Covid 19 Part XXXIII-231,484 ROI(4,610 deaths)116,197 NI (2,107 deaths)(23/03)Read OP

Goldengirl

Cork2021 wrote: »

Question...

So does anyone here think Level 5 is working?

Stopping cases going up ..what's your option?

Monster249

Cork2021 wrote: »

Question...

So does anyone here think Level 5 is working?

Yeah it definitely works, the reduction in cases proves that. The problem is, they've used it way too frequently throughout the last year and it's effectiveness is starting to reduce now and will keep reducing from here on out because of less compliance.

titan18

Cork2021 wrote: »

Question...

So does anyone here think Level 5 is working?

It worked for a while but it's effect is lessening a lot as we're all fed up.

I think if we relaxed some restrictions it might actually help at this stage. If you allow hairdressers, outdoor sports, click and collect, move to inter county instead of 5k etc.

Like just from where I am in cork city, there's nowhere to go and avoid people in a 5k radius to exercise unless you go at odd hours. I pretty much do my exercise after 8pm as the few parks we have ate packed during the day.

Icyseanfitz

theballz wrote: »

In the park beside my house, young people were drinking until all hours this morning. Garda didn’t bother dealing with them

Young people have given up

cant ****ing blame them at this stage to be honest, we are ran by a bunch of spineless cowardly incompetents, shock and horror that cases are rising after schools being nearly fully returned for 2 weeks :rolleyes: who'd have thought

DellyBelly

Cork2021 wrote: »

Question...

So does anyone here think Level 5 is working?

Yes.. We've gone from 6000 cases to less than 600 daily rate so you can't argue it isn't doing what it's supposed to be doing..

shtpEdthePlum

titan18 wrote: »

It worked for a while but it's effect is lessening a lot as we're all fed up.

I think if we relaxed some restrictions it might actually help at this stage. If you allow hairdressers, outdoor sports, click and collect, move to inter county instead of 5k etc.

Like just from where I am in cork city, there's nowhere to go and avoid people in a 5k radius to exercise unless you go at odd hours. I pretty much do my exercise after 8pm as the few parks we have ate packed during the day.

Absolutely same. The city is just absolutely packed. It's hard to avoid people. We have so few cases. When more things open up, people aren't just aimlessly packed into their 5k. They feck off out of my way. God I hate everyone around here so much. This time last year I was fully sure they'd all be dead by now.







(completely joking obv)

snotboogie

titan18 wrote: »

It worked for a while but it's effect is lessening a lot as we're all fed up.

I think if we relaxed some restrictions it might actually help at this stage. If you allow hairdressers, outdoor sports, click and collect, move to inter county instead of 5k etc.

Like just from where I am in cork city, there's nowhere to go and avoid people in a 5k radius to exercise unless you go at odd hours. I pretty much do my exercise after 8pm as the few parks we have ate packed during the day.

Tramore Valley Park is usually not too packed if you are close to Douglas.

Hairdressers seem riskier than non essential retail to me. You are spending a lot of time indoors with a person outside of your bubble who will in turn spend the same amount of time with dozens more that day.

Maestro85

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

cant ****ing blame them at this stage to be honest, we are ran by a bunch of spineless cowardly incompetents, shock and horror that cases are rising after schools being nearly fully returned for 2 weeks :rolleyes: who'd have thought

I genuinely have not seen the gardai in my area for over a month. I haven't been stopped at a checkpoint since last year. Mind you it is a rural part of the country but still, you'd think there would be more presence since we have a sizable garda station in a town less than 20km from me.

Cork2021

Goldengirl wrote: »

Stopping cases going up ..what's your option?

Just seeing what people think at the moment. We’re going nowhere in terms of cases but on a downward trend with hospital admissions and deaths which is good.
We’ve 3 counties driving the case numbers Dublin, Meath Kildare.
Cork Kilkenny and Leitrim all have incidence rates of less then 50 but have the same restrictions as Dublin who’s incidence rate 227 per 100,000.
Will a spate of regional level 2/3’s help get other counties to push and get to that level instead of indefinite level 5???

almostover

Cork2021 wrote: »

Question...

So does anyone here think Level 5 is working?

Lockdown only works with public buy-in. It's not a long term solution as evident in recent weeks.

Stheno

gansi wrote: »

Level four says ‘ you should not travel outside your county.’ This implies you can travel within your county does it not.
Level two says ‘ travel within Ireland.’

travel within your county is not intercounty travel

titan18

snotboogie wrote: »

Tramore Valley Park is usually not too packed if you are close to Douglas.

Hairdressers seem riskier than non essential retail to me. You are spending a lot of time indoors with a person outside of your bubble who will in turn spend the same amount of time with dozens more that day.

Need a car to get to Tramore Valley Park though. Unless I'm going to go walk on the link road.

Lough is the closest to me and that's jammed during daylight hours.

To me, and it seems to nearly every other country, hairdressers are safe. It's one of the first to reopen and some don't seem to close them unless absolutely necessary (like schools for us). If everyone else sees them as one of the first to reopen, I don't see what makes it different here. You and the hairdresser are masked like and you can keep all windows and doors open easier in these months ensuring lots of ventilation. I'd accept an outdoor haircut at this stage.

Jim_Hodge

Maestro85 wrote: »

I genuinely have not seen the gardai in my area for over a month. I haven't been stopped at a checkpoint since last year. Mind you it is a rural part of the country but still, you'd think there would be more presence since we have a sizable garda station in a town less than 20km from me.

Rural here and I see them most days.

Lv. 5 lockdown worked when people believed in it. Think of last March.

Like an alcoholic drink, the more you take the less effect it has over time. Lv. 5 has been omni-used throughout the last year and this has directly led to a reduction in compliance.

What's shocking - deeply shocking, in fact - is that those in charge, NPHET, could not have predicted this very predictable outcome - perhaps the most predictable outcome throughout the entire pandemic.

But rather than give it up, they double down - and so Lv. 5 must last even longer, and longer, and longer, until it achieves the desired effect, what it did last March. That way, they can give themselves a pat on the back that it "worked" because the public were finally, finally tamed.

The public will always be blamed, not the premature imposition of perma-lockdown by NPHET.

JRant

Goldengirl wrote: »

That in itself is why the infection rates are higher .
No blame just matter of fact ..19 to 24 year olds .
At some stage we have to call it and allow a certain level of infection circulate in those age groups , but because of the risk to so many who are not yet vaccinated we are stuck in limbo.
It is a risk to them too , from so many issues that are only beginning to be discovered month by month under the long Covid and long term effects umbrellas.

But at some stage it will be said, do we close down the country and our economy any longer , not to protect older people from dying or becoming severely ill because they will / are being vaccinated , but for a group of people who may be at risk of developing long term effects from an illness they don't believe is a problem to them ?
And are they mature enough to make that decision for their longterm health yet, even though they are old enough to vote ?
At the moment we can't let it RIP until the majority are vaccinated to prevent vocs taking over , but more and more we are hearing that some people don't care , don't believe Covid is much to worry about .
So when do the rest of us throw the towel in and say ," right so, get the virus / don't get it , we are protected so who cares anymore ? "

When we you say "we are protected so who cares anymore" what does that mean?
Have you been vaccinated?
Is it fair that due to your age or job you get a jab probably 4 months before a young person does?
Once you have your vaccine then to hell with those pesky youngsters.
Maybe we should have vaccinated the youngest people first to decrease the spread and let older people continue to isolate.

We have asked so much of our young people and in return they have received nothing but grief. They are by far the most affected by economic shutdowns. It's a credit to so many of them that we haven't seen more breaking of restrictions.

Cluedo Monopoly

Deleted User wrote: »

Lv. 5 lockdown worked when people believed in it. Think of last March.

Like an alcoholic drink, the more you take the less effect it has over time. Lv. 5 has been omni-used throughout the last year and this has directly led to a reduction in compliance.

What's shocking - deeply shocking, in fact - is that those in charge, NPHET, could not have predicted this very predictable outcome - perhaps the most predictable outcome throughout the entire pandemic.

But rather than give it up, they double down - and so Lv. 5 must last even longer, and longer, and longer, until it achieves the desired effect, what it did last March. That way, they can give themselves a pat on the back that it "worked" because the public were finally, finally tamed.

The public will always be blamed, not the premature imposition of perma-lockdown by NPHET.

The fact there was never a Level 4 makes the system just look more ridiculous. Policy was to hit max level and offer no hope. The public dont even know why we are still in Level 5 anymore. They have moved on.

snotboogie

titan18 wrote: »

Need a car to get to Tramore Valley Park though. Unless I'm going to go walk on the link road.

Lough is the closest to me and that's jammed during daylight hours.

To me, and it seems to nearly every other country, hairdressers are safe. It's one of the first to reopen and some don't seem to close them unless absolutely necessary (like schools for us). If everyone else sees them as one of the first to reopen, I don't see what makes it different here. You and the hairdresser are masked like and you can keep all windows and doors open easier in these months ensuring lots of ventilation. I'd accept an outdoor haircut at this stage.

Ya madness they don't have some pedestrian crossing by blackash, I think there is actually a tunnel in place and all but they won't open it!

Ya I'm probably coloured by personal experience, my friend caught covid in December, gave it to her hairdresser who subsequently passed it on to loads of her clients. Caused a huge stir. I don't have any data but logically to me spending 20 minutes in very close proximity to a stranger indoors seems risky!

Cork2021

Cork2021 wrote: »

Question...

So does anyone here think Level 5 is working?

Absolutely not.
The illness peaked in December. Cases would have dropped with or without lockdown as they did.

Also, it definitely it isn’t working if you consider the bigger picture.

When the country is in the gutter, I’ll be happy knowing that I didn’t support this nonsense.

titan18

I think as well it's not so much level 5 (although hospitality being closed helps). It's fear. When we have 5-6k cases a day like in January, you know people who get it so it becomes real. People self police themselves to a far higher extent then. I refused to even get takeaways in January just incase as didn't want to interact with people.

When the cases get lower in your area (like in Cork, we seem to be averaging 10-20 a day in the whole county), the fear is not there as it seems the chances of you catching it are so much lower.

If you go interact with people, head to a house party etc it's far more unlikely that you'll catch covid compared to January so you just stop caring.

It's not something I'm doing myself, but I can see why others are, and somehow no one on NPHET can understand that.

daydorunrun

Deleted User wrote: »

Lv. 5 lockdown worked when people believed in it. Think of last March.

Like an alcoholic drink, the more you take the less effect it has over time. Lv. 5 has been omni-used throughout the last year and this has directly led to a reduction in compliance.

What's shocking - deeply shocking, in fact - is that those in charge, NPHET, could not have predicted this very predictable outcome - perhaps the most predictable outcome throughout the entire pandemic.

But rather than give it up, they double down - and so Lv. 5 must last even longer, and longer, and longer, until it achieves the desired effect, what it did last March. That way, they can give themselves a pat on the back that it "worked" because the public were finally, finally tamed.

The public will always be blamed, not the premature imposition of perma-lockdown by NPHET.

I actually think the powers that be are ok with people slowly starting to ease off on the restrictions themselves rather than them having to make a call and possibly get the blame if it goes tits up.

It's testing the waters until we get over Paddy's day and Easter and into better weather etc. It's the lack of hope they give that annoys me- it's as if we can't be trusted with positivity unless we lose the run of ourselves.

FintanMcluskey

Cork2021 wrote: »

Question...

So does anyone here think Level 5 is working?

It depends on the metric you judge it by in the short term

It reduces the number of cases of community transmission for a while, at an unprecedented economic and social cost, a cost that hasn’t been calculated fully yet.

It doesn’t, however appear to protect the vulnerable citizens any more than less suppressed nations across the EU. If it did, we would have the lowest vulnerable death rate in the EU. I’m referring to over 65’s as vulnerable deaths as it’s the demographic where 95% of deaths occur.

We don’t. We have a higher rate of vulnerable deaths than Sweden. To put it another way, a citizen over 65 is less likely to die of Covid in Sweden than one in Ireland.

So we can rule out a high community suppression level long term lowering death rate.

Also, level 5 used long term becomes a counter productive enigma.

High suppression levels and low numbers from May-December 2020 caused unbelievable pent up demand to socialise last December which in turn created record breaking case numbers and hospitalisation’s.

I believe if we followed Europe’s lead in 2020 we could of had slightly higher daily numbers all Summer to reduce the overall peak in December.

Remember flatten the curve, except flatten it both ways. Flatten the restrictions and associated costs

almostover

titan18 wrote: »

I think as well it's not so much level 5 (although hospitality being closed helps). It's fear. When we have 5-6k cases a day like in January, you know people who get it so it becomes real. People self police themselves to a far higher extent then. I refused to even get takeaways in January just incase as didn't want to interact with people.

When the cases get lower in your area (like in Cork, we seem to be averaging 10-20 a day in the whole county), the fear is not there as it seems the chances of you catching it are so much lower.

If you go interact with people, head to a house party etc it's far more unlikely that you'll catch covid compared to January so you just stop caring.

It's not something I'm doing myself, but I can see why others are, and somehow no one on NPHET can understand that.

Yup, people are pretty good and processing information and risk assessing by themselves. Back in January when cases were at an all time high I was super cautious. But I'm in Cork and now that we have <20 cases per day in a county of half a million people I have become less pedantic with the restrictions. It's human nature, I can't understand how those in NPHET don't acknowledge this.

almostover

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It depends on the metric you judge it by in the short term

It reduces the number of cases of community transmission for a while, at an unprecedented economic and social cost, a cost that hasn’t been calculated fully yet.

It doesn’t, however appear to protect the vulnerable citizens any more than less suppressed nations across the EU. If it did, we would have the lowest vulnerable death rate in the EU. I’m referring to over 65’s as vulnerable deaths as it’s the demographic where 95% of deaths occur.

We don’t. We have a higher rate of vulnerable deaths than Sweden. To put it another way, a citizen over 65 is less likely to die of Covid in Sweden than one in Ireland.

So we can rule out a high community suppression level long term lowering death rate.

Also, level 5 used long term becomes a counter productive enigma.

High suppression levels and low numbers from May-December 2020 caused unbelievable pent up demand to socialise last December which in turn created record breaking case numbers and hospitalisation’s.

I believe if we followed Europe’s lead in 2020 we could of had slightly higher daily numbers all Summer to reduce the overall peak in December.

Remember flatten the curve, except flatten it both ways. Flatten the restrictions and associated costs

The law of unintended consequences has come into play a lot alright with L5 lockdown

touts

Cork2021 wrote: »

Question...

So does anyone here think Level 5 is working?

Nope. Something is working but it's not level 5 because we aren't at level 5. Certainly it's pretty much business as normal in and around Clonmel where I live. Most companies are open. Roads are as busy as ever especially in the morning and evening. Many shops that were initially closed as "non essential" have since quietly reopened. Really there won't be much of a difference when we do go back to level 3.

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It depends on the metric you judge it by in the short term

It reduces the number of cases of community transmission for a while, at an unprecedented economic and social cost, a cost that hasn’t been calculated fully yet.

It doesn’t, however appear to protect the vulnerable citizens any more than less suppressed nations across the EU. If it did, we would have the lowest vulnerable death rate in the EU. I’m referring to over 65’s as vulnerable deaths as it’s the demographic where 95% of deaths occur.

We don’t. We have a higher rate of vulnerable deaths than Sweden. To put it another way, a citizen over 65 is less likely to die of Covid in Sweden than one in Ireland.

So we can rule out a high community suppression level long term lowering death rate.

Also, level 5 used long term becomes a counter productive enigma.

High suppression levels and low numbers from May-December 2020 caused unbelievable pent up demand to socialise last December which in turn created record breaking case numbers and hospitalisation’s.

I believe if we followed Europe’s lead in 2020 we could of had slightly higher daily numbers all Summer to reduce the overall peak in December.

Remember flatten the curve, except flatten it both ways. Flatten the restrictions and associated costs

Certainly depends on the metric. Heard of another suicide today then those with undiagnosed illness plus mental health issues. Information being dished out by so many different media sources doesn’t help to ally people’s anxieties either.

touts

touts wrote: »

Nope. Something is working but it's not level 5 because we aren't at level 5. Certainly it's pretty much business as normal in and around Clonmel where I live. Most companies are open. Roads are as busy as ever especially in the morning and evening. Many shops that were initially closed as "non essential" have since quietly reopened. Really there won't be much of a difference when we do go back to level 3.

The problem is that NPHET refer to the "new virus", B117 - what some posters here have referred to as the "smell the UK left behind in Europe" - as the reason for extra restrictions.

As B117 is more transmissible, it affords NPHET greater power to enforce a Lv. 5 lockdown.

Goldengirl

Cork2021 wrote: »

Just seeing what people think at the moment. We’re going nowhere in terms of cases but on a downward trend with hospital admissions and deaths which is good.
We’ve 3 counties driving the case numbers Dublin, Meath Kildare.
Cork Kilkenny and Leitrim all have incidence rates of less then 50 but have the same restrictions as Dublin who’s incidence rate 227 per 100,000.
Will a spate of regional level 2/3’s help get other counties to push and get to that level instead of indefinite level 5???

Hospital numbers only marginally down last few weeks as well . Still 20 to 25 a day admitted .
ICU came down mainly due to deaths, not discharges unfortunately, but has not gone up despite hospitalisations, this is good .
Would hope that as things go on , even less severe illness despite case numbers due to vaccinations.

But , and this is the point I was making earlier ...
When do we, when older/ vulnerable population largely vaccinated, say ,
" it's ok lads , get the infection if ye want, which will happen with socialising , we are resuming normality here and won't be going out of our way anymore , to protect you from getting a virus you don't think is an issue !" ?

Is this ethical or moral after all our young people have done and given up for the last year to protect that older/ vulnerable group , even if that younger group do not want to be protected from themselves.
They want to go back to normal sooner , we want to go back too, but will that be the right decision longterm with long Covid etc.
As a mother and nurse, it goes against the grain to put my kids , anyone's kids in the way of long term illness / issues if it can be avoided, but it is a decision coming down the line ,
sooner rather than later , don't you think ?

spookwoman

Goldengirl

JRant wrote: »

When we you say "we are protected so who cares anymore" what does that mean?
Have you been vaccinated?
Is it fair that due to your age or job you get a jab probably 4 months before a young person does?
Once you have your vaccine then to hell with those pesky youngsters.
Maybe we should have vaccinated the youngest people first to decrease the spread and let older people continue to isolate.

We have asked so much of our young people and in return they have received nothing but grief. They are by far the most affected by economic shutdowns. It's a credit to so many of them that we haven't seen more breaking of restrictions.

Again that is my point ! Why did you only read half of what I wrote ?

I don't think it's fair and that's why we need to mind people , whether they want us to or not , in some way until everyone is vaccinated.
That to me is the only fair return for what has gone on over the last year !
I know so many young people who have given up their lives over the last year so that this end where older vulnerable people can be protected and HCWs like myself until vaccination.
So why now, even though everyone wants to and are sick to the back teeth of restrictions , should we give up and let it RIP and affect those who have given up so much , and may be most affected healthwise and economically in the future ?
Do you get me?

FintanMcluskey

Goldengirl wrote: »

Hospital numbers only marginally down last few weeks as well . Still 20 to 25 a day admitted .
ICU came down mainly due to deaths, not discharges unfortunately, but has not gone up despite hospitalisations, this is good .
Would hope that as things go on , even less severe illness despite case numbers due to vaccinations.

But , and this is the point I was making earlier ...
When do we, when older/ vulnerable population largely vaccinated, say ,
" it's ok lads , get the infection if ye want, which will happen with socialising , we are resuming normality here and won't be going out of our way anymore , to protect you from getting a virus you don't think is an issue !" ?

Is this ethical or moral after all our young people have done and given up for the last year to protect that older/ vulnerable group , even if that younger group do not want to be protected from themselves.
They want to go back to normal sooner , we want to go back too, but will that be the right decision longterm with long Covid etc.
As a mother and nurse, it goes against the grain to put my kids , anyone's kids in the way of long term illness / issues if it can be avoided, but it is a decision coming down the line ,
sooner rather than later , don't you think ?

As a mother and a nurse, do you believe Covid trumps all associated lockdown related costs for those young people?

Do you not think long term suppression for young adults is likely to cause serious social issues and other health problems?

Is Covid really that dangerous for those under 30