Would you ever consider moving to continental Europe? And if so where?

NeuralNetwork

I speak fluent French but I’m just wondering how people have gotten on without initial language skills in other countries.

I lived in Spain (northern) and *really* struggled with it to get fluency in Spanish, despite really trying very hard with it. I could understand TV and radio, read the paper and all of that but I’d get totally lost when people were speaking to me. I held down a job, but it was 90% in English and it would be a little unusual to find anything similar again.

My hearing is a bit weird due to history of ear surgery, so when I’m in a bar (even in English) it’s often a bit of a mess as I can’t really grasp what’s being said if people are talking across each other, so I end up sitting there a bit baffled - that’s sort of why I’m a bit concerned about moving but at the same time I wouldn’t mind spending some time abroad again.

Maybe I didn’t give Spanish enough time but I thought after almost a year, not being able to strike up a conversation was really a dead end for me. It became very isolating.

I could go to France but it’s just not a new experience and while I like aspects of it, it’s not really for me. I lived in Belgium too but it’s again not that different and afaik Switzerland has complications around work permits?

I’d be keen to go though after Covid-19 calms to the point we can start travelling again. At the moment it still seems a bit of a mess.

murpho999

Jizique wrote: »

Depends where you are and what the job is - ECB in Frankfurt would be fine, some small engineering place in a village in Saxony not so much

If you to have a good experience it will be better with the language.

Germans, no matter how good their English is will always prefer to speak German.

A group of Germans will speak German together and you'll be excluded from that.

Your life there will be a lot better and enriched if you make attempts to learn the language.

I don't get this "would be fine" attitude, sounds lazy and ignorant to me.

Gregor Samsa

I work for an American company with an office in Cologne. There's a large mix of nationalities in that office - Germans probably only make up half the staff. They use English as their day to day language in the office, so technically maybe you could "get away" with not speaking German - at least in your professional work. And you'll be able to get a taxi and order in a restaurant in English. And do your shopping.

But every single non-German I know in the office has begun learning, or improving, German within a year of moving there with formal lessons.

I knew someone else who moved to France (they had retired relatively young, so working wasn't an issue). They had a small bit of French, and used it and tried to improve it a bit, but really they were "getting away" with a very poor standard of the language, complemented with English and lots of pointing, and thought they were doing OK for the first few months.

But one day there was a problem with their electricity bill, and had to get on to the utility company. Even though the people they were talking to in there were actually helpful and tried to use a mix of English and simple French, my friend quickly realised that in in order to actually get through normal life there and deal with real-life problems (not just tourist life), you'd need a relatively good standard of French. For dealing with utilities, banks, local authorities, government departments, etc.

NeuralNetwork

That was the problem I had in Spain a few times, I wasn't able to deal with technical support with an ISP at all and even things like filling in forms for various state services needed someone to help me translate.

I'd have zero issue with any of that in French, but it becomes quite challenging in Spanish.

Belgium is almost too forgiving about not speaking Flemish or French and will default to English almost too easily to the point you can't practice your target language. I found the Netherlands similar too.

It does show though there's a major difference between the EU and US in terms of internal mobility. You can pack your bag and move to another part of the US, which is as far away as another European country, without any real complications at all.

ablelocks

Germany - Berlin or Dresden would have most appeal.

South of France - near to Montpellier as it is fairly central point for access to Toulon / Toulouse / Clermont

josip

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

...
Belgium is almost too forgiving about not speaking Flemish or French and will default to English almost too easily to the point you can't practice your target language. I found the Netherlands similar too.
...

Similar in Sweden.
I lived there for a year and made a big effort to learn Swedish before I went, "Forlat, ja pratar mycket liten Svenska"
But when I got there, everyone socially wanted to practice their English with me.
At work, all meetings were in English.
The lads at work suggested that the only way I was going to learn Swedish was to get a Swedish girlfriend.
Never one to ignore helpful advice, I duly got a Swedish girlfriend that weekend.
She was an English teacher.

SharpshooterTom

josip wrote: »

Similar in Sweden.
I lived there for a year and made a big effort to learn Swedish before I went, "Forlat, ja pratar mycket liten Svenska"
But when I got there, everyone socially wanted to practice their English with me.
At work, all meetings were in English.
The lads at work suggested that the only way I was going to learn Swedish was to get a Swedish girlfriend.
Never one to ignore helpful advice, I duly got a Swedish girlfriend that weekend.
She was an English teacher.

I was told by www.reddit.com/r/svenska and learners of other Scandinavian languages they will speak to you in their language if you politely ask or tell them you want to practise speaking Swedish etc.

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

If you to have a good experience it will be better with the language.

Germans, no matter how good their English is will always prefer to speak German.

A group of Germans will speak German together and you'll be excluded from that.

Your life there will be a lot better and enriched if you make attempts to learn the language.

I don't get this "would be fine" attitude, sounds lazy and ignorant to me.

I explained that to a friend who was living abroad. In a country with probably one of the easiest languages to learn coming from English. I told him the locals probably find him quite rude and ignorant "Nah sure they all speak English" he says. Couldn't understand why he couldn't get more than 2 dates with local girls. I tried explaining that it's probably because he doesn't speak their language. Are they want to go somewhere on a date where they have to do the talking to wait staff or whatever? Or if they're thinking down the line about hanging out with friends.
I'd be embarrassed to constantly be asking people serving me to repeat stuff in English after a few months let alone a few years.

Mad_maxx

Alaninwondeand wrote: »

If I was single id live in Lithuania.

Polands little brother

Mad_maxx

blueskys wrote: »

Portugal all day long..

+ 1

i adored Lisbon , Portugese people are lovely

LimeFruitGum

I'd be open to it - France, Germany or Austria as I studied French & German at 3rd level. They're a bit rusty, but I would prefer to ramp up
French or German than learn a new language from scratch. I do like the idea of spending a year or two in Vienna.

I don't want to be out in the sticks, I don't see the point in moving to the French equivalent of Carlow (don't @ me) or wherever. I would want to be in or near a decent-sized city where there are good connections for travelling, and doesn't have a massive Anglophone ex-pat scene.

Switzerland.

darragh o meara

Would love to live in France for at least a few years of my life. We go there as a family most years and I love the way of life over there. My French is OK and I can get by in most situations that I’ve encountered so far, but overly willing and as me to improve my skills which is easy when your around it all the time. A few years ago I was speaking with a native and he was impressed that I had some French but kept laughing when I spoke, eventually he told me that the French I had learned in school was actually an old way of speaking akin to us speaking Shakespearean English.

LimeFruitGum

Deleted User wrote: »

Are they want to go somewhere on a date where they have to do the talking to wait staff or whatever? Or if they're thinking down the line about hanging out with friends.
I'd be embarrassed to constantly be asking people serving me to repeat stuff in English after a few months let alone a few years.

Oh same here! I knew plenty of Irish people when I lived in Munich who had feck-all intention of learning German beyond "ein Bier bitte", and who had lived there long enough that there was no good excuse.

It's all very well handling the orders when you're on holiday, but to do it all the time when you're in their country is going to get seriously annoying. That's a lot to ask of a non-native English speaker every day, on top of the romantic relationship.

Yurt2

SharpshooterTom wrote: »

I was told by www.reddit.com/r/svenska and learners of other Scandinavian languages they will speak to you in their language if you politely ask or tell them you want to practise speaking Swedish etc.

The classic language battle. When you're an improver in the language but not quite there yet and the native speaker won't budge from speaking English.

This is a weird one and something a lot of language learners run into, particularly in certain countries.

In my experience politeness doesn't even work the only option is to double-down and get really good at your target language to stop this happening. Be it through talking to your cat in the language and particularly getting everyday patter and slang smooth. Eventually you'll hit a breakthrough where natives will stop trying to shoehorn English in there (even if they think they're being helpful or flexing on you).

Fatnacho

Copenhagen is a great city. Scandinavian but with some strong Germanic influences. Stylish restaurants/bars, strong infrastructure, lots of English speakers, nice historic centre and the locals love a beer. Expensive but manageable if you do a bit of research.

LimeFruitGum

LimeFruitGum wrote: »

Oh same here! I knew plenty of Irish people when I lived in Munich who had feck-all intention of learning German beyond "ein Bier bitte", and who had lived there long enough that there was no good excuse.

It's all very well handling the orders when you're on holiday, but to do it all the time when you're in their country is going to get seriously annoying. That's a lot to ask of a non-native English speaker every day, on top of the romantic relationship.

Yeah I always find on holidays in Europe if I try to speak the language they'll usually respond in English, they're happy to help and I'm sure they appreciate the practice. Except in French-speaking areas. **** those people. :P
But if I'm going to spend more than a week or two somewhere I'll do some proper prep and I'll make a proper effort while there.

Hermy

murpho999 wrote: »

My first Dutch birthday "party" was a big cultural shock.

Why so? No beer?

branie2

If I did, it might be Spain

ILoveYourVibes

Hell yes

Spain or Italy maybe south of france .

Rodin

Id spend winters somewhere nicer, drier and brighter. So Southern Europe.

completedit

Rodin wrote: »

Id spend winters somewhere nicer, drier and brighter. So Southern Europe.

I spent 2 months in Malaga back a couple of years ago. Honestly maybe I just love long roasting summer days too much but it was pretty grim. I had been there the previous summer and the vibes were amazing. When I returned everyone had returned to Madrid and it was windswept and isolated. Do miss the place though. Have a weird fondness for the drunken donuts stall near the port.

It's crazy how cold Europe gets even as far south as Bulgaria and Greece. My friend is from Sofia and the weather there fluctuates so much. Can be 17 and then - 12 a few days later.

feargale

Hamachi wrote: »

Very true. Two years is really pushing the bounds of credibility. Work colleagues will expect you to be reasonably functional after a year.

Can’t speak for other countries, but Germans are generally quite distant initially, but are really terrific friends when you pierce the outer shell. You’re never going to be accepted, unless you show commitment to the country by learning the language.

I've never met anyone from the Ruhr area that I would go out of my way to meet again. On the other hand, anyone I've ever met from the north-west, Hamburg, Bremen, Lubeck, Schleswig-Holstein in general couldn't be nicer.

Theman343

Hallstatt in Austria amazing place.

feargale

mrasgar wrote: »

Istanbul, Turkey could be a good option as well to live for a while.

Turkish is easy to pick up, people are very friendly, cost of living really low. The downside is wages are low as well in most jobs, so not such a good place to make money but more for the quality of life.

Interesting city, but I hope you're a teetotaller.

I would love the experience of living somewhere on continental Europe; the main obstacle for me comes in terms of securing employment with a language barrier. I've travelled to a few countries and there isn't anywhere I'd immediately rule out, though ideally I would love a move to Germany as I've become a bit of a Germanophile over the past few years (which has really made me regret my decision to do French in secondary school rather than German).

I've visited a few places in Spain and really liked the way of life over there; my Spanish is not particularly good, however.

feargale

Yurt! wrote: »

I've found Oslo to be a seriously boring place for a capital city. Most meh capital in Europe for my money. And the price of things is bonkers.

Only stuff that is accompanied by service, e.g. food, drink and accomodation. Other items are no more expensive than Ireland,

Yurt!

Yurt! wrote: »

I've found Oslo to be a seriously boring place for a capital city. Most meh capital in Europe for my money. And the price of things is bonkers.

Never been to Norway but I've heard that about Oslo. I've heard Bergen is meant to be really nice, though. Ultimately Norway probably isn't a country you go to for a city break, it's all about the breathtaking scenery.

Strumms

I’ve lived and worked in France and spent a lot of time there subsequently both holidays (yearly) plus the odd work trip...

I’d go back, I love it, although it’s expensive, especially Paris and Nice where I was so you’d need a well paying job, 55 grand a year minimum to obtain a ‘quality’ and enjoyable lifestyle while saving some and paying rent / mortgage, food, clothing, utility bills.

I had a job with the OECD in Paris, I was asked to stay there after my contract expired but the wages were cack although the work was easy... piss easy..

Apart from one boss ( who was Irish ) I was treated brilliantly, by management, colleagues, contractors...

BorneTobyWilde

Would have to be coastal, maybe along the Med. Some small hidden gems there.