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Gordon Elliott

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    #122
    wardides
    Registered Users Posts: 768 ✭✭✭wardides


    greyday wrote: »
    There was no cruelty here, a spur of the moment foolish act is no where near cruelty, he would not have the winners he has if he was in any way cruel to his horses.
    The person that released this photo just before Cheltenham rather than at the time of the incident should have a good look in the mirror as it looks to have been calculated to do the utmost damage to his reputation, why not release it at the time?

    The horse is dead. He died on the gallops. That is the cruelty element to the outside viewer looking in. He's basically putting the 2 fingers up at the response from the industry which is generally that these horses are treated with utmost respect & care (which I do believe majority are).

    The numbers of winners he has, or anybody has, should also not be used as leverage as to how much welfare is shown to his animals. They're not people, they react to fear at times as much as they do love & affection unfortunately.

    In regards to timing of it, who cares. Sport can't feel sorry for itself due to timing, he shouldn't have put himself in the situation. Even if himself, or other trainers, are desensitised to the incidents such as this, which I feel is probably the case.


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    #123
    greyday
    Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭greyday


    nsnoefc1878 wrote: »
    That is cruelty, there is no 'or'.

    Where is the cruelty?
    The horse died on the gallop from a heart issue, a photo was taken which was in bad taste, a spur of the moment stupid schoolboy act but no cruelty was involved whatsoever.


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    #124
    th hen
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭th hen


    I think the whole racing world knows what went on with him and inside his stables and a very scourned woman who comes from racing royalty as such. It's a combination of a lot of things and he's let himself down as a trainer and person . He's a duty of care to his animals and staff..... He lost touch with the small man with his success and coming back to bite him now


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    #125
    Motivator
    Registered Users Posts: 2,750 ✭✭✭Motivator


    greyday wrote: »
    Where is the cruelty?
    The horse died on the gallop from a heart issue, a photo was taken which was in bad taste, a spur of the moment stupid schoolboy act but no cruelty was involved whatsoever.

    With respect, you’re in absolutely no position to deny any cruelty was involved. I’m not saying it had anything to do with animal cruelty but you’re a joe soap, same as any of the rest of us, who has about as much knowledge of this as anyone else and that’s zero. Twitter was flooded with experts yesterday laughing at the photo saying it wasn’t real and Gordon wouldn’t ever do anything like that. Different story today.


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    #126
    greyday
    Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭greyday


    wardides wrote: »
    The horse is dead. He died on the gallops. That is the cruelty element to the outside viewer looking in. He's basically putting the 2 fingers up at the response from the industry which is generally that these horses are treated with utmost respect & care (which I do believe majority are).

    The numbers of winners he has, or anybody has, should also not be used as leverage as to how much welfare is shown to his animals. They're not people, they react to fear at times as much as they do love & affection unfortunately.

    In regards to timing of it, who cares. Sport can't feel sorry for itself due to timing, he shouldn't have put himself in the situation. Even if himself, or other trainers, are desensitised to the incidents such as this, which I feel is probably the case.

    You mistreat a horse you will almost certainly sour him, it can be hard enough to keep them sound without throwing mistreatment into the ring, he was stupid and allowed himself to be photographed in a stupid insensitive situation but there should be absolutely no mention of cruelty from that photo.


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    #127
    wardides
    Registered Users Posts: 768 ✭✭✭wardides


    greyday wrote: »
    Where is the cruelty?
    The horse died on the gallop from a heart issue, a photo was taken which was in bad taste, a spur of the moment stupid schoolboy act but no cruelty was involved whatsoever.

    For someone involved in the industry or has a large interest in the sport, I agree there was no cruelty regarding the horses death. But for the reputation of the sport, which fundamentally the sport relies on to survive, it will be viewed as cruelty. Any horse dying on a race track, to a large proportion of the public eye, is cruel. And we don't need one of the most high profile trainers sitting on a dead corpse whilst we also shout about how their looked after impeccably.


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    #128
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    Mimon wrote: »
    Putting aside how serious or not it is the excuse is ridiculous. You get a call and you sit down on a dead animal? FFS!

    He would have been better to come out and said it was a stupid moment of tomfoolery and it does not represent how he respects his animals etc.

    I have no respect for him for his actions, but at least he admitted it. You're right in saying it doesn't represent how he respects animals, it clearly represents how he disrespects animals in his care.

    Rumours of a video on the way too.


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    #129
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    greyday wrote: »
    Where is the cruelty?
    The horse died on the gallop from a heart issue, a photo was taken which was in bad taste, a spur of the moment stupid schoolboy act but no cruelty was involved whatsoever.


    Exactly. I cannot see what the fuss is about. He sat on a horse that was already dead and took a phone call, what is the big deal. I wonder will the 'outraged' among us decide to not back Elliots horses from now on, I doubt it somehow.


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    #130
    greyday
    Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭greyday


    Motivator wrote: »
    With respect, you’re in absolutely no position to deny any cruelty was involved. I’m not saying it had anything to do with animal cruelty but you’re a joe soap, same as any of the rest of us, who has about as much knowledge of this as anyone else and that’s zero. Twitter was flooded with experts yesterday laughing at the photo saying it wasn’t real and Gordon wouldn’t ever do anything like that. Different story today.

    Fortunately I had a couple of horse's in training with Gordon, I am in a better position than most ordinary Joe Soaps to voice an opinion, I certainly wont not voice my opinion because of what other people said yesterday, the day before or last year for that matter.


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    #131
    greyday
    Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭greyday


    wardides wrote: »
    For someone involved in the industry or has a large interest in the sport, I agree there was no cruelty regarding the horses death. But for the reputation of the sport, which fundamentally the sport relies on to survive, it will be viewed as cruelty. Any horse dying on a race track, to a large proportion of the public eye, is cruel. And we don't need one of the most high profile trainers sitting on a dead corpse whilst we also shout about how their looked after impeccably.
    I agree a photo like this does harm the sport but we all need to be rational about what it actually is, stupid ill advised schoolboy act should not in anyone's eyes be
    confused with animal cruelty.


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    #132
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    A dead horse, a guy sitting on it and posing, joking, and the best you can come up with is "yeah but it's not cruel, sure how can you be cruel to a dead animal".

    Hope you don't work in PR, otherwise the sport is definitely dead. Do the sport a favour and stay quiet.


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    #133
    The Mig
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,034 Mod ✭✭✭✭The Mig


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    Exactly. I cannot see what the fuss is about. He sat on a horse that was already dead and took a phone call, what is the big deal. I wonder will the 'outraged' among us decide to not back Elliots horses from now on, I doubt it somehow.

    Smiling and posing whilst sitting on a dead horse for the photo and then his laughable excuse statement that he thought people would buy. Think it’s a pretty big fuss myself


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    #134
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    greyday wrote: »
    Where is the cruelty?
    The horse died on the gallop from a heart issue, a photo was taken which was in bad taste, a spur of the moment stupid schoolboy act but no cruelty was involved whatsoever.

    There are some absolutely extraordinary responses in this thread, many from people living in the industry bubble it seems. The idea that Elliot did nothing wrong, that there is nothing to see here, is absolutely incredible. These people do not realise that racing (and in particular National Hunt racing) is viewed as a bloodsport and its days are numbered. Stuff like this just hastens the end.

    Elliot worked this horse to death. For sport - not for agriculture, not for meat - for sport. Then he sat on its carcass and posed for a picture with a big stupid gurn on his face. Then he released a statement that is, frankly, an insult to the intelligence of anyone who read it. He might as well as scrawled "**** you" in crayon and released that.

    This is the very definition of cruelty and callousness. That there are people who cant see that around the sport just goes to show how far its gone. Put this alongside Russell punching horses and we are teetering close to the stuff that has destroyed the greyhound industry already. Cue the usual picture of a bunch of outraged toffs shocked that their sport has met its demise in about 15 years from now, just like we have with the hunting set.

    The racing boards need to go nuclear with the response here.


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    #135
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    greyday wrote: »
    I agree a photo like this does harm the sport but we all need to be rational about what it actually is, stupid ill advised schoolboy act should not in anyone's eyes be
    confused with animal cruelty.
    The only people who should have allowances made for committing "schoolboy acts" are schoolboys - because they are not mature enough to know better.


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    #136
    wardides
    Registered Users Posts: 768 ✭✭✭wardides


    greyday wrote: »
    I agree a photo like this does harm the sport but we all need to be rational about what it actually is, stupid ill advised schoolboy act should not in anyone's eyes be
    confused with animal cruelty.

    I get that, but the sport in itself is deemed as animal cruelty from outside in. This certainly doesn't help. I love the sport. Know people involved, and see the love & affection these animals receive. But this needs to be addressed. It goes right against the theory of love & respect. Particularly for those within. JP, Gigginstown etc maybe not as the vol of horses coming through their books are huge, but if you were a smaller owner and this was your horse, and built a bond up and saw this was the reaction to it passing suddenly, I think you'd be fairly pissed off.

    Actually I've seen JP reacting to a horse passing, I can't imagine he'd be delighted with this either.


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    #137
    greyday
    Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭greyday


    jakiah wrote: »
    There are some absolutely extraordinary responses in this thread, many from people living in the industry bubble it seems. The idea that Elliot did nothing wrong, that there is nothing to see here, is absolutely incredible. These people do not realise that racing (and in particular National Hunt racing) is viewed as a bloodsport and its days are numbered. Stuff like this just hastens the end.

    Elliot worked this horse to death. For sport - not for agriculture, not for meat - for sport. Then he sat on its carcass and posed for a picture with a big stupid gurn on his face. Then he released a statement that is, frankly, an insult to the intelligence of anyone who read it. He might as well as scrawled "**** you" in crayon and released that.

    This is the very definition of cruelty and callousness. That there are people who cant see that around the sport just goes to show how far its gone. Put this alongside Russell punching horses and we are teetering close to the stuff that has destroyed the greyhound industry already. Cue the usual picture of a bunch of outraged toffs shocked that their sport has met its demise in about 15 years from now, just like we have with the hunting set.

    The racing boards need to go nuclear with the response here.

    Viewed as a bloodsport by a minority of people who have no idea of rural life while they eat their bacon every morning, how can you be cruel to a dead horse?
    I suppose when he calls a horse leary he is slandering him too, is he?


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    #138
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users Posts: 8,136 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    Sean Worried Memory wrote: »
    A dead horse, a guy sitting on it and posing, joking, and the best you can come up with is "yeah but it's not cruel, sure how can you be cruel to a dead animal".

    Hope you don't work in PR, otherwise the sport is definitely dead. Do the sport a favour and stay quiet.

    'Posing' , 'Joking', where did you pluck that from. I'd say you definitely work in PR !


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    #139
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,772 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Sean Worried Memory wrote: »
    A dead horse, a guy sitting on it and posing, joking, and the best you can come up with is "yeah but it's not cruel, sure how can you be cruel to a dead animal".

    Hope you don't work in PR, otherwise the sport is definitely dead. Do the sport a favour and stay quiet.


    Betfair pulled out now. Obviously not good PR.


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    #140
    Shemale
    Registered Users Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Shemale


    Hoboo wrote: »
    I have no respect for him for his actions, but at least he admitted it. You're right in saying it doesn't represent how he respects animals, it clearly represents how he disrespects animals in his care.

    Rumours of a video on the way too.

    He didn't have an option and he didn't really admit it either, my phone rang and I standing on my gallops, I sat down not realising that I didn't have a bench in the middle of the gallop, someone took a picture, I turned smiling to someone else and gestured 2 minutes.

    Give me a break


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    #141
    StupidLikeAFox
    Registered Users Posts: 7,698 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    jakiah wrote: »
    There are some absolutely extraordinary responses in this thread, many from people living in the industry bubble it seems. The idea that Elliot did nothing wrong, that there is nothing to see here, is absolutely incredible. .
    Doubt anybody is saying he did nothing wrong, it was a stupid error of judgement, trying to play the jack the lad. But people claiming that this will be the end of him, or the end of the sport are being a bit extreme no?
    jakiah wrote: »
    Elliot worked this horse to death. .
    I mean is that the real issue here? Surely horses die all the time, in yards and gallops up and down the country. If so thats a wider issue than the actual photo.

    Is the issue is he has shone a light on that aspect of the sport, rather than any perceived disrespect to the animal


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    #142
    Motivator
    Registered Users Posts: 2,750 ✭✭✭Motivator


    greyday wrote: »
    Fortunately I had a couple of horse's in training with Gordon, I am in a better position than most ordinary Joe Soaps to voice an opinion, I certainly wont not voice my opinion because of what other people said yesterday, the day before or last year for that matter.

    And I had a horse in training with a smaller trainer who has had absolutely no time for Elliott for quite a number of years, before all of the recent success and for reasons which were never disclosed to me. There’s a code of honour with trainers and to be fair, there was never any stories told but it wasn’t a secret that he isn’t liked and that didn’t apply to this one trainer.

    Gordon is a tremendous trainer, he’s gifted And should be lauded for what he’s achieved from literally nothing. However he needs to take the bad with the good and absolutely nothing can be said that can justify what he did. There just isn’t anything that can dress it up. He deserves everything he gets and as the morning goes on the rumour mill is kicking into high gear. This is going to be a long week for the industry as a whole.


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    #143
    jakiah
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭jakiah


    greyday wrote: »
    Viewed as a bloodsport by a minority of people who have no idea of rural life while they eat their bacon every morning, how can you be cruel to a dead horse?
    I suppose when he calls a horse leary he is slandering him too, is he?

    The same ignorant self-righteous crap that all the other bloodsports used to spout before they were banned. And they weren't massively funded from the public purse. If this is the prevalent attitude within the racing industry it'll be over much quicker than I thought.


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    #144
    wardides
    Registered Users Posts: 768 ✭✭✭wardides


    "We are truly horrified and dismayed by the photograph doing the rounds on social media however, we will await the official outcome of the investigation by the IHRB, which we trust will be swift, before making any further comment/decisions."

    Cheveley park statement. Not sure when the IHRB will make a call, but imagine they will all be shifted to Willie post decision, as I'd think the IRHB will come down hard.


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    #145
    Kauto
    Registered Users Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Kauto


    Whoever released the photo(seems to be the same name going round) has damaged the sport immensely of which they are a part off.

    I highly doubt he/she will be well received over the coming months and I'd say her mother is fuming!! Put a lot of jobs at risk.


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    #146
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    realdanbreen wrote: »
    'Posing' , 'Joking', where did you pluck that from. I'd say you definitely work in PR !
    The fact that he is posing with a big gurn on his face, and the fact that the picture is captioned with a joke.

    So yes, posing and joking.


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    #147
    XLR 8
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭XLR 8


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    Lets get real, 99% of trainer could not careless about the horse they use, and of course he will come out with some PC remark to make it sound like he cares, but they don't. I know a horse trainer who would not even waste a bullet on a horse that was no good, he attacked it with a JCB instead and killed it.
    That's what these trainers are like.

    Just curious as to what the Gardai said when you reported the above to them ??


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    #148
    Messi19
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭Messi19


    Plasandrunt wrote: »
    who has Gordon rumoured to have got pregnant? I presume it's not for a public board so would appreciate a PM

    If I played for Man Utd I'd absolutely HATE CARRINGTON too


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    #149
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kauto wrote: »
    Whoever released the photo(seems to be the same name going round) has damaged the sport immensely of which they are a part off.

    I highly doubt he/she will be well received over the coming months and I'd say her mother is fuming!! Put a lot of jobs at risk.
    Elliott is the one who has damaged the sport.


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    #150
    Dodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,167 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Kauto wrote: »
    Whoever released the photo(seems to be the same name going round) has damaged the sport immensely of which they are a part off.

    I highly doubt he/she will be well received over the coming months and I'd say her mother is fuming!! Put a lot of jobs at risk.

    It’s always the whistleblowers fault...


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    #151
    wardides
    Registered Users Posts: 768 ✭✭✭wardides


    Kauto wrote: »
    Whoever released the photo(seems to be the same name going round) has damaged the sport immensely of which they are a part off.

    I highly doubt he/she will be well received over the coming months and I'd say her mother is fuming!! Put a lot of jobs at risk.

    Assuming you're hinting that this was leaked by KH. I don't think she would do so, far too engrained in the sport.


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