Leaving Dublin for good

mgn

mgn wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/anti-irish-sentiment-in-britain-i-feel-like-i-am-back-in-the-1980s-1.3992131

How long were you there ,a day maybe two.

I was there 11 years, I have family members there since the 50s& 60s. I said I know of those headlines, however neither me not any of family members ever had any bad experience based on our nationality.
You seem to be very angry with anyone that has a different experience to yourself

mgn

bubblypop wrote: »

I was there 11 years, I have family members there since the 50s& 60s. I said I know of those headlines, however neither me not any of family members ever had any bad experience based on our nationality.
You seem to be very angry with anyone that has a different experience to yourself

I honestly have to say I have never heard of anyone spending 11 years in the UK the dident get some form of abuse .
Where were you anytime a bomb went off,
I got plenty of racist abuse over the 15 years that I spent there, but it was like water of a duck back to me because i gave it back twice as good.

And for the record the were the best 15 years of my life

Thelonious Monk

With a mainland bombing campaign going on it's going to irk the brits a bit and quelle surprise there'd be remarks here and there. I lived there for 4 years and had nothing but positive experiences.

Hamachi

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

With a mainland bombing campaign going on it's going to irk the brits a bit and quelle surprise there'd be remarks here and there. I lived there for 4 years and had nothing but positive experiences.

It's almost like people have their own individual experiences of the same milieu.


Quelle surprise indeed.

L1011

Hamachi wrote: »

Just to pick up on this point. I’m exaggerating when I say there are no parks within 5Kms. There are green areas in the estate and some playing pitches. However, we don’t have access to anything like the Phoenix park or St Anne’s park in Raheny.

We’re in West Dublin outside the M50. Let’s just say I live within 0.25 miles of where a recent, high profile incident occurred

Within 5km you have the Millennium Regional Park, Beech Park and St Catherines Park all of which are substantially more than estate green areas. You're also in Fingal, not Dublin City...

The Phoenix Park is one of the biggest city parks in the world, most people in any city in the world are not within 5km of a similar scale park!

Hamachi

L1011 wrote: »

Within 5km you have the Millennium Regional Park, Beech Park and St Catherines Park all of which are substantially more than estate green areas. You're also in Fingal, not Dublin City...

The Phoenix Park is one of the biggest city parks in the world, most people in any city in the world are not within 5km of a similar scale park!

Does any of that invalidate the opinion that some neighborhoods / post codes in Dublin (Fingal if we’re being pedantic) are less than optimal for young families?

Ush1

Hamachi wrote: »

Does any of that invalidate the opinion that some neighborhoods / post codes in Dublin (Fingal if we’re being pedantic) are less than optimal for young families?

There's rough areas in most counties. Has anything directly happened to you or your family? Too much media consumption can skew perspectives.

Hamachi

Ush1 wrote: »

There's rough areas in most counties. Has anything directly happened to you or your family? Too much media consumption can skew perspectives.

No excessive media consumption here. The schools are sub-standard. That’s a deal breaker for any parent, for whom education is a priority.

L1011

Hamachi wrote: »

Does any of that invalidate the opinion that some neighborhoods / post codes in Dublin (Fingal if we’re being pedantic) are less than optimal for young families?

Well, it invalidates your claim about their being no parks, and the revised claim about no proper parks, quite thoroughly.

If your opinion is based on invalid data its not worth acknowledging.

Biker79

Some good news for the city center:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/anti-social-behaviour-crackdown-planned-for-dublin-city-social-housing-1.4519296

I see booze isn't mentioned but perhaps that will resolve itself after the pandemic.

raven41

Hamachi wrote: »

Just to pick up on this point. I’m exaggerating when I say there are no parks within 5Kms. There are green areas in the estate and some playing pitches. However, we don’t have access to anything like the Phoenix park or St Anne’s park in Raheny.

We’re in West Dublin outside the M50. Let’s just say I live within 0.25 miles of where a recent, high profile incident occurred, in which the Gardai were forced to intervene with utmost force, against an allegedly mentally ill man. The schools around here are shocking. A huge amount of resources are spent providing support to specific cohorts of children.

As another poster said, we probably made a fundamental error of buying in the wrong area. I see colleagues bringing up their kids in lovely areas like Malahide, Skerries, Greystones etc.. and I can’t help but compare with my locality. My kids aren’t of school-going age yet thankfully, but there’s no way I’d compromise their education by sending them to local schools. We’ll be long gone from here before then.

Anyway, TLDR: Dublin is fantastic if you live in the right area. It’s not so terrific in the wrong neighborhood and those issues are further magnified if you want to give your kids a great start in life.

I too live about a half a mile from where that unfortunate incident took place, have done since 2001. Blanch/Clonsilla is not that bad. Have a son in transition year and another in year 3 of a 4 year degree course in college. Both were/are students of Hartstown community school.
I dont regret buying in this area as pre covid there was a lot of after school activities within a very short drive. Area itself is very multicultural and it has given both my kids a more balanced view of other nationalities and cultures. They both have friends who were born outside of Ireland (and now speak with thick Dub accent). A French friend of mine feels we are doing a better job of social and racial integration than his home country by not segragating and ghettoising minorities. In my area, families of Nigerian,Bosnian, Polish are acive members of the community.
As regards parks there is a huge one right on your doorstep sitting slap bang between Hartsown and Hunstown. St Catherines park is a short drive away as is Phoenix.
Look, I cant change the way you feel about this area but having being brought up in another part of Dublin and moved here 20 years ago I feel its no better or worse than anywhere else in the city.

Hamachi

raven41 wrote: »

Look, I cant change the way you feel about this area but having being brought up in another part of Dublin and moved here 20 years ago I feel its no better or worse than anywhere else in the city.

That’s fair enough. You’re happy with the area and that’s fine and presumably it suits you. This area simply doesn’t work for my family.

Both my wife and I come from ordinary backgrounds outside Dublin. We both attended regular CBS and convent schools. We’re pretty unanimous that the standard of schooling in this area is sub-standard, both in terms of environment and outcomes. Now, I’ll admit that we value education above most other factors, but this is not an uncommon sentiment around here and quite a few of our neighbors have voted with their feet.

I’m very fortunate to be doing pretty well in life and have many colleagues and friends with children attending schools in some of the ‘nicer’ parts of Dublin. There’s no comparison in terms of the educational environments to which they have access.

You’re totally right though. It’s horses for courses. Personally, I can’t wait for Covid restrictions to lift to finally get moving on house hunting and to leave this part of Dublin behind.

ellee

I worked in Blanch for a while and it seemed grand. But we all know there are pockets anywhere that can be really awful, add in bad schools and it is a disaster.

It really is unfortunate you were so unlucky. Hope you get to move somewhere much more to your liking soon!

Ush1

Hamachi wrote: »

That’s fair enough. You’re happy with the area and that’s fine and presumably it suits you. This area simply doesn’t work for my family.

Both my wife and I come from ordinary backgrounds outside Dublin. We both attended regular CBS and convent schools. We’re pretty unanimous that the standard of schooling in this area is sub-standard, both in terms of environment and outcomes. Now, I’ll admit that we value education above most other factors, but this is not an uncommon sentiment around here and quite a few of our neighbors have voted with their feet.

I’m very fortunate to be doing pretty well in life and have many colleagues and friends with children attending schools in some of the ‘nicer’ parts of Dublin. There’s no comparison in terms of the educational environments to which they have access.

You’re totally right though. It’s horses for courses. Personally, I can’t wait for Covid restrictions to lift to finally get moving on house hunting and to leave this part of Dublin behind.

Can you detail what you mean by environment and outcomes of the education?

ellee

ellee wrote: »

It really is unfortunate you were so unlucky.

It's not luck though, right? I think Hamachi also made reference to 'landing on your feet', with where you choose to buy. Not trying to take away from the nice sentiment from ellee, but surely you should get to know an area before buying in it. Hamachi is comparing Blanch and the surrounding area to the likes of Malahide and Greystones. The difference between those areas should be apparent to anyone as soon as they look at the price tags, it's not comparing like with like.

External Association

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I've been living exclusively in the family home, in Tipp, since late last year and still paying a Dublin mortgage. I'm increasingly asking myself why I'm paying the latter (or, more's the point, how long will the tenant keep paying his rent?). If he is willing to enter another lease, I am happy to stay out of Dublin forever.

Just curious about how many of you have decided to leave Dublin.? Especially those of you not originally from Dublin, but I'm sure some Dubs must also be getting itchy feet.

I can't see any point of staying in Dublin, and it's making me concerned about the future demand for rental property.

Left in 2005, so much better quality of life down the country. Dublin is great for college/early 20s.

Hamachi

Ush1 wrote: »

Can you detail what you mean by environment and outcomes of the education?

Outcomes are informed by hard data. Metrics like second-level drop-out rates, third-level progression rates, and the types of degrees taken at third level.

Environment is more qualitative. Things like peers, prevailing influences, and ambition to do well in life.

Another poster mentioned it as a positive that kids in this area have or have acquired a ‘thick dub accent’. I’m in no way having a pop at that poster, but that’s not a virtue in my eyes. A priority for me is having well-spoken, articulate kids.

People have different outlooks and priorities. This area doesn’t align with mine.

Ush1

Hamachi wrote: »

Outcomes are informed by hard data. Metrics like second-level drop-out rates, third-level progression rates, and the types of degrees taken at third level.

Environment is more qualitative. Things like peers, prevailing influences, and ambition to do well in life.

Another poster mentioned it as a positive that kids in this area have or have acquired a ‘thick dub accent’. I’m in no way having a pop at that poster, but that’s not a virtue in my eyes. A priority for me is having well-spoken, articulate kids.

People have different outlooks and priorities. This area doesn’t align with mine.

I'd be interested to see that data if you can link it. Drop out rates and third level progression I'd imagine would be more influenced by parents than the school itself.

Hamachi

Ush1 wrote: »

I'd be interested to see that data if you can link it. Drop out rates and third level progression I'd imagine would be more influenced by parents than the school itself.

Check out this link [SR_BROADSHEET - 4] PRINT/BROADSHEET_SUPP/PAGES<FEEDER_TABLES_2020_P4_5> ... 08/01/21 (irishtimes.com)


Hartstown community school in Dublin 15 was mentioned on this thread. In 2020, it sent 13.5% of its leaving cert class to TCD, UCD, or DCU. Not terrible by any means, but contrast that with Pobail Scoil Íosa in Malahide, where the equivalent progression rate is > 43%. That's very statistically significant. That's just one broad stroke data set I've examined. I won't bore you with the others.


I agree that parental influence is more important than the school itself. At the same time, many parents also strive to provide the best possible environment to enable their kids unlock their potential. Having access to that environment is also a contributory factor in their development.

PhoenixParker

Hamachi wrote: »

Check out this link [SR_BROADSHEET - 4] PRINT/BROADSHEET_SUPP/PAGES<FEEDER_TABLES_2020_P4_5> ... 08/01/21 (irishtimes.com)


Hartstown community school in Dublin 15 was mentioned on this thread. In 2020, it sent 13.5% of its leaving cert class to TCD, UCD, or DCU. Not terrible by any means, but contrast that with Pobail Scoil Íosa in Malahide, where the equivalent progression rate is > 43%. That's very statistically significant. That's just one broad stroke data set I've examined. I won't bore you with the others.


I agree that parental influence is more important than the school itself. At the same time, many parents also strive to provide the best possible environment to enable their kids unlock their potential. Having access to that environment is also a contributory factor in their development.

You’re cherry picking a bit there.
For kids living near Hartstown, Maynooth is very handy. 34 out of 200 went to Maynooth. Total in universities is 55% with 70% in some form of tertiary education on the list.

Malahide is better with 73% and 86% respectively so it’s above Hartstown but it’s not as stark a difference as 13% vs 43% would make it seem.

Hamachi

PhoenixParker wrote: »

You’re cherry picking a bit there.
For kids living near Hartstown, Maynooth is very handy. 34 out of 200 went to Maynooth. Total in universities is 55% with 70% in some form of tertiary education on the list.

Malahide is better with 73% and 86% respectively so it’s above Hartstown but it’s not as stark a difference as 13% vs 43% would make it seem.

Sure. There’s a degree of bias there, but I scoped the parameters to a couple of the Dublin schools / areas referenced in this thread and the Dublin universities.

Not to be overly pedantic, but when you examine the QS rankings for 2021, TCD is placed at 101 internationally, UCD at 177, and DCU at 439 vs. # 701 for Maynooth. I’m sure Maynooth is a good institution, but it isn’t in the same league as TCD or UCD.

I don’t want to get overly hung up on stats. Like I said earlier, I feel like deciding on the right area is a mix of the quantitative and the qualitative. I also agree with another poster who pointed out that I clearly didn’t do enough research before purchasing in this area. I’m a big boy, so mea culpa. It’s an error of judgement I won’t repeat.

vriesmays

Hamachi wrote: »

I’m sure Maynooth is a good institution, but it isn’t in the same league as TCD or UCD.

That's like saying Shamrock Rovers are in a different league to Finn Harps. Our colleges are too dumbed down and feminised to be world class. The next Jung won't have studied psychology in Maynooth. Smart school-leavers move abroad to continue their education.

PhilOssophy

I don't think your university has any significant influence on your future. They will all get you a start somewhere - and I don't believe there's any real difference between the standard of education you'd get in Maynooth vs Trinity or UCD.

Pawwed Rig

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I don't think your university has any significant influence on your future. They will all get you a start somewhere - and I don't believe there's any real difference between the standard of education you'd get in Maynooth vs Trinity or UCD.

I would agree with you that there is little difference in the content but there are companies (such as google) that will only hire from what they consider elite universities so of you want certain jobs then where you went to school is important.
Also there an alma mater bias from Trinity and UCD graduates in many employments.

PhilOssophy

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I would agree with you that there is little difference in the content but there are companies (such as google) that will only hire from what they consider elite universities so of you want certain jobs then where you went to school is important.
Also there an alma mater bias from Trinity and UCD graduates in many employments.

I don't think there's a university bias in Ireland. At least, it has never occurred to me on either side of the table. Secondary school on the other hand I believe there's a significant amount of that

Pawwed Rig

PhilOssophy wrote: »

I don't think there's a university bias in Ireland. At least, it has never occurred to me on either side of the table. Secondary school on the other hand I believe there's a significant amount of that

I have seen both and google is in Ireland. Knew a girl who worked in HR there many years ago

dubrov

PhilOssophy wrote:

I don't think there's a university bias in Ireland. At least, it has never occurred to me on either side of the table. Secondary school on the other hand I believe there's a significant amount of that

Let me guess. You went to university but not one of the more reputable secondary schools

PhilOssophy

dubrov wrote: »

Let me guess. You went to university but not one of the more reputable secondary schools

Define "reputable"?

Pawwed Rig

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Define "reputable"?

One of the head guys in a place I used to work would only hire people from Blackrock college

PhilOssophy

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

One of the head guys in a place I used to work would only hire people from Blackrock college

Yeah, that's along the lines of what I have seen/heard.