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Wales vs England

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    #362
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    The ball went forward. The ball touched the ground before the original player caught it. Its a knock on.
    It was going backwards from when it last touched the player. Not a knock on. We can do this all night. I reckon the best thing here is wait for Wayne Barnes to do his thing that he does after every weekend's matches and see what he has to say about it. I knew this would be interesting from the moment that he went to thee TMO on it.


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    #363
    theVersatile
    Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    paddy no 11 wrote: »
    It went forward without hitting the ground or another player, it hit the ground travelling backwards - it's a try

    You literally just contradicted yourself...
    prawnsambo wrote: »
    It was going backwards from when it last touched the player. Not a knock on. We can do this all night. I reckon the best thing here is wait for Wayne Barnes to do his thing that he does after every weekend's matches and see what he has to say about it. I knew this would be interesting from the moment that he went to thee TMO on it.

    Once again, irrelevant. Lost possession of the ball forwards - the fact it hit him in the back of the leg and bounced backwards does not make it not a knock on...


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    #364
    Richie_Rich89
    Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Richie_Rich89


    I think for it to be a knock-on it has to hit teh ground or another player after it's come forward from your hands, arms or upper body. It came off his leg, so no knock on.


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    #365
    Scratchly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭Scratchly


    Where does this idea that it has to hit the ground or another player come from? I've seen it reffed like that but I don't see it mentioned in the laws.

    I've also seen it called forward when players lose control and put a boot to it.


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    #366
    paddy no 11
    Registered Users Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭paddy no 11


    Scratchly wrote: »
    Where does this idea that it has to hit the ground or another player come from? I've seen it reffed like that but I don't see it mentioned in the laws.

    I've also seen it called forward when players lose control and put a boot to it.

    The idea is you call it comes from the rule


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    #367
    Scratchly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭Scratchly


    paddy no 11 wrote: »
    The idea is you call it comes from the rule

    What rule?

    Edit: Found it. It's in a clarification not the actual laws. Nevermind. Pretty clear then by that clarification. He lost the ball forward and hit the ground before he could regather.


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    #368
    randomname2005
    Registered Users Posts: 1,932 ✭✭✭randomname2005


    Scratchly wrote: »
    What rule?

    Edit: Found it. It's in a clarification not the actual laws. Nevermind. Pretty clear then by that clarification. He lost the ball forward and hit the ground before he could regather.

    Can you post a link to end this discussion as an uncited reference won't help too much?


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    #369
    Lost Ormond
    Registered Users Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭Lost Ormond


    Scratchly wrote: »
    Where does this idea that it has to hit the ground or another player come from? I've seen it reffed like that but I don't see it mentioned in the laws.

    I've also seen it called forward when players lose control and put a boot to it.
    This is the definition of a knock on in the law book
    https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/definitions
    When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.


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    #370
    D.Q
    Registered Users Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭D.Q


    Will we finally get one back on England this year


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    #371
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,961 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    swiwi_ wrote: »
    Sure that interviewer shouldn’t get online abuse but she is pure shîte at post match interviews. She seems to want to ask goading type questions, no wonder not ever taken seriously.

    Is she the interviewer that tried to goad Steve Hansen in 2016 after the ABs beat Ireland and he called her on it? Or was that someone else?


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    #372
    razorblunt
    Registered Users Posts: 17,300 ✭✭✭✭razorblunt


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Is she the interviewer that tried to goad Steve Hansen in 2016 after the ABs beat Ireland and he called her on it? Or was that someone else?

    No 2016 was with RTE, similar approach though, leading questions.
    She also had a run in with BOD over something recently and I can’t recall what.

    From what I saw last night the vast majority of comments were made about here not to her. So she’s either getting a load of DMs or she’s searching for her own name.


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    #373
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,134 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    razorblunt wrote: »
    No 2016 was with RTE, similar approach though, leading questions.
    She also had a run in with BOD over something recently and I can’t recall what.

    From what I saw last night the vast majority of comments were made about here not to her. So she’s either getting a load of DMs or she’s searching for her own name.

    There was loads of tweets @ing her which were abusive


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    #374
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,236 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    waynescales1 wrote: »
    I think that the direction which the ball is moving in, after the player loses possession is the only relevant one. This direction is backwards, as when the ball is moving forwards LRZ is still attempting to gain control of the ball, therefore still technically in possession. Surely the ball cannot be considered knocked on and in a player’s possession at the same time? When the ball hit his leg, he was still attempting to gain control of it.

    The moment when the player loses possession, i.e. ceases to be attempting to gain control of the ball, is when it touches the ground or another player. The direction was backwards when this occurred.
    The direction the ball is traveling when it hits the ground/another player/body part is not the deciding factor. The deciding factor is the direction it travels when it leaves the players hands


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    #375
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,236 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    You have the exact circumstances. You don't need to know intention as refs don't either. Unless I've missed the bit in games where the ref asks a player whether he intended to catch the ball or not. So when you've quite finished with the sophistry, answer the question. Or you can ignore it again, it's all the same to me.

    Refs do need to ‘know’/judge intentions, a deliberate knock on, is a penalty and often a Yellow card while an accidental knock on is a scrum only

    If LRZ had looked like he was in control of the ball and was attempting to knock it back via his thigh and shin then it would be a very different conversation but he clearly and obviously lost control of the ball when he knocked it forward and every other contact with the ball after that was just the physics of a tumbling rugby football


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    #376
    Bluwave
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭Bluwave


    D.Q wrote: »
    Will we finally get one back on England this year

    Doubtful.

    Beating Scotland will be a tough ask.


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    #377
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    Miss Nigel already

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/its-100-per-cent-knock-19932005?fbclid=IwAR1jc81id9numF3Tbs1KLNCBO0k2GKOE35KtgVKrMsR7Ssw2yJf-L-Ad6SI


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    #378
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    D.Q wrote: »
    Will we finally get one back on England this year

    The England that play like men possessed will be the England that shows up to Dublin as they usually do.


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    #379
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    I still can’t get over how people are debating weather it was a knock on or not, he lost control of the ball and never regained control and eventually it touched the ground meaning it’s a knock on. As Nigel said LRZ’s face said it all when the try was given.


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    #380
    theVersatile
    Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    Miss Nigel already

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/its-100-per-cent-knock-19932005?fbclid=IwAR1jc81id9numF3Tbs1KLNCBO0k2GKOE35KtgVKrMsR7Ssw2yJf-L-Ad6SI

    Common sense prevails.


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    #381
    PokeHerKing
    Registered Users Posts: 4,234 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    The England that play like men possessed will be the England that shows up to Dublin as they usually do.

    We tend to say this about the French and Kiwis as well. In reality the common denominator is a $hit Irish performance...


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    #382
    StevenToast
    Registered Users Posts: 3,365 ✭✭✭StevenToast


    Ireland v England fighting over the wooden spoon (Italy dont count) and wales going for a grand slam....

    You couldnt make it up!

    "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." - Fletcher



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    #383
    penybont exile
    Registered Users Posts: 732 ✭✭✭penybont exile


    Wales @ rugby ......... rarely boring.

    Great result yesterday ..... always a pleasant feeling to put one over the old enemy.

    Well deserved victory though we did get a bit of fortune in the first half. That's sport .... we've been on the wrong end of some contentious decisions in this fixture in recent history.

    Before the game yesterday I looked at our bench & theirs & concluded that ours was a lot stronger. I think this was evidenced during the final quarter.

    I was quietly confident before the game .... England obviously have some good players but the Saracens situation is a problem for them. On the other hand we were on the back of two wins which in any sport breeds confidence. I had a laugh before the game watching the TV3 anchor man (not sure of his name) blah-blahring about Wales on a role; doing their thing & believing their 'own hype' ...... I thought to myself you need to look a lot closer to home for that kinda crap .....

    Anyway onwards to Rome .... looking @ Italy yesterday we should have too much for them.

    So then Paris ...... hopefully the French get their house in order & fulfill the fixture ..... it could be a great match especially if they beat England.


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    #384
    swiwi_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,474 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    UAEguy2020 wrote: »
    Miss Nigel already

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/its-100-per-cent-knock-19932005?fbclid=IwAR1jc81id9numF3Tbs1KLNCBO0k2GKOE35KtgVKrMsR7Ssw2yJf-L-Ad6SI

    Was hoping to see some saucy pics of Miss Nigel...


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    #385
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,906 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    Dropped it onto his leg though so it's not a knock on? Every kick you throw the ball forward before you kick it.


    The law is quite clear. If you drop the ball forward you must regather the ball and regain control of it before it hits the ground or it is a knock on. He fumbled the ball and it went forward in motion and hit his leg before hitting the ground. It is clearly a knock on.


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    #386
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,906 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    Paul Smeenus wrote: »
    100%. We've all watched players juggle a ball forward bad then catch it.
    That is the key to what is not a knock on.....you catch the ball and regather it before it hits the ground. Zammit didn't. He knocked the ball forward and it ended up on the ground...not regathered as the law requires. K.O. all day.


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    #387
    CMcsporty
    Registered Users Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭CMcsporty


    penybont exile wrote: »
    Wales @ rugby ......... rarely boring.

    Great result yesterday ..... always a pleasant feeling to put one over the old enemy.

    Well deserved victory though we did get a bit of fortune in the first half. That's sport .... we've been on the wrong end of some contentious decisions in this fixture in recent history.

    Before the game yesterday I looked at our bench & theirs & concluded that ours was a lot stronger. I think this was evidenced during the final quarter.

    I was quietly confident before the game .... England obviously have some good players but the Saracens situation is a problem for them. On the other hand we were on the back of two wins which in any sport breeds confidence. I had a laugh before the game watching the TV3 anchor man (not sure of his name) blah-blahring about Wales on a role; doing their thing & believing their 'own hype' ...... I thought to myself you need to look a lot closer to home for that kinda crap .....

    Anyway onwards to Rome .... looking @ Italy yesterday we should have too much for them.

    So then Paris ...... hopefully the French get their house in order & fulfill the fixture ..... it could be a great match especially if they beat England.

    Congratulations
    Wales and England showed allot of grit and class yesterday.

    Pivac has had the rub of the green this 6N but his decision to pick Hardy (2nd Cap!) at SH this wk and replace Biggar early for Sheedy last week have been richly rewarded.

    Both having made their debuts in the Autumn Cup

    In contrast Ireland played an abject Italy with Sexton playing the full 80.
    Casey making his debut off the bench for 18mins after BP.
    Burns who made his debut in the Autumn came on at 12??

    The point is Pivac realised Wales were in a mess after the 6N and took drastic drastic action.

    Got rid of the defence coach, Byron Hayward, less than a year into the job but said
    “the decision was taken to get planning for the 2023 World Cup back on track.”

    Pivac went into the Autumn with a new defence coach and caped both halfbacks who were instrumental in the win v England.

    He looks like a good head coach and selector.


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    #388
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,016 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    France won 50 - 10 and everyone here was in awe of their attack and how good they looked

    We win 48 - 10 and have 3 more ruled out by the TMO and we're a shambles, not good enough, coaches out


    Some people just haven't a fcuking clue.


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    #389
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,847 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Why wasn't there this level of debate about england's even clearer knock on against italy that changed he game entirely?


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    #390
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,016 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    CMcsporty wrote: »
    Pivac has had the rub of the green this 6N but his decision to pick Hardy (2nd Cap!) at SH this wk and replace Biggar early for Sheedy last week have been richly rewarded.

    Both having made their debuts in the Autumn Cup

    In contrast Ireland played an abject Italy with Sexton playing the full 80.
    Casey making his debut off the bench for 18mins after BP.
    Burns who made his debut in the Autumn came on at 12??
    .

    have you any idea why sexton played 80 yesterday???


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    #391
    OldRio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,918 ✭✭✭OldRio


    Weepsie wrote: »
    Why wasn't there this level of debate about england's even clearer knock on against italy that changed he game entirely?

    In fairness it was discussed. As well as all the other obvious blunders by the inept officials.

    However anyone who has played Rugby or watched Rugby for any number of years can't see that Wales second try was a knock on is bewildering. I'm utterly speechless that it was given. (In my eyes the first try was disgraceful as well)
    The standard of refereeing and TMO in this competition should be a worry for everyone concerned.


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