Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IX *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Boggles

JMNolan wrote: »

So we thought it first and the uk did it first? ahahaha, we're even worse so

Yeah that's exactly what happened.

As you were lad.

:rolleyes:

Boggles

facehugger99 wrote: »

There is a huge potion of the electorate that are gullible, cowardly, incapable of independent thought and easily manipulated.

Not you though, you have found the simple solutions and will not be manipulated.

Good for you.

Sobit1964

Boggles wrote: »

Because we share a small island with part of it, it needed to be in tandem.

This isn't a secret or hard to understand.

Yes its neither secret nor hard to understand - but it does rather demolish your earlier point.

Captain_Crash

facehugger99 wrote: »

There is a huge potion of the electorate that are gullible, cowardly, incapable of independent thought and easily manipulated. That is a far more worrying prospective than a virus that is harmless to the vast majority.

Myself and my father in law and a chat about this the other day. I used to think we were a well educated and open thinking populous but what I’ve seen in the past year is that a large number of people are happy to let others do their thinking for them and neglect their own social responsibility to ask questions.

Like was said a few posts back.... thankfully we have an incompetent government in place now, but what of the sinister elements in society who have seen how easily the public have been manipulated? That’s where trouble begins!

_Kaiser_

Graham wrote: »

Enforcing the law is now a 'pound of flesh' vindictive behaviour?

What a bizarre outlook.

What's bizzare is your willingness to accept a situation where different sections of society are singled out and attacked by politicians and the general media, or those trying to grandstand for the gallery to show how compliant and virtuous they themselves are.

It's deeply worrying how easily people like yourself have taken to it but not entirely surprising. This country has made a national sport out of begrudgery and envying the neighbours - either what they have or are getting, or what they are 'getting away with'. It happened in the Tiger years with new BMWs on every driveway, or decking, foreign holidays and property, and it happened in the Recession/Recovery years best summed up by Leo's ill-judged 'welfare cheats cheat us all' campaign.

Add to that an apparently instinctive 'need' in many people to be validated and approved of (eg: how we make big deals of being the first to do things in Europe or even the old 'everyone loves the Irish' thing), and we have a situation where CV-19 and the overuse of social media (and all the problems it comes with) has amplified these worst traits of Irish society to worryingly disturbing levels.

I've said it before, but this effect on our social cohesion is proving to be far more damaging to the country than any minimal risk from the virus.

We have a situation where, 12 months in, the facts have proven that it's just not the deadly rampaging killer that it was first feared to be - and yet we still have people here cheerleading the overreacting media and politicians, the completely disproportionate level of restrictions, and trying to attack and discredit anyone who is not obsessing about case numbers and death notices for doing nothing more than trying to live their lives.

If you or others like you want to hide away or limit your interactions with others or worry about the daily RTE reports until you get your vaccine then by all means do - but stop trying to project your fears onto others who (for numerous reasons) don't share your level of concern or risk.

It's these issues that will take a lot longer to recover from in this country, not a virus that many don't even know they have unless they're told by a test result.

Silentcorner

paw patrol wrote: »

I found Harris and McEntee - 2 ministers of a democratically elected government let's not forget - very sinister regarding the students.

Demanding a pound of flesh and demonising the participants for the mere audacity not to cower in fear from the 99.5% survival virus.
This is vindictive behaviour from two fcuking ministers.

Those two Ministers in particular have succumb to twitter addiction, constantly posting emotive nonsense, neither of them are fit for high office you can't govern when you can't control your emotions like those two, they have been at it now for a while....McEntee threw the Gaurds under the bus a few months ago in her first public test as Justice Minister, normally a fairly benign portfolio.

They'll be outraged at something else next week, probably some bunch of teenagers not respecting International Women's Day or some nonsense!

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's these issues that will take a lot longer to recover from in this country, not a virus that many don't even know they have unless they're told by a test result.

One in four people has an asymptomatic infection.

Much higher than most people realize!

Boggles

Captain_Crash wrote: »

thankfully we have an incompetent government in place now, but what of the sinister elements in society who have seen how easily the public have been manipulated? That’s where trouble begins!

You mean like the few 100 racists and weirdos who broke the law, attacked people with bottles and fireworks and stood around singing Aslan's Crazy World whilst simultaneously shouting out "Shove your F'ing Vaccines up your Arsé"?

I'm going to head out and a limb here and suggest, no.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

They'll be outraged at something else next week, probably some bunch of teenagers not respecting International Women's Day or some nonsense!

But never outraged at Black Lives Matter protests in the midst of a pandemic.

It's funny - they will respond to BLM protests with, "We need to understand the legitimate reasons for these protests", but in the case of the Perma-Lockdown Sceptics, that principle is thrown under the proverbial bus.

Sobit1964

Boggles wrote: »

You mean like the few 100 racists and weirdos who broke the law, attacked people with bottles and fireworks and stood around singing Aslan's Crazy World whilst simultaneously shouting out "Shove your F'ing Vaccines up your Arsé"?

I'm going to head out and a limb here and suggest, no.

You forgot to include the 'far-left' whom official sources also say were present - an innocent omission i'm sure.

Hector Savage

Boggles wrote: »

You mean like the few 100 racists and weirdos who broke the law, attacked people with bottles and fireworks and stood around singing Aslan's Crazy World whilst simultaneously shouting out "Shove your F'ing Vaccines up your Arsé"?

I'm going to head out and a limb here and suggest, no.

You see this is the problem, the media and people like you smearing everyone at that protest as these type of people.

Boggles

Hector Savage wrote: »

You see this is the problem, the media and people like you smearing everyone at that protest as these type of people.

Smearing?

I have seen the videos, long anti vax speeches, violence, and singing anti vaccine songs, lizard people, grounding up babies, 5g, etc, etc.

It was the Commissioner who labelled them all a 'concerted mob'.

Nothing I have seen or heard has contradicted him.

If you have evidence to the contrary by all means fire it up and I'll gladly take a look.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Smearing?

I have seen the videos, long anti vax speeches, violence, and singing anti vaccine songs, lizard people, grounding up babies, 5g, etc, etc.

It was the Commissioner who labelled them all a 'concerted mob'.

Nothing I have seen or heard has contradicted him.

If you have evidence to the contrary by all means fire it up and I'll gladly take a look.

Even if that were true, it still wouldn't diminish the legitimate reasons that many people have (and many people throughout the country are sympathetic to) against current restrictions.

But it's not true.

Evidently, there were normal people there, as well as abnormal people, as well as many other kinds of people.

Don't engage in ad hominem attacks and instead look to the reasons that many people feel to protest.

corcaigh07

uli84 wrote: »

“ Though no final decision has been made by Uefa, there is growing speculation that Dublin will ultimately lose their Euro 2020/2021 games given the level of ongoing Covid-19 restrictions here. The nationwide Level Five Covid response has been extended to 5 April, with few substantial relaxations expected until at least May.”

It is only at Level One of the government’s plan that the Aviva Stadium could host a capacity consistent with Uefa’s expectations for the tournament.

Losers hahahah, whole Europe is laughing

Level 1 not even good enough without some kind of special exception approval.

We need to be Level 0 for June, the writing is on the wall. The tournament should move to England, even it has to be in front of small crowds.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

Even if that were true, it still wouldn't diminish the legitimate reasons that many people have (and many people throughout the country are sympathetic to) against current restrictions.

But it's not true.

Evidently, there were normal people there, as well as abnormal people, as well as many other kinds of people.

Don't engage in ad hominem attacks and instead look to the reasons that many people feel to protest.

Why would the Commissioner lie?

If you have evidence that refutes his summation by all means link it up.

Like I said I will gladly take a look.

paw patrol

Boggles wrote: »

Smearing?

I have seen the videos, long anti vax speeches, violence, and singing anti vaccine songs, lizard people, grounding up babies, 5g, etc, etc.

.

not one of your list above mentions racism yet you (in the earlier post) labelled them "racists and weirdos". CNN would be proud for such a manoeuver.

There were marchers on sat with far-out-there beliefs - this I won't deny I met some. But they being portrayed as nefarious and evil (by you , politicians and media) yet i fail to see what is wrong with being weird and probably wrong. Like ffs who isn't wrong? And so what if they are wrong ?

If karen thinks her magic crystals will defeat 5G , what of it?
But somehow she is now being equated to some boozed up aryan hardman from a 1920s Munich beer hall...:rolleyes:

Her actual crime is a mere rejection of the collective thinking. That is it.
You can dress it up whatever way you like but the fact is - you demonsie her for not buying the message. Thought crime.
Well done you

Sobit1964

Boggles wrote: »

Why would the Commissioner lie?

If you have evidence that refutes his summation by all means link it up.

Like I said I will gladly take a look.

Has any one claimed he lied? If you have evidence of this by all means link it up.

Hector Savage

Boggles wrote: »

Smearing?

I have seen the videos, long anti vax speeches, violence, and singing anti vaccine songs, lizard people, grounding up babies, 5g, etc, etc.

It was the Commissioner who labelled them all a 'concerted mob'.

Nothing I have seen or heard has contradicted him.

If you have evidence to the contrary by all means fire it up and I'll gladly take a look.

I saw videos of working people walking to show their dissatisfaction of the handling of this crisis, people who can't work, who aren't allowed to work.

People who can't go for safe sports exercise if it's 5000m away from their home.
No violence no chanting anti vax nonsense, you seem to be looking for what you want to see, it's no surprise since you have mega media and govt corp behind pushing that narrative.

I live in Spain, I am lucky they have seen some sense here, I can play tennis, my kids go to school, we can go to a restaurant for lunch - we sit outside , but still it's important for our sanity.

What I see going on back in Ireland, it's a disgrace, I have an uncle that loves tennis that needs tennis, he is not allowed play, he has to sit at home bored all day, the 5k walk is getting boring at this stage.

There is no reason singles tennis can't go ahead in Ireland - as well as Golf and other distanced sports ... it's a shame how they are handling this.

paw patrol

Boggles wrote: »

Why would the Commissioner lie?
.

why indeed, it's almost like a commissioner has never lied in the past?
or been wrong if you want to take a less conspiratorial view.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I find it terrifying. The obedience. The compliance. The unthinking following of orders. The transformation of the media into a mouthpiece. The ascendance of administrators. The suspension of ancient liberties and family customs. The forced internment of healthy citizens and visitors. A TD suggesting that armed soldiers should patrol these internment centers, and not being pilloried for it. All for the common good and national interest, of course. All for the collective.The traits are within us to slip into a real totalitarian nightmare, given the right circumstances. And malevolent individuals are no doubt noting what the people are willing to put up with, and what it takes to get them there. And all it took was a virus with a mortality rate of what, 1%? It makes my blood run cold and the hairs stand up on the back of my neck.

Jayzus....

Its the hyperbole I find hillarious. Its like some just love wallowing in an absolute orgasm of misery porn and daft analogies.

A bit of cop on on never goes amiss...

Hector Savage

paw patrol wrote: »

not one of your list above mentions racism yet you (in the earlier post) labelled them "racists and weirdos". CNN would be proud for such a manoeuver.

There were marchers on sat with far-out-there beliefs - this I won't deny I met some. But they being portrayed as nefarious and evil (by you , politicians and media) yet i fail to see what is wrong with being weird and probably wrong. Like ffs who isn't wrong? And so what if they are wrong ?

If karen thinks her magic crystals will defeat 5G , what of it?
But somehow she is now being equated to some boozed up aryan hardman from a 1920s Munich beer hall...:rolleyes:

Her actual crime is a mere rejection of the collective thinking. That is it.
You can dress it up whatever way you like but the fact is - you demonsie her for not buying the message. Thought crime.
Well done you

Spot on 100%

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

Why would the Commissioner lie?

If you have evidence that refutes his summation by all means link it up.

Like I said I will gladly take a look.

That isn't even close to a response to the points I made.

Go back and read my post.

Boggles

paw patrol wrote: »

not one of your list above mentions racism yet you (in the earlier post) labelled them "racists and weirdos". CNN would be proud for such a manoeuver.

There were marchers on sat with far-out-there beliefs - this I won't deny I met some. But they being portrayed as nefarious and evil (by you , politicians and media) yet i fail to see what is wrong with being weird and probably wrong. Like ffs who isn't wrong? And so what if they are wrong ?

If karen thinks her magic crystals will defeat 5G , what of it?
But somehow she is now being equated to some boozed up aryan hardman from a 1920s Munich beer hall...:rolleyes:

Her actual crime is a mere rejection of the collective thinking. That is it.
You can dress it up whatever way you like but the fact is - you demonsie her for not buying the message. Thought crime.
Well done you

Hector Savage wrote: »

I saw videos of working people walking to show their dissatisfaction of the handling of this crisis, people who can't work, who aren't allowed to work.

People who can't go for safe sports exercise if it's 5000m away from their home.
No violence no chanting anti vax nonsense, you seem to be looking for what you want to see, it's no surprise since you have mega media and govt corp behind pushing that narrative.

I live in Spain, I am lucky they have seen some sense here, I can play tennis, my kids go to school, we can go to a restaurant for lunch - we sit outside , but still it's important for our sanity.

What I see going on back in Ireland, it's a disgrace, I have an uncle that loves tennis that needs tennis, he is not allowed play, he has to sit at home bored all day, the 5k walk is getting boring at this stage.

There is no reason singles tennis can't go ahead in Ireland - as well as Golf and other distanced sports ... it's a shame how they are handling this.

So zero tangible evidence to disprove the Commissioners summation?

I have asked several times and none is forthcoming.

So Fair enough. I'll have to stick with the numerous evidence I have seen and the Commissioners word on it.

paw patrol

Boggles wrote: »

So zero tangible evidence to disprove the Commissioners summation?

I have asked several times and none is forthcoming.

So Fair enough.

no idea why you quoted my post - that isn't an answer to my point.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

That isn't even close to a response to the points I made.

Go back and read my post.

I based my opinion on the videos I saw, backed up by the Commissioners summation of events, I mean he had 120+ officers on the ground dealing with the "mob".

Your claim is it wasn't true, therefore someone is telling lies. i.e. the Commissioner.

I want you to offer evidence that contradicts what I saw which is backed up by the Commissioner.

Boggles

Boggles wrote: »

I based my opinion on the videos I saw, backed up by the Commissioners summation of events, I mean he had 120+ officers on the ground dealing with the "mob".

Your claim is it wasn't true, therefore someone is telling lies. i.e. the Commissioner.

I want you to offer evidence that contradicts what I saw which is backed up by the Commissioner.

Nobody disputes there was a violent element to the protest.

Nobody disputes that there were people with creepy or looney views.

Nobody disputes that it should have been conducted better.

But you should not dispute the fact that there were many people there - some good, some not so good.

True, the Commissioner can use the word mob - after all, a vocal and violent group of people within the protest attacked Gardai. That's mob-like behavior.

But that doesn't mean you can tar the entire protest with one brush - and this is particularly true if terms of abuse, such as "racist", are casually thrown around.

And further to my previous point, even if the entire group - 100 percent - were criminal yobs (which I don't for a second concede), it still wouldn't de-legitimize the very reasonable and just reasons for people to protest Tony Holohan's lockdown.

francogarbanzo

Boggles wrote: »

Why would the Commissioner lie?

Why would the individual in charge of the force tasked with quelling a protest in which Gardai were attacked have any incentive to trivialise and discredit the group involved in that protest? What motivation could that person possibly have to try and reduce future instances or at least attendance of that same protest?

It doesn't matter anyway. You're still saying there were between 100 and 400 people there. You're off by an order of magnitude and you've been given the evidence which proves it, and you know it.

2 + 2 does not equal 5, no matter how much someone in a position of authority declares it so. If the commissioner says there were a few hundred people there, he's either mistaken or deliberately lying.

Klonker

When some people say our restrictions are not far out of sync with the rest of Europe, I think they're being disingenuous. First of all I wouldn't agree as we are the only country in the EU with non essential construction closed. Secondly comparing a 5km limit to a nighttime curfew is not an equal comparison, the 5km limit is way more restrictive.

But apart from that my main issue and I think a lot of others is the restrictions as we move into summer. Obviously we don't know exactly what restrictions we'll have here or abroad in future but we can get a good idea from moves being made now and from comments from government officials.

Just to give context, Leo mentioned yesterday about outdoor dining for the summer. Also mentioned in the past is non essential retail won't open until May at earliest. We know for a fact nothing outside of schools will open before April, not even construction.

Now let's compare that to a few EU countries. In France non essential shops are currently opened inside of curfew hours. We probably won't have ours open until mid May.

In Germany, hairdressers are opened. We'll be lucky to be able to get a haircut in early June. They are also reviewing restrictions again on 7th March. Some small non essential retail shops are expected to be allowed open then. We are leaving 6 weeks between our reviews from late February until early April for reasons that was never explained and even worse has never been asked.

In Italy, restaurants are open in some regions (yellow zones) with lower cases until 6pm. Also in yellow zones, cinemas, theatres and concert halls can reopen from 27th March (with restrictions obviously). Honestly, when do you expect those to open here, August maybe?

In Netherlands, close contact professions such as hairdressers (excluding sex workers) are open since yesterday. Government advise not to travel abroad until at least 31st March. We've already been told not to expect to travel this year!

In Denmark, small shops opened and sports allowed up to 25 people since 1st March.

Bulgaria has all shops, hairdressers and restaurants open from 1st March and nightclubs to open from April.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/explainers-53640249

What I'm just trying to highlight is we are already out of sync with Europe and it looks like it'll grow even more through March, April and May. My problem is less so the restrictions but the messaging about future restrictions. It doesn't make any sense when we are ahead of most of the EU on vaccine rollout plus also have one of the youngest populations.

I think it's very reasonable to question this especially when the vaccine effectiveness is even better than expected. No wonder people feel the need to protest when no political or mainstream media voice is even questioning any of this.

gozunda

suicide_circus wrote: »

Poor old Pat Kenny made a show of himself on this topic on Newstalk yesterday morning. He was livid. Seething. Some contributors, while still condemning this horrendous outrage, tempered their spiel by pointing out the sacrifices young people had made and all the things they've lost out on. Pat rounded on them saying everyone had made sacrifices. The difference is, Pat, that these young people have made these sacrifices for people like you - the elderly - and not for themselves. Not a peep of gratitude out of him.

You're wrong there. Its not all 'young people'. Do you not believe or understand that all "young people" have parents and grandparents? That young people don't have friends and siblings of a similar age or indeed even themselves who have serious underlying conditions and illnesses? That it's not some "us and them" bs codology?

Those acting the maggot are a tiny subset of all young people. The absolute majority of which are not saying to everyone 'fuk ya - I'm going to party'. But hey it's these specific young ones with the finger up to their peers and everyone else that we should be grateful to :rolleyes:

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

But you should not dispute the fact that there were many people there - some good, some not so good.

Well lets ignore that they were all breaking the law, I mean attacking gardaí, protesting vaccines and high speed internet connectivity is not on the list of any exemptions I have seen.

But let's park that fact. I mean a simple 2 minute fact check would have clearly told anyone the sorts of ne'er do wells who were organizing the riot (Leo) so ignorance is absolutely no excuse.

But it is not my summation, the Commissioner stated that.

the demonstrators was a collaboration of groups made up of anti-lockdown protesters, anti-vaccine and anti-facemasks.

"This was groups working in concert together, as a mob.

Now your claim of fact that there was "good people" at it, is not a fact it's your opinion, which you have yet to quantify.

Reams of video evidence uploaded by the people that were at it, so the hilarity that it's the media manipulating it is laughable suggests otherwise.

Now we both well know what Commissioner Harris stated is pretty much a factual representation of what occurred.

But again there has been no evidence offered to counter it.