Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

gozunda

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Posters need to read the links they claim supports their argument. Translates to rich Nigerians are as obese as the Uk general population

Yeah like this actual quote ...

"The prevalence of overweight and obesity among this population of adult Nigerians, is as high as it is in the United Kingdom".

From link given

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-14-455

Posters need to stop making gross generalisations.

FintanMcluskey

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah like this actual quote ...



From link given

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-14-455

Posters need to stop making gross generalisations.

Seriously?

About two-thirds of urban, professional, high socio-economic status Nigerian adults are either overweight or obese. The prevalence of overweight and obesity among this population of adult Nigerians, is as high as it is in the United Kingdom.

ypres5

gozunda wrote: »

Yeah like this actual quote ...



From link given

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-14-455

Posters need to stop making gross generalisations.

from what you linked

the prevalence of overweight was 26% and 37% in men and women respectively, while the prevalence of obesity was 3% and 8.1% in men and women respectively [


the number of nigerians who are overweight number in 26% for women and 37% for men while obesity is 3% &8.1% meanwhile in the uk around 25% of the population is obese. overweight and obese are two different things

gozunda

ypres5 wrote: »

why is it whenever someone points out the fact that the elderly and the obese are more at risk of covid it seems to somehow get twisted into that person calling for a genocide of those groups?

Incorrect.

I was replying to this.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Something I mentioned for a few months was a lack of focus by media highlighting the risk of obesity and need to address the issue with great importance.

The message should be hit the gym, not stay at home

https://www.worldobesityday.org/assets/downloads/COVID-19-and-Obesity-The-2021-Atlas.pdf

Old age and obesity is the cause of the severity of this disease. Let nobody say it’s not a 1st world illness.

Would we even need a vaccine of obesity wasn’t so prevalent?

For obesity - the suggested solution is - "hit the gym". OK but does everyone have access to a gym? What about those outside the '1st world"?

For old age?

How do you suggest we cure old age? We can't. And btw that was a rhetorical question pointing this out.

ypres5

gozunda wrote: »

Incorrect.

I was replying to this.




For obesity - the suggested solution is - "hit the gym". OK but does everyone have access to a gym? What about those outside the '1st world"?

For old age?

How do you suggest we 'cure' old age? We can't. And btw that was a rhetorical question pointing this out.

you've been proven wrong on this and yet you keep doubling down on it, why? i don't think fintans suggesting old age can be cured you're just being facetious

FintanMcluskey

gozunda wrote: »

Incorrect.

I was replying to this.




For obesity - the suggested solution is - "hit the gym". OK but does everyone have access to a gym? What about those outside the '1st world"?

For old age?

How do you suggest we 'cure' old age? We can't. And btw that was a rhetorical question pointing this out.

I never suggested old age is something that needs a “cure”

I was suggesting old age is a privilege allowed to us in the 1st world

Ireland’s life expectancy is 82, Nigeria’s is 54

gozunda

ypres5 wrote: »

from what you linked

the prevalence of overweight was 26% and 37% in men and women respectively, while the prevalence of obesity was 3% and 8.1% in men and women respectively [

the number of nigerians who are overweight number in 26% for women and 37% for men while obesity is 3% &8.1% meanwhile in the uk around 25% of the population is obese. overweight and obese are two different things

Again

The prevalence of overweight and obesity among this population of adult Nigerians, is as high as it is in the United Kingdom.

btw that's just two of many studies outlying obesity issues in Nigeria. But nit pick all you like and give credence to the idea that its all obese and old "1st world" people who if they weren't around we wouldn't even need a vaccine:rolleyes:

gozunda

ypres5 wrote: »

you've been proven wrong on this and yet you keep doubling down on it, why? i don't think fintans suggesting old age can be cured you're just being facetious

Nope.

This is what was said

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Something I mentioned for a few months was a lack of focus by media highlighting the risk of obesity and need to address the issue with great importance.

The message should be hit the gym, not stay at home

https://www.worldobesityday.org/assets/downloads/COVID-19-and-Obesity-The-2021-Atlas.pdf

Old age and obesity is the cause of the severity of this disease. Let nobody say it’s not a 1st world illness.

Would we even need a vaccine of obesity wasn’t so prevalent?

And that's bull****e. Counties outside the "1st world have significant issues with obesity.

The point being if obesity can be cured by going to the gym - whats going to cure old age?,

FintanMcluskey

gozunda wrote: »

Again



btw that's just two of many studies outlying obesity issues in Nigeria. But nit pick all you like and give credence to the idea that its all obese and old "1st world" people who if they weren't around we wouldn't even need a vaccine:rolleyes:

Only issue is obesity in Nigeria is only a problem among the wealthy as your link proves.

Kinda backs up my claim

ypres5

gozunda wrote: »

Again



btw that's just two of many studies outlying obesity issues in Nigeria. But nit pick all you like and give credence to the idea that its all obese and old "1st world" people who if they weren't around we wouldn't even need a vaccine:rolleyes:

you said that the percentage of people obese in the uk is the same as nigerias it isn't it's amongst a small portion of a population of 200 million people. you can put as many roll eye emojis as you want youre still wrong and it's not nitpicking to point out you're wrong and if you actually read what you linked rather than cherry picking a small section that doesn't even reflect reality you'd see you're wrong

ypres5

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Only issue is obesity in Nigeria is only a problem among the wealthy as your link proves.

Kinda backs up my claim

no apparently nigeria and the uk have equal obesity rates. ones is 8.9% the others is 27% but i guess both those numbers are the same to some people

gozunda

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I never suggested old age is something that needs a “cure”

I was suggesting old age is a privilege allowed to us in the 1st world

Ireland’s life expectancy is 82, Nigeria’s is 54

I think you're getting your own comments mixed up

You claimed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

...

(A). "Old age and obesity is the cause of the severity of this disease. Let nobody say it’s not a 1st world illness."

(B). "Would we even need a vaccine of obesity wasn’t so prevalent?"

So let's deal with (B) first - why would the existence of obesity in the '1st world" negate the need for a vaccine for the old and the vulnerable (of all ages) ? Unless you're saying only old people are obese? And vulnerable people of all ages simply don't exist?

As to (A) - Obesity is a significant issue in many non 1st world countries. So why only call out "1st" world countries?

None of what you said makes sense

gozunda

ypres5 wrote: »

no apparently nigeria and the uk have equal obesity rates. ones is 8.9% the others is 27% but i guess both those numbers are the same to some people

Nope. Not what was stated - at all. Only you used the word "equal" btw

Let's look at that again. And so you don't have to actually look it up - I specified "this" population as per the quote taken directly from the linked research. Pity you didn't read that in context. Here it is...

About two-thirds of urban, professional, high socio-economic status Nigerian adults are either overweight or obese. The prevalence of overweight and obesity among this population of adult Nigerians, is as high as it is in the United Kingdom.

So for this cohort this particular study detailed that obesity rates were as high as in the UK in this instance.

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-14-455
.

And then this gem...

FintanMcCluskey wrote:

Would we even need a vaccine of obesity wasn’t so prevalent?

So from that we should forget old people and vulnerable people of all ages ...


The arguments just get better and better :rolleyes:

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Have you started to change your outlook?

Just curious as you did have very different opinions until recently

I've always changed my outlook. As have you. It's an ever fluctuating situation. Sometimes the restrictions are too much. I've said so before, last summer. You commented on my change of outlook then too. Can you not appreciate the fact that sometimes, people can support the government's approach and other times people can disagree with the government's approach?

ypres5

gozunda wrote: »

Nope. Not what was stated - at all. Only you used the word "equal" btw

Let's look at that again. And so you don't have to actually look it up - I specified "this" population as per the quote taken directly from the linked research. Pity you didn't read that in context. Here it is...



So for this cohort this particular study detailed that obesity rates were as high as in the UK in this instance.

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-14-455
.

And then this gem...



So from that we should forget old people and vulnerable people of all ages ...


The arguments just get better and better :rolleyes:

you're backtracking now you never specified professionals in your original post you're only saying it now because it was pointed out to you. your original post said in black and white that the uk and nigeria had the same obesity rate with no mention of class

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

I've always changed my outlook. As have you. It's an ever fluctuating situation. Sometimes the restrictions are too much. I've said so before, last summer. You commented on my change of outlook then too. Can you not appreciate the fact that sometimes, people can support the government's approach and other times people can disagree with the government's approach?

Admire your openness

I think some posters now continue to defend the indefensible because they think they can’t “change tact” if you will.

Cases are falling but more critically so are hospital numbers.

The HCW’s are vaccinated, I believe hospital acquired transmission accounted for 40% of admissions in January, so there is a number of measures that could now be eased safely

walus

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

There is another explanation for this, that you dont list : that almost all countries of the world reacted correctly, and that the perception of some that the reaction is totally out of proportion to the threat, stems from their own lack of understanding that the reaction is in fact, the correct one.

That so many countries, made up of so many experts in the field, arrived at broadly similar conclusions and measures, is more likely indicative that they are correct, and that the armchair amateur critics who could not even have defined pandemic or spelled epidemiology correctly a year ago, are the ones who are wrong.

To the contrary. Considering 195 countries and same amount of governments and their advisory groups, one would expect a significant number of different strategies being implemented. The larger the number of independent thinkers, the larger the number of ideas and strategies. Instead what we experience is 195 governments who subscribed to lockdown-until-vaccine franchise, with possibly 2 countries frequently mentioned as success stories, and the rest trying hard to emulate their success.

Make no mistake the current path that the world has gotten on is not thanks to a strategy that has been constructed and derived from a scientific debate between all the governments. This is a strategy that was simply presented to the governments as the best viable option. It was easy to find the followers as in times of uncertainty the safety lies in the herd. Sometimes it is better to be wrong in the group than proven to be right alone.

Those who rejected it were exposing themselves to actions of various actors whose goal was to destabilise their political positions.

Boggles

walus wrote: »

To the contrary. Considering 195 countries and same amount of governments and their advisory groups,

The world is wrong, I am right, here is the easy answers.

Lacks any credible answers.

walus wrote: »

Those who rejected it were exposing themselves to actions of various actors whose goal was to destabilise their political positions.

Who, list them?

walus

Boggles wrote: »

The world is wrong, I am right, here is the easy answers.

Lacks any credible answers.



Who, list them?

While I could make it Walus 3: Boggles 0 quite easily. I will not. Your mindset is more narrow than a snake’s arse. Engaging in a discussion with you is pointless. I’d rather watch paint dry. Period.

Boggles

walus wrote: »

While I could make it Walus 3: Boggles 0 quite easily. I will not. Your mindset is more narrow than a snake’s arse. Engaging in a discussion with you is pointless. I’d rather watch paint dry. Period.

Basically just proved my point TBF.

I asked you the most simple question pertinent to your claims and you respond with belligerence, abuse and some nonsensical 'score card'.

It's the go to response of people who claim the solutions are simple, when asked for the simple solutions, you get deflection and loud noises.

Klonker

https://m.independent.ie/opinion/comment/rules-v-risk-reopening-society-will-be-tougher-for-smaller-nations-like-us-40167233.html

I found this article in today's Irish Independent a good read. It's basically about the exit strategy from lockdown for small open economies like ours and the balancing of reopening and the risks involved in doing so.

gozunda

ypres5 wrote: »

you're backtracking now you never specified professionals in your original post you're only saying it now because it was pointed out to you. your original post said in black and white that the uk and nigeria had the same obesity rate with no mention of class

Wrong. You didn't read what was written. I referenced the relevant section btw.

The prevalence of overweight and obesity among [URL="[url]https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-14-455[/url]"]this[/URL] population of adult Nigerians, is as high as it is in the United Kingdom.

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-14-455

I also note that whilst I supplied two separate studies including one meta study - you went off to that bastion of peer reviewed research - Wikipedia for your information

ypres5 wrote: »

no apparently nigeria and the uk have equal obesity rates. ones is 8.9% the others is 27% but i guess both those numbers are the same to some people

Interestingly that wiki quotes you copied- uses a figure sourced from the "World Fact Book" - which has no reference where that data comes from

You'll see from the study I linked previously that there are a range of estimates for obesity over a number of different studies.

In Nigeria, ...the prevalence of obesity ranged from a low of 8.1% to a high of 22.2%.

https://www.dovepress.com/prevalence-of-overweight-and-obesity-in-adult-nigerians-ndash-a-system-peer-reviewed-article-DMSO

Interestingly the approx percentage for the UK for the equivalent time period was 25%

Leaving aside any further arguing about statistics on obesity - statements like the one below which bizarrely ignore the elderly and vulnerable people of all ages - need to called out for what they are - absolute rubbish.

FintanMcCluskey wrote:

Would we even need a vaccine of obesity wasn’t so prevalent?

FintanMcluskey

gozunda wrote: »

Leaving aside any further arguing about statistics on obesity - statements like the one below which bizarrely ignore the elderly and vulnerable people of all ages - need to called out for what they are - absolute rubbish.

It’s was a question I asked though, not a fact I stated!!!

Has it offended you?

The reason I asked it was because I read the report

https://www.worldobesityday.org/assets/downloads/COVID-19-and-Obesity-The-2021-Atlas.pdf

We show that in those countries where overweight affects only a minority of the adult population, the rates of death from COVID-19 are typically less than one tenth the levels found in countries where overweight affects the majority of adults.
We also show that the drivers of overweight – especially high levels of consumption of processed foods – are associated with mortality from COVID-19.
Lastly, we show that COVID-19 is not a special case: a number of other respiratory viruses lead to more severe consequences in people living with excess bodyweight, giving good reasons to expect the next pandemic to have similar effects.

The obesity issue won’t be dealt with the current messages I’ve seen in Ireland.

Closing public amenities, gyms and fining people trying to access those amenities is not going to help deal with the issues highlighted in the report

shtpEdthePlum

It seems that's because with the advent of fast food, countries where obesity isn't an issue at all are generally impoverished countries where the life expectancy is low.

Did you hear that 30 year old lad at the Cork protest talking about all his family who died this year. His older brother died of cancer, younger brother was dying of something else. I was looking at him thinking he looks like he's on deaths door as well. Some demographics are just going to die young because of their socioeconomic status, there's really absolutely nothing the people listening could have done to help him except gave him advice about how to get a job to support himself and stop doing drugs, smoking etc. It was seriously depressing. Poor lad.

Sephiroth_dude

Moonage keep the conspiracy theory stuff out this thread please, not the place for it.

gozunda

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It’s was a question I asked though, not a fact I stated!!!

Has it offended you?

The reason I asked it was because I read the report

https://www.worldobesityday.org/assets/downloads/COVID-19-and-Obesity-The-2021-Atlas.pdf

The obesity issue won’t be dealt with the current messages I’ve seen in Ireland.

Closing public amenities, gyms and fining people trying to access those amenities is not going to help deal with the issues highlighted in the report

You're correct- it is a 'question' which is as ridiculous as it sounds

FintanMcCluskey wrote:

Would we even need a vaccine of obesity wasn’t so prevalent?

And I see those pointing out that the "question" is indeed rubbish - are questioned for doing so by reason of being "offended" ...

Whats certain - It's certainly offensive to the elderly and the vulnerable of all ages for anyone to suggest there would be no need for a vaccine if only obesity wasn't so prevalent

It remains people here are still able to exercise - whether that's walking, running or working out in your own home.

So the fact gyms etc are closed under the present restrictions is moot with regard to regular weight management, general fitness and availability of online health anf fitness advice

But more importantly to the fact that a covid vaccine is vitally necessary to achieve herd immunity, safeguard heatlcare workers, and to care for all those regardless of weight, who need it.

Boggles

gozunda wrote: »

It remains people here are still able to exercise - whether that's walking, running or working out in your own home.

Just to color this with some actual tangible reality.

I have never seen so many people out exercising then I have in past 12 months.

I imagine my area is not an outlier.

Put again that's a massive positive, it doesn't belong here.

If we could just get rid of all the people who will have an adverse effect to this disease we'd be grand.

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

If we could just get rid of all the people who will have an adverse effect to this disease we'd be grand.

If people can be encouraged to make better lifestyle and dietary choices they will reduce the burden on healthcare service during normal times, and also during a crisis like now.

Boggles

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

If people can be encouraged to make better lifestyle and dietary choices they will reduce the burden on healthcare service during normal times, and also during a crisis like now.

Well, like I said I have never seen so many people out exercising.

FintanMcluskey

Boggles wrote: »

Well, like I said I have never seen so many people out exercising.

You have also seen construction fully reopened across Ireland while out walking