Another mass shooting in the USA - 10 killed

Esse85

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/03/22/us/boulder-colorado-shooting/index.html

Imagine just going to your local Tesco or Aldi and this happening. So sad.

salmocab

Esse85 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/03/22/us/boulder-colorado-shooting/index.html

Imagine just going to your local Tesco or Aldi and this happening. So sad.

You’d also have to imagine living somewhere with ridiculous gun laws.

shar01

and a health system that shafts poor people.

CtevenSrowder

The American fascination with guns, and their 2nd Amendment is truly bizzare. Not some thi g i think I'll ever understand. As is the fact they do not have some kind of socialised Healthcare such as we have in Europe.

Another terrible tragedy, yet as always, nothing will change. Awful for the victims and their families. Horrible that a policeman died aswell, a profession that is hated by many over there.

Rodin

We never heard a word about the 4th amendment....
Should trump the 2nd.

WrenBoy

Awful story, RIP to the victims. Hopefully the shooter lives and gets put away for the rest of his life.

Muppet Man

As sad as it is, what's really sad is I have become conditioned to hearing this from the US and am no longer surprised or shocked. May the victims rest in peace.

Wanderer78

Thoughts and prayers!

Nothing to see here!

ypres5

Another name incident of far right white nationalist terror in the space of a week. can we have a conversation on it now or will we stay in denial like so many on boards were with the atlanta shooting?

Banana Republic 1

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

The American fascination with guns, and their 2nd Amendment is truly bizzare. Not some thi g i think I'll ever understand. As is the fact they do not have some kind of socialised Healthcare such as we have in Europe.

Another terrible tragedy, yet as always, nothing will change. Awful for the victims and their families. Horrible that a policeman died aswell, a profession that is hated by many over there.

The way Americans view guns is the same way the Irish view drink. Guns are endemic in American culture just the same way drink is here.

osarusan

Interesting article trying to identify factors behind the sheer number of shootings.

But there is one quirk that consistently puzzles America’s fans and critics alike. Why, they ask, does it experience so many mass shootings?

Perhaps, some speculate, it is because American society is unusually violent. Or its racial divisions have frayed the bonds of society. Or its citizens lack proper mental care under a health care system that draws frequent derision abroad.

These explanations share one thing in common: Though seemingly sensible, all have been debunked by research on shootings elsewhere in the world. Instead, an ever-growing body of research consistently reaches the same conclusion.

The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html

And a couple of figures from that article:

banie01

Rodin wrote: »

We never heard a word about the 4th amendment....
Should trump the 2nd.

The 4th amendment is the right to be secure against search and seizure of person or property without warrant or cause.
Most Americans would argue that amendment actually further secures their 2a rights.

biko

RIP, another American shooting other Americans.

whisky_galore

Routine by now, they'll never wean themselves off gun fetishism.

Ashbourne hoop

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

The way Americans view guns is the same way the Irish view drink. Guns are endemic in American culture just the same way drink is here.

If their gun laws were as strict as their alcohol laws, they wouldn't have a problem.

Nothing will be done with guns in America. Sandy Hook should have been the impetus to change their laws, but wasn't, and the cycle continues.

randd1

They have shootings like we have sports matches. It's absolutely mental when you think about it. But then, that's the yanks for you.

Of course, there is a precedent in the US for tighter gun laws, and how to bring them about. It's simple really; give black men the high powered weaponry.

They brought in controls in the 60's when the Black Panthers started buying up guns. So start giving military grade weaponry and armour to groups like BLM. They'll have tighter controls by the end of the week.

Gunmonkey

So how long until we get the ubiquitous NRA/Republican squirming along saying "Well...well if only there had been some good guys with guns this might not have happened....we just need more guns to solve this!"

Only hope is with the Dems having some sort of control of the houses now they are smart enough to start pushing some/any gun control legislation through. Its farcically past the point of letting this keep happen or fearing responses of "Oh you are just using a tragedy to push your agenda!" from gun lobbyists.

punisher5112

What a kip of a country.

Very sad.

R.I.P to all those taken.

WrenBoy

Some of the lads must be sleeping in so I'll throw up the usual argument about these things. <ahem>
Well we cant say anything because the IRA.

banie01

A mass shooting in an "open carry" state.
It's almost as if having easy access to guns, allowing people to carry them openly for their "protection" out and about has demonstrably failed.

There was a church shooting in Texas foiled by a frankly incredible shot from a 70+ yr old man a couple of years ago.
A headshot from 20mtrs plus with a pistol.
Pro 2a folk latched onto this as an example of why guns keep people safe.
Ignoring the convergence of years of skill and training, luck and the simple fact that if guns were harder to lay hands on?
The luck here would never have been needed.

This Colorado shooting is unfortunately far more illustrative of what easy gun ownership means.
Lots of armed people in and around that shop even before the police arrived, yet 10 dead and shooter arrested.
No John McClane moment, no yippee ki yay just more death sown by easy access to firearms.

Still, tbh I don't really care.
US gun politics are a dumpster fire of individual rights versus big government and are indicative of a huge societal failing.
Those who scream from my cold dead fingers, and to protect from tyrants are funnily enough the same militia loons who tried to overturn free and fair elections.

It really is like having a window on the decline and fall of an Empire.

Witcher

banie01 wrote: »

Lots of armed people in and around that shop even before the police arrived, yet 10 dead and shooter arrested.
No John McClane moment, no yippee ki yay just more death sown by easy access to firearms.

What's your source on this?

banie01

Witcher wrote: »

What's your source on this?

Having worked in CO. It's my own knowledge rather than sourced.
It's an open carry state, and that's a right that many residents enthusiastically exercise.

Open carry in CO is legal and concealed carry permits are on a "shall issue" basis.
That means once an applicant meets the criteria, the license must issue.

It is probably the most weaponized part of the US I've ever been in.
They make Montana look restrictive.

Thelonious Monk

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

The way Americans view guns is the same way the Irish view drink. Guns are endemic in American culture just the same way drink is here.

Maybe minimum unit pricing for bullets would reduce gun use

CtevenSrowder

ypres5 wrote: »

Another name incident of far right white nationalist terror in the space of a week. can we have a conversation on it now or will we stay in denial like so many on boards were with the atlanta shooting?

Didn't the FBI say it wasn't race related?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/03/18/fbi-director-says-atlanta-shooting-does-not-appear-racially-motivated/

Also, I'm pretty sure there have been conversations about white nationalism in America on boards before, and it is known that it is the biggest terror threat over there (according to the FBI). Europe is ofcourse different.

biko

If you can prevent people from getting frustrated or crazy enough to go on a shooting spree I suppose that'd help.

Right now of course we know nothing about the motive etc.

whisky_galore

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Maybe minimum unit pricing for bullets would reduce gun use

Maybe restrict weapons to the type available to the Founding Fathers.

biko

whisky_galore wrote: »

Maybe restrict weapons to the type available to the Founding Fathers.

Good luck getting the Crisps and the Bloods to adopt to this idea

ACitizenErased

We all know this will change absolutely nothing and the cycle will just repeat again

Witcher

biko wrote: »

Good luck getting the Crisps and the Bloods to adopt to this idea

Mass shooting in America .

Reasons ; Trump , guns , far right , IRA ( lol ) etc etc .

No mention that the perp might have had some sort of MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES .

Not so long ago in Ireland , a guy with a " butter knife" , attacked some folk . He had mental health issues . Was this Trump's fault , far right , IRA etc ? Ban all butter knives ?

LillySV

Trumps gone now so who’s America going to blame now for this ? Or will we stay blaming him cause that’s handy

BanditLuke

ypres5 wrote: »

Another name incident of far right white nationalist terror in the space of a week. can we have a conversation on it now or will we stay in denial like so many on boards were with the atlanta shooting?

Where is the link to the far right either here or last week?

salmocab

LillySV wrote: »

Trumps gone now so who’s America going to blame now for this ? Or will we stay blaming him cause that’s handy

Did anyone here blame him? Mass shootings were around long before him and will be around long after.

BanditLuke

LillySV wrote: »

Trumps gone now so who’s America going to blame now for this ? Or will we stay blaming him cause that’s handy

The sad thing is some people actually think Biden will make a difference. It doesn't matter who the President is Americans will never give up their guns.

osarusan

THE_SHEEP wrote: »

Mass shooting in America .

Reasons ; Trump , guns , far right , IRA ( lol ) etc etc .

No mention that the perp might have had some sort of MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES .

Not so long ago in Ireland , a guy with a " butter knife" , attacked some folk . He had mental health issues . Was this Trump's fault , far right , IRA etc ? Ban all butter knives ?

You have made literally the first mention of Trump in the thread.

Gaoth Laidir

WrenBoy wrote: »

Awful story, RIP to the victims. Hopefully the shooter lives but with horrific gunshot wounds from Police fire and gets put away for the rest of his life.

I fixed your post there.

GreeBo

THE_SHEEP wrote: »

Mass shooting in America .

Reasons ; Trump , guns , far right , IRA ( lol ) etc etc .

No mention that the perp might have had some sort of MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES .

Not so long ago in Ireland , a guy with a " butter knife" , attacked some folk . He had mental health issues . Was this Trump's fault , far right , IRA etc ? Ban all butter knives ?

How many people were killed in the mass butter-knifing incident?

LillySV

salmocab wrote: »

Did anyone here blame him? Mass shootings were around long before him and will be around long after.

salmocab wrote: »

Did anyone here blame him? Mass shootings were around long before him and will be around long after.[/quote

Americas values has been slowly eroding over the last few decades and getting progressively worse... many did and do blame him for the way things are recently...reality is America has same problem as Ireland ... countries interests aren’t been looked after by last no of govts as people voted into power for afew years and allowed make big decisions without any real knowledge of the subject... that same short term govt in many cases has vested interests so make changes that will work to their benefit and that of big companies who will look after them too! There should be an oversight agency/group made up of specialist/experts in each individual area who can ensure/advise on these decisions and step in if required .

The Nal

Tail end was filmed by a bystander. Who decided to film instead of helping people.

Props to the guy casually standing at the door on his phone with the shooter killing people behind him.

wes

Again, the only country where this kind of thing happens so frequently will do nothing about it. So when another mass shooter has a bad day, you will have the usual suspects say nothing can be done, despite other countries taking steps quite successfully to handle the problem.

Gaoth Laidir

If he turns out to be a white American shooter, it won't be classed as terrorism. That's only for the really bad guys from outside their narrow little world.

salmocab

LillySV wrote: »

salmocab wrote: »

Did anyone here blame him? Mass shootings were around long before him and will be around long after.[/quote

Americas values has been slowly eroding over the last few decades and getting progressively worse... many did and do blame him for the way things are recently...reality is America has same problem as Ireland ... countries interests aren’t been looked after by last no of govts as people voted into power for afew years and allowed make big decisions without any real knowledge of the subject... that same short term govt in many cases has vested interests so make changes that will work to their benefit and that of big companies who will look after them too! There should be an oversight agency/group made up of specialist/experts in each individual area who can ensure/advise on these decisions and step in if required .

A simple no would have done.

GreeBo

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

If he turns out to be a white American shooter, it won't be classed as terrorism. That's only for the really bad guys from outside their narrow little world.

Must be a white American, sure he was taken alive!

Banana Republic 1

whisky_galore wrote: »

Routine by now, they'll never wean themselves off gun fetishism.

Same as the Irish with drink.

Banana Republic 1

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

If their gun laws were as strict as their alcohol laws, they wouldn't have a problem.

Nothing will be done with guns in America. Sandy Hook should have been the impetus to change their laws, but wasn't, and the cycle continues.

I referenced drink being endemic in Irish culture

Feisar

whisky_galore wrote: »

Maybe restrict weapons to the type available to the Founding Fathers.

I hate the way they go on about the Founding Fathers as if they are one step down from God. Like they were a group of lads that made up a constitution tht suited the time. The fact it was an amendment, i.e. they didn't get it right first time doesn't seem to factor in at all.

There's something wrong with American's attitude to guns and I say that as a gun lover and owner.

Banana Republic 1

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Maybe minimum unit pricing for bullets would reduce gun use

It doesn't reduce the cultural drinking problems in Ireland.

randd1

BanditLuke wrote: »

The sad thing is some people actually think Biden will make a difference. It doesn't matter who the President is Americans will never give up their guns.

The only way they'll ever give up their guns is when as a country, they descend fully into the mire, the Union breaks up into several nation states on the brink of civil war, and then they have said a vicious civil war, or Civil War: The Sequel (fully paid per view on Tik Tok).

China, then keen to remove the last possible military opponent to their absolute power, plays each of the new nation states off each other, and then at their weakest, invades. After the successful and bloody invasion, China removes all weaponry on US soil to prevent an uprising.

The United People's Republican Federal Communist States of Chinese Imperial America (UPRFCSCIA), or Chinese America as it's known to us in the recently established Western Sino Empire, is then and thereafter a nation without access to guns.

Ashbourne hoop

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

I referenced drink being endemic in Irish culture

And I stated if their gun laws were as strict as their alcohol laws they wouldn't have as big a problem. What's your point, apart from trying to shoe horn Irish drinking habits into a discussion on an American mass shooting?

Banana Republic 1

Ashbourne hoop wrote: »

And I stated if their gun laws were as strict as their alcohol laws they wouldn't have as big a problem. What's your point, apart from trying to shoe horn Irish drinking habits into a discussion on an American mass shooting?

If you don't understand the similarities between the drink culture here and the American gun fascination then you'll never understand the problems faced. Im not against drinking or guns but when there an intrinsic part of a society then its difficult to untangle the knots.

banie01

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

If you don't understand the similarities between the drink culture here and the American gun fascination then you'll never understand the problems faced. Im not against drinking or guns but when there an intrinsic part of a society then its difficult to untangle the knots.

Your analogy is poor.

Drink is an intrinsic part of Irish culture, yes.
Also going by the number of Marches for Mental Health and campaigns, us Irish do crazy well too.

How many mass casualty events have either lead to in the past week?
Drinking oneself to death, or losing a battle to mental health here doesn't equate to walking into a shop or a school and opening fire.
It's a false and frankly nonsense equivalence.

There's been 10mass shooting events in the US in the last 7 days.
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

That bears zero, absolutely zero equivalence, cultural, casualty or otherwise to Irish drinking culture.
Or how about mass casualty events in those countries that drink even more than we do?