Do deeds have car space number on them?

punisher5112

Id say a scam or play on their part was going on.... Someone is or was getting paid rent for the space, then someone believe it's theirs or it was sold and paid for but they don't actually own it......

Someone will lose out but not you, it's not your problem.

If space is free park in it.

Given the circumstances, I think it might be a good idea to perhaps give the user of the space a heads up. Stick a note on their windscreen or something like that. Give them your contact details if you like, and let them know they've until X date to stop using the space (2 days notice would be more than reasonable, if there is paid parking nearby that they can use instead).

At least then they can't moan or complain. You gave them notice and let them know the craic (rather than just parking in it out of the blue, and them getting annoyed and trying to damage your car or something thinking you stole their space). Comes off more polite for all involved, and avoids you dealing with suspicious punctures or scratches on your car.

to99

Deleted User wrote: »

Given the circumstances, I think it might be a good idea to perhaps give the user of the space a heads up. Stick a note on their windscreen or something like that. Give them your contact details if you like, and let them know they've until X date to stop using the space (2 days notice would be more than reasonable, if there is paid parking nearby that they can use instead).

At least then they can't moan or complain. You gave them notice and let them know the craic (rather than just parking in it out of the blue, and them getting annoyed and trying to damage your car or something thinking you stole their space). Comes off more polite for all involved, and avoids you dealing with suspicious punctures or scratches on your car.

Yeah but the circumstances seem to be that the person currently occupying my space allegedly bought it off someone else in the building who claims they owned my space, when (allegedly) they didn't.

So, the "new owner" is not going to believe that they don't own the space as they think they bought it fair and square from someone else in the building. So they aren't going to go easily.

Now that I say it out loud... it sounds ludicrous :pac: I'm dying to see what document they have as title to my car space.

jamesbondings

to99 wrote: »

So I only recently went inquiring about our space.

I was correct in my assumption about my car space number but it was always occupied so I assumed I was wrong.

I contacted the management company to confirm the number and they said my space was another number which was the worst space in the car park- only big enough for a motorbike. Hence I got my solicitor involved. Ever since then I've been paying the meter to park out on the street.

That to me, seems like management have your spot leased out. And then gave you the bad spot to keep you happy. Or they sold it.

to99

to99 wrote: »

Yeah but the circumstances seem to be that the person currently occupying my space allegedly bought it off someone else in the building who claims they owned my space, when they didn't.

So, the "new owner" is not going to believe that they don't own the space as they think they bought it fair and square from someone else in the building. So they aren't going to go easily.

Now that I say it out loud... it sounds ludicrous :pac: I'm dying to see what document they have as title to my car space.

Oh, I understand the situation. That's why I'm saying stick a notice on their car/under their wiper. Let them know that you own the space and as of 06/03/21 will be using it again. Give them your phone number if you like, and when they ring, tell them the craic. You don't know what is the story with them thinking it's their space, but you've legal documents to demonstrate that it's your space.


Gives them a chance to get onto whoever is after selling/renting it to them, and they can still park their car there and go to work, and such.


Rather than they show up to a space they fully believe is their own, and another car is in it, which will just cause anger and people are quite stupid when they're angry or feel they're being walked over. Add that he'll now be late for work, might not have change to pay for parking, etc. and it'll be perceived as all being the fault of the car parked in 'his' space.

jamesbondings

to99 wrote: »

Yeah but the circumstances seem to be that the person currently occupying my space allegedly bought it off someone else in the building who claims they owned my space, when they didn't.

So, the "new owner" is not going to believe that they don't own the space as they think they bought it fair and square from someone else in the building. So they aren't going to go easily.

Now that I say it out loud... it sounds ludicrous :pac: I'm dying to see what document they have as title to my car space.

surely there was documentation shown to prove ownership of the plot if it was sold. More likely to me, the board have leased it (or a member of the board) to a neighbor.

Id be looking for every penny that was accrued on the rental of it. I cant see how it was sold? Would solicitors not have had to have been involved? If so surely it would have become apparent fairly swiftly the seller didnt own it.

to99

jamesbondings wrote: »

surely there was documentation shown to prove ownership of the plot if it was sold. More likely to me, the board have leased it (or a member of the board) to a neighbor.

Id be looking for every penny that was accrued on the rental of it. I cant see how it was sold? Would solicitors not have had to have been involved? If so surely it would have become apparent fairly swiftly the seller didnt own it.

Perhaps the management company didn't expect me to go and get a solicitor and were just fobbing me off with this information that the good car space could not be mine as it was sold to someone else.

Let's see what happens. Solicitor writing to them this week.

Caranica

to99 wrote: »

I think once we assert legal ownership I'll put down one of those parking posts as I'm not always at the property to leave a car there permanently.

Check if you actually have ownership rather than a long lease as with your apartment (mine is 100 years) before you put any post down.

Peregrinus

Lets say that the OP owns Flat Z, and that the title deeds to Flat Z say that car space number 1 goes with Flat Z.

The OP is now told that Flat X had two car spaces and sold one of them to Flat Y. The space they sold was car space no 1.

Obviously, if car space no 1 belongs to Flat Z, then it wasn't Flat X's to sell. So the OP looks to be in a strong position to reclaim the space.

What we don't know, though, is why Flat X though it was their's to sell, and why Flat Y also thought that. There must have been some reason for thinking that.

One possibility is an error in the original documentation - Flat X and Flat Z were both given documents identifying car space 1 as theirs (and Flat Y was shown Flat X's documents, which is why Flat Y was happy to accept that Flat X could sell them the space). The error wasn't spotted at the time because neither Flat X nor Flat Z ever had reason or opportunity to inspect one another's documents, and because the OP, in Flat Z, never sought to use his car space. So Flat X paid for it, used it, and never had any reason to think that anyone else had any claim to it. Whereas Flat Z paid for it, didn't use it, didn't notice that anyone else was using it, and so didn't object to that use.

Flat Y steps into Flat X's shows as regards the claim to the space.

That's a mess. Flat Y and Flat Z will have to slog it out for the space, and it's not clear to me on what basis that dispute will be resolved, or in whose favour. It may matter whether Flat X or Flat Z was sold first - once the vendor sold space no 1 to one flat, it wasn't his to sell to the other. Both Flat X and Flat Z have a claim against the vendor who sold the same space twice to two different people, but the vendor is likely to be a limited company that is no longer around.

Another possiblity is that the title plans showing the car spaces and the actual car spaces marked on the ground don't quite line up, and there is some ambiguity about whether car space no 1, as marked on the ground, corresponds to car space no 1, as shown in Flat Z's title deeds. That would complicate the issue further.

to99

I just found out online that the apartment that the management company claims is the owner of my car space has just gone sale agreed.... and the description of the property says;

The apartment comes with a "sought-after parking space."

punisher5112

to99 wrote: »

I just found out online that the apartment that the management company claims is the owner of my car space has just gone sale agreed.... and the description of the property says;

"This apartment also comes with a much sought-after parking space."

Park in it, id actually park a car in it that won't move till it's sorted.
They can't sell something you own.

yabadabado

OP you need to get sorted asap.

Have you spoken with the person who has been using the space?

I know you have a solicitor involved but does this other person have any idea there is something a miss ?

mrslancaster

to99 wrote: »

I just found out online that the apartment that the management company claims is the owner of my car space has just gone sale agreed.... and the description of the property says;

The apartment comes with a "much sought-after parking space."

sounds like a bit of a mess OP. Should you ask your solicitor to contact the estate agent that's handling the sale & let them know there's an issue with the parking space or even ring them yourself? I'd say whoever is buying the apartment would prefer to know about it before they sign any contracts.

punisher5112

mrslancaster wrote: »

sounds like a bit of a mess OP. Should you ask your solicitor to contact the estate agent that's handling the sale & let them know there's an issue with the parking space or even ring them yourself? I'd say whoever is buying the apartment would prefer to know about it before they sign any contracts.

Not his problem

yabadabado

punisher5112 wrote: »

Not his problem

It's not his problem but it might save some hassle by not adding another layer to the mess.

You would think the buyers solicitor will find out there is a problem when they review the paperwork ?

punisher5112

yabadabado wrote: »

It's not his problem but it might save some hassle by not adding another layer to the mess.

You would think the buyers solicitor will find out there is a problem when they review the paperwork ?

I'd say someone was renting it out or just using themselves, if money changed hands for a sale then that's fraud. All of this means nothing to the op and they should take their spot back and use as intended.
Why one would be pay parking when they have a spot is beyond me.

Vestiapx

punisher5112 wrote: »

Not his problem

How does conveyancing work with a car park space ?

yabadabado

punisher5112 wrote: »

I'd say someone was renting it out or just using themselves, if money changed hands for a sale then that's fraud. All of this means nothing to the op and they should take their spot back and use as intended.
Why one would be pay parking when they have a spot is beyond me.

I agree with you, the op should take back his spot .

Lenar3556

Vestiapx wrote: »

How does conveyancing work with a car park space ?

It’s probably just a covenant of the lease of his apartment that he has the right to use this parking space.

the_syco

to99 wrote: »

I just found out online that the apartment that the management company claims is the owner of my car space has just gone sale agreed.... and the description of the property says;

The apartment comes with a "much sought-after parking space."

Once it gets sold, I'd wonder if it'll effectiely reset anything you've done so far against the current owners? Would advise pressing the matter now.

punisher5112

the_syco wrote: »

Once it gets sold, I'd wonder if it'll effectiely reset anything you've done so far against the current owners? Would advise pressing the matter now.

How, it's nobody's to sell but the ops

Vestiapx

Lenar3556 wrote: »

It’s probably just a covenant of the lease of his apartment that he has the right to use this parking space.

If that was the case is it possible that he dosen't have the sole right and that another person also equally has the right. When a property is purchased the land is drawn out on a folio and it's clear whose land is who's. The folio for the areas surrounding are checked. But saying in a deed that parking space 53 is associated with apartment 12 isn't unique if there isn't a drawing it's a matter of definition and if there is, well what's to stop the same space being drawn on the lease for 4 or 5 apartments.

Not exercising ones rights upon purchase can clearly lead to other parties selling your parking space. Rightly or wrongly I might add.

I'm wondering if the space is now sold a third time how easy any comeback will be for the new owner.

Sleeper12

I suggest that you or your solicitor write to the estate agents & the person selling the apartment stating that the space is yours ASAP.

Darc19

to99 wrote: »

I just found out online that the apartment that the management company claims is the owner of my car space has just gone sale agreed.... and the description of the property says;

The apartment comes with a "much sought-after parking space."

Your solicitor should write to the estate agent informing them that there is a dispute over ownership of the parking space and that it belongs to apartment X

They are obligated to inform the purchaser

Lenar3556

Vestiapx wrote: »

If that was the case is it possible that he dosen't have the sole right and that another person also equally has the right. When a property is purchased the land is drawn out on a folio and it's clear whose land is who's. The folio for the areas surrounding are checked. But saying in a deed that parking space 53 is associated with apartment 12 isn't unique if there isn't a drawing it's a matter of definition and if there is, well what's to stop the same space being drawn on the lease for 4 or 5 apartments.

Not exercising ones rights upon purchase can clearly lead to other parties selling your parking space. Rightly or wrongly I might add.

I'm wondering if the space is now sold a third time how easy any comeback will be for the new owner.

Well any of these apartment ‘sales’ are actually long term leases, and the car park space is probably in the same boat.

It’s all going to land back to the OMC as the landlord and manager of the complex to get it resolved. That assumes this entity is solvent, and functional.

As a member of the OMC the OP may end up paying her share for the resolution of the whole saga out of her managment fees!

I would begin parking in it for a start. Putting up a bollard / space keeper is likely in contravention of the lease - I wouldn’t do that yet.

Peregrinus

punisher5112 wrote: »

Not his problem

It absolutely is. The longer you do nothing about letting other people use your land in the genuine belief that they are entitled to do so, the harder it becomes to assert your rights against them. If the OP believes that he has the exclusive rights to this space, he needs to let everyone who thinks they have any rights know about his position, and he needs to vigorously object to any use of the space that is inconsistent with his claim to exclusive rights.

punisher5112

Peregrinus wrote: »

It absolutely is. The longer you do nothing about letting other people use your land in the genuine belief that they are entitled to do so, the harder it becomes to assert your rights against them. If the OP believes that he has the exclusive rights to this space, he needs to let everyone who thinks they have any rights know about his position, and he needs to vigorously object to any use of the space that is inconsistent with his claim to exclusive rights.

They have though.
The management company are well aware.

They should be using the space right away, leaving it empty is ridiculous to be honest.

Solicitor is paid to solve the issue

Peregrinus

punisher5112 wrote: »

They have though.
The management company are well aware.

That's not enough. The person who most needs to be made aware is the owner of Flat Y, who bought the space in good faith, paid good money for it, genuinely and probably reasonably believes he owns it, is currently using it, and so far as we know currentlly has no idea that the OP sees anything amiss about this state of affairs.

And the longer the OP allows this situation to persist, the more he weakens his own position.

It's not enough to tell the mangement company. It's not the management company's job to relay this information to the owner of Flat Y, or to arbitrate a dispute between the OP and the owner of Flat Y, etc.

punisher5112 wrote: »

They should be using the space right away, leaving it empty is ridiculous to be honest.

As I understand it, it's not being left empty. The owner of Flat Y is using it.

Which means that the OP can't simply park on it, unless he hangs about in the carpark waiting for the owner of Flat Y to drive off, and then nips in with his own car, and then makes arrangements to ensure that the space is continually occupied thereafter to prevent the owner of Flay Y doing the same.

He doesn't have to do that. But he does have to contact the owner of Flat Y, pointing out that the space belongs to him, the OP, and requesting the owner of Flat Y to stop using it. And that will open a dialogue which, if pursued, will (hopefully) lead to fuller facts coming to light, and (also hopefully) a resolution
of the problem in favour (again, hopefully) of the OP.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Solicitor is paid to solve the issue

Solicitor is paid to advise on the issue and, if it comes to that, to represent the OP in litigation on the issue.

Caranica

Peregrinus wrote: »

It's not enough to tell the mangement company. It's not the management company's job to relay this information to the owner of Flat Y, or to arbitrate a dispute between the OP and the owner of Flat Y, etc.

I'd argue that the management company are the ones to tell Flat Y. Remember the management company issue documentation as part of the sale of a property in a managed development, they would have vouched for the accuracy of the data provided. So the management company are responsible for this situation, at least in part.

Peregrinus

Caranica wrote: »

I'd argue that the management company are the ones to tell Flat Y. Remember the management company issue documentation as part of the sale of a property in a managed development, they would have vouched for the accuracy of the data provided. So the management company are responsible for this situation, at least in part.

If this is true, this is precisely why the management company are the last people the OP should rely on to sort this out for him. They have their own interest in this matter; not to end up with a liablity themselves. They will certainly prioritise that over sorting out the OP's problem for him.