will remain in place even with this pandemic long gone, for when another pandemic comes around...

walus

Deleted User wrote: »

Our freedom is goneThe question is whether or not it will be returned. The fact that there's no level 0 in the plan points to level 1 being 'the degree of normality' Glynn keeps talking about.

This isn't the right thread for it, but a lot of people are worried about the Great Reset. They argue that a 'new normal' is being ushered in, such as the one described in that article, which would result in people being restricted in what they can do, again as described in that article.

It will be returned, at the price. Freedom is being monetised as we sit at home and watch the propaganda. #wewilldothethinkingforyou

Stormyteacup

DTownD wrote: »

And NONE of the very vocal pro-lockdown crowd on here have anything to say about what is happening in Texas. Surprise, surprise.

Texas have relaxed ALL restrictions and case numbers are dropping rapidly.

And yet we continue with this absolutely mental strategy of lockdown, lockdown, more lockdown... we must prevent future lockdowns.

The country will be in tatters after this.

Yes but you must only look to countries making choices differently to our own when you believe those choices are wrong and will result in increasing deaths and hospitalisations due to Covid, and that said counties will subsequently wish they had done what ireland does (extreme caution and no risk, no matter what external scientific data comes to light) so they can regret their decisions and Ireland can continue to strive to be best in class at low Covid positive cases, at any cost.

If we wait long enough, maybe we can point to Texas and say ‘see, we knew it’, be it six more months of heavy restrictions, or twelve, or two years, or maybe they are in the clear. Regardless we will still suffer an unbearably slow, illogical, and economically devastating, easing of restrictions.

Richard Hillman

PTH2009 wrote: »

Its some time to be an irish person, between the soccer last night and our ultra conservative reopening plans its miserable

2021 is actually turning out worse than 2020 in terms of lockdowns and the variants are been used as the excuse to justify them. NPHET seem to have so much say and power and they are the ones been left pick and choose what will reopen

Looking like level 4+ til mid may and then **** knows, im frightened to see this new living with covid plan that supposedly will be revealed next week

Last night took the biscuit. I have never been so miserable about the country. Living in an open prison. Economic ruin on the horizon. Rent prices about the go sky higher because of no building. Not being promised our Pre-Covid freedoms back again. Pubs closing, restaurants closing, shops closing, no jobs. Eastern Europeans are leaving. Nanny Staters gaining even more influence to meddle with our lives. Weather's ****e. No political options for change. Our sports teams are ****e. No hope. No future. Its the 80s again.

Rosita

[QUOTE=_Kaiser_;116720216

]What variables would you consider?

[/QUOTE]

In the context of a team sport, say, you could try the same tactics, and the variable might be doing it better. It's a cliché thrown out as if it's really reliable and akin to some kind of clinical definition of insanity.

In the context of Covid the most obvious variable is the transmissibility of the variant. It's actually very possible that Level 5 has in fact been extraordinarily successful. We might have 20k cases per day without it.