Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

JRant

normanoffside wrote: »

Imagine whining over civil liberties. Disgraceful

There was some talking suit from FFG on one a TV show recently making the same kind of statement about people "hiding behind constitutional rights" to paraphrase him.

normanoffside

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Handing out fines at beaches and mountain walkways by the Gardai was championed by some as a great success at combating the effects of Covid.

The gards stopping them and handing out fines and cautions actually exponentially increases the chances of spreading it.

Natterjack from Kerry

ypres5 wrote: »

and when are we going to reach the 50 mark especially now that schools are reopening? we should be caring more about vaccine numbers than the x number of cases good, y number of cases bad school of thought

In the Autumn sometime, as long as we stay pretty shutdown through the summer.

Yes, vaccine numbers are critical. With a rising risk now until we get over 80%, but again, that should be sometime in the Autumn. I would be hopefull Christmas will be reasonably good, but probably safest to leave all pubs restaurants closed this December and let them open in Jan. It would still give a fully 'visit-friendly' family and social Christmas.

FintanMcluskey

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

In the Autumn sometime, as long as we stay pretty shutdown through the summer.

Yes, vaccine numbers are critical. With a rising risk now until we get over 80%, but again, that should be sometime in the Autumn. I would be hopefull Christmas will be reasonably good, but probably safest to leave all pubs restaurants closed this December and let them open in Jan. It would still give a fully 'visit-friendly' family and social Christmas.

Is this a parody account?

Natterjack from Kerry

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

.

Addressing your highlighted point : we learnt our lesson last December. Unless we can ensure 100% vaccination by then end of November - unlikely - then the risk is too high. We cannot have 10% or 20% or whatever of the population circulating unprotected from those who while vaccinated might have Covid, and, from incoming from abroad.

FintanMcluskey

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Addressing your highlighted point : we learnt our lesson last December. Unless we can ensure 100% vaccination by then end of November - unlikely - then the risk is too high. We cannot have 10% or 20% or whatever of the population circulating unprotected from those who while vaccinated might have Covid, and, from incoming from abroad.

Is this not about protecting the vulnerable?

Most people not old or overweight won’t have severe symptoms.

Vaccinating the HCW’s and vulnerable should be enough to “let it rip” as they say, or at least reopen hospitality as it was last Summer

If not, we need to have an adult discussion

ypres5

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Is this not about protecting the vulnerable?

Most people not old or overweight won’t have severe symptoms.

Vaccinating the HCW’s and vulnerable should be enough to “let it rip” as they say, or at least reopen hospitality as it was last Summer

If not, we need to have an adult discussion

personally i think we should stay in lockdown until we get a 100% guarantee that no one will ever get sick or no one will die ever again

User1998

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Yes, vaccine numbers are critical. With a rising risk now until we get over 80%, but again, that should be sometime in the Autumn. I would be hopefull Christmas will be reasonably good, but probably safest to leave all pubs restaurants closed this December and let them open in Jan. It would still give a fully 'visit-friendly' family and social Christmas.

Its absolutely crazy to think that there’s actually people out there with this mindset

thebronze14

castletownman wrote: »

Just back from McDonalds drive-thru (outside of my 5KM but hey ho I am clearly a badass) and the queue was unreal. Two lines of traffic plus car-park stewards ushering them in. It's amazing what people are resorting to for their Saturday evening entertainment during lockdown.

Found it odd that they had signs plastered around the general industrial estate complex where McDonalds is located with other businesses that said "Picnics not allowed". It's great that they have their priorities straight.

I have nothing against going more than 5k to get food but choosing to go to Mc Donalds to eat their ''food'' means you have clearly lost your sense of taste and need to get a covid test immediately

Neddyusa

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Is this a parody account?

I was hoping it was but unfortunately I don't think so...

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

After the 650,000 over-65s have been vaccinated, the next excuse against opening up will be, "But the health service will become overwhelmed if too many under-65s catch the virus".

When 18-65s are vaccinated, the next excuse will be, "...but there are three new variants out there, which can infect enough vaccinated people to cause many hospitalizations".

Then a new vaccine will be developed to account for these variants before October, and Holohan will be back with, "We cannot open up safely until everyone has had two doses of this new vaccine. Lv.5 restrictions until at least January 2022".

It's a neverending disaster, for Ireland anyway.

The above probably won't happen, but you can certainly imagine some version of it happening.

Well considering approx 50% of 65 year olds and under have made up hospital covid related hospital admissions.

Just saying ...

But it remains as vaccinations rates rise and the number of new cases is reduced and stay low then there is absolutely no reason whatsoever as why restrictions will not be removed..

Anything else is just **** stirring tbh.

ypres5

thebronze14 wrote: »

I have nothing against going more than 5k to get food but choosing to go to Mc Donalds to eat their ''food'' means you have clearly lost your sense of taste and need to get a covid test immediately

to be fair it's one of the few novelties we've been left with

ypres5

gozunda wrote: »

Well considering approx 50% of 65 year olds and under have made up hospital covid related hodspital admissions.

Just saying ...

But it remains as vaccinations rates rise and the number of new cases is reduced and stay low then there is absolutely no reason whatsoever as why restrictions will not be removed..

Anything else is just **** stirring tbh.

going by what the government have said 80% over 18s should have their first shot by june so at that point it's time to be at level 1 with an eye on level 0 by mid July

gozunda

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Something I mentioned for a few months was a lack of focus by media highlighting the risk of obesity and need to address the issue with great importance.

The message should be hit the gym, not stay at home

https://www.worldobesityday.org/assets/downloads/COVID-19-and-Obesity-The-2021-Atlas.pdf

Old age and obesity is the cause of the severity of this disease. Let nobody say it’s not a 1st world illness.

Would we even need a vaccine of obesity wasn’t so prevalent?

So you're saying "fat" people can hit the gym. And we wouldn't need a vaccine "if obesity wasn't so prevalent"?

So what of old people - are they all 'fat' or something?

As for being a "1st world illness" because of 'obesity and old age' according to yourself- let's look at that.

OK let's look at not a "1st" world country - How about Nigeria - where the prevalence of overweight and obesity among this* population of adult Nigerians has been estimated as high as it is in the United Kingdom.

How's that suit your fact picking? Maybe people from Nigeria should just "hit the gym" - as there is evidently absolutely no need for any of this vaccine malarkey eh?

*https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-14-455

ypres5

gozunda wrote: »

So you're saying "fat" people can hit the gym. And we wouldn't need a vaccine "if obesity wasn't so prevalent"?

So what of old people - are they all 'fat' or something?

As for the "1st world illness" because of 'obesity and old age' according to yourself- let's look at that.

OK let's look at not a 1st world country - How about Nigeria - Where the prevalence of overweight and obesity among this population of adult Nigerians has been estimated as high as it is in the United Kingdom.

How's that suit your fact picking? Maybe people from Nigeria should just "hit the gym" - as there is evidently absolutely no need for any of this vaccine malarkey eh?

to be fair nigeria have had less than 2k covid deaths out of 140k cases out of a population of 200 million and even then that's just the cases they've caught

gozunda

ypres5 wrote: »

to be fair nigeria have had less than 2k covid deaths out of 140k cases out of a population of 200 million and even then that's just the cases they've caught

So what you're saying is that obesity has nothing to do with catching covid? And (generally) you're agreeing with me? Fair enough ...

kittensmittens

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ah sure it's just the flu Fintan, isn't it?

Meh....I've had it twice(covid) and having had the flu(PROPER flu)only once before, I can safely say that what I had is nothing like the flu.
Both times(9 months apart) I had sniffles, off my food a bit, some aches and pains(very mild)and the second time a loss of taste and smell for about 2 weeks.
Pretty much the same as any cold/bug that you pick up. Nobody else in the household got it including the person that shares the bed with me. So from what I can see the vast majority of people get what I had and a very very miniscule proportion of the population get it worse. That's how sickness and illness works.

Now the flu? That was a horse of a different colour. Anyone whos ever had it didnt need a swab test to tell them that they had

ypres5

gozunda wrote: »

So what you're saying is that obesity has nothing to do with catching covid? And you're agreeing with me? Fair enough ...

no im saying that nigeria doesn't seem to have suffered any great catastrophe from covid likely due to its younger population which somewhat ties into fintans point. what fintans saying is true being overweight does make you more susceptible to illness and this isn't coming from someone who's a musclebound adonis

FintanMcluskey

gozunda wrote: »

So you're saying "fat" people can hit the gym. And we wouldn't need a vaccine "if obesity wasn't so prevalent"?

So what of old people - are they all 'fat' or something?

As for the "1st world illness" because of 'obesity and old age' according to yourself- let's look at that.

OK let's look at not a 1st world country - How about Nigeria - Where the prevalence of overweight and obesity among this population of adult Nigerians has been estimated as high as it is in the United Kingdom.

How's that suit your fact picking? Maybe people from Nigeria should just "hit the gym" - as there is evidently absolutely no need for any of this vaccine malarkey eh?

I never meant my comment to be inflammatory.

I was making the point that the message being portrayed of stay home save lives is counter productive.

Unfortunately, people old and beyond life expectancy are exactly that, old and beyond life expectancy.

Will you link to the fact people from Nigeria have similar obesity levels as those from the UK?

Not saying it’s incorrect, I haven’t seen it

Sobit1964

gozunda wrote: »

So you're saying "fat" people can hit the gym. And we wouldn't need a vaccine "if obesity wasn't so prevalent"?

So what of old people - are they all 'fat' or something?

As for being a "1st world illness" because of 'obesity and old age' according to yourself- let's look at that.

OK let's look at not a "1st" world country - How about Nigeria - where the prevalence of overweight and obesity among this population of adult Nigerians has been estimated as high as it is in the United Kingdom.

How's that suit your fact picking? Maybe people from Nigeria should just "hit the gym" - as there is evidently absolutely no need for any of this vaccine malarkey eh?

Source that nigerians are as fat as brits?

kittensmittens

kittensmittens wrote: »

Now the flu? That was a horse of a different colour. Anyone whos ever had it didnt need a swab test to tell them that they had

Which is wholly inaccurate. People can, and do, get very mild cases of flu which, when passed on, can case a massive reaction in others.



It's why we have flu seasons, with people ignoring those mild cases and going to work and infecting the office.

ypres5

Sobit1964 wrote: »

Source that nigerians are as fat as brits?

According to wikipedia britain has the 36th highest obesity rate in the world at 27.8% of the population classed as such while nigeria is 145th at 8.9%

gozunda

ypres5 wrote: »

no im saying that nigeria doesn't seem to have suffered any great catastrophe from covid likely due to its younger population which somewhat ties into fintans point. what fintans saying is true being overweight does make you more susceptible to illness and this isn't coming from someone who's a musclebound adonis

So what you're saying is that Fintan claimed Covid was a first world problem linked to obesity but a non 1st world country such as Nigeria which has similar obesity rates to the UK (for parts of its population) doesn't make them susceptible or is it somehow that only old and fat '1st' World people are susceptible?

ypres5

gozunda wrote: »

So what you're saying is that Fintan claimed Covid was a first world problem linked to obesity but a non 1st world country such as Nigeria which has similar obesity rates to the UK doesn't make them susceptible or is it somehow that only old and fat '1st' World people are susceptible?

see above nigeria doesn't have the same obesity rate as the uk. you were sold a pup on that one

gozunda

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I never meant my comment to be inflammatory.

I was making the point that the message being portrayed of stay home save lives is counter productive.

Unfortunately, people old and beyond life expectancy are exactly that, old and beyond life expectancy.

Will you link to the fact people from Nigeria have similar obesity levels as those from the UK?

Not saying it’s incorrect, I haven’t seen it

Well I dunno about that. Blaming old / fat people in the '1st world" as the main issue with regards to Covid is pretty inflammatory

How exactly is the message 'stay at home" counter productive"? You didn't explain how that works in the comment tbf

What do you suggest? A Logan's Run type dystopia where we get rid of anyone lets say over 65 so the rest of us can go party?

Plenty of studies on obesity rates in Africa. I randomly chose Nigeria as an example btw

https://www.dovepress.com/prevalence-of-overweight-and-obesity-in-adult-nigerians-ndash-a-system-peer-reviewed-article-DMSO

Results: Four studies met the inclusion criteria out of the 75 studies reviewed. In Nigeria, the prevalence of overweight individuals ranged from 20.3%–35.1%, while the prevalence of obesity ranged from 8.1%–22.2*%.

Note: Note it is estimated that up to 25 % of adults in the UK were classified as obese in the comparable period

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-14-455

The prevalence of overweight and obesity among this population of adult Nigerians, is as high as it is in the United Kingdom.

ceadaoin.

gozunda wrote: »

So what you're saying is that obesity has nothing to do with catching covid? And you're agreeing with me? Fair enough ...

Obesity has nothing to do with catching covid obviously. It is a known risk for severe disease and, as a result, death though, coming in second to advanced age as the biggest risk factor. Why is this being disputed? It's an established fact at this stage.

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html#:~:text=%E2%80%A2%20Having%20obesity%20increases%20the,to%20impaired%20immune%20function.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/health/obesity-covid-death-rate-intl/index.html

https://www.ft.com/content/7db2b641-c831-4876-ba0c-0f815a42c8f0

ypres5

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Obesity has nothing to do with catching covid obviously. It is a known risk for severe disease and death though, coming in second to age. Why is this being disputed? It's an established fact at this stage.

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html#:~:text=%E2%80%A2%20Having%20obesity%20increases%20the,to%20impaired%20immune%20function.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/health/obesity-covid-death-rate-intl/index.html

https://www.ft.com/content/7db2b641-c831-4876-ba0c-0f815a42c8f0

in case we hurt people's feelings it seems

ypres5

gozunda wrote: »

Well I dunno about that. Blaming old / fat people in the '1st world" as the main issue with regards to Covid is pretty inflammatory

How exactly is the message 'stay at home" counter productive"? You didn't explain how that works in the comment tbf

What do you suggest? A Logan's Run type dystopia where we get rid of anyone lets say over 65 so the rest of us can go party?

Plenty of studies on obesity rates in Africa. I randomly chose Nigeria as an example btw

https://www.dovepress.com/prevalence-of-overweight-and-obesity-in-adult-nigerians-ndash-a-system-peer-reviewed-article-DMSO

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-14-455

why is it whenever someone points out the fact that the elderly and the obese are more at risk of covid it seems to somehow get twisted into that person calling for a genocide of those groups?

gozunda

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Obesity has nothing to do with catching covid obviously. It is a known risk for severe disease and death though, coming in second to age. Why is this being disputed? It's an established fact at this stage.

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html#:~:text=%E2%80%A2%20Having%20obesity%20increases%20the,to%20impaired%20immune%20function.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/04/health/obesity-covid-death-rate-intl/index.html

https://www.ft.com/content/7db2b641-c831-4876-ba0c-0f815a42c8f0

Nope. I'm not arguing that btw. The poster was stating covid was linked to obesity and old age and therefore was a first world problem ...

FintanMcluskey

gozunda wrote: »

Well I dunno about that. Blaming old / fat people in the '1st world" as the main issue with regards to Covid is pretty inflammatory

How exactly is the message 'stay at home" counter productive"? You didn't explain how that works in the comment tbf

What do you suggest? A Logan's Run type dystopia where we get rid of anyone lets say over 65 so the rest of us can go party?

Plenty of studies on obesity rates in Africa. I randomly chose Nigeria as an example btw

https://www.dovepress.com/prevalence-of-overweight-and-obesity-in-adult-nigerians-ndash-a-system-peer-reviewed-article-DMSO

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-14-455

Posters need to read the links they claim supports their argument

About two-thirds of urban, professional, high socio-economic status Nigerian adults are either overweight or obese. The prevalence of overweight and obesity among this population of adult Nigerians, is as high as it is in the United Kingdom.

Translates to rich Nigerians are as obese as the Uk general population