Could of would of

EmmetSpiceland · 05-02-2021 7:20pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The written language wasn't the same in the extract I posted. And it will keep changing.

Not sure what you’re referring to, sorry.

Regarding change, the English language has changed over time, Great Vowel Shift etc, and it will change in future but right now there are rules that apply to the “written word” which do not apply to spoken English.

That’s my understanding anyway.

Brendan Bendar · 05-02-2021 7:31pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Not sure what you’re referring to, sorry.

Regarding change, the English language has changed over time, Great Vowel Shift etc, and it will change in future but right now there are rules that apply to the “written word” which do not apply to spoken English.

That’s my understanding anyway.

Bulldust... complete and utter.

What rules apply to the ‘written word ‘ that don’t apply to spoken English ?

Is it correct to say “ I done it”. No

Is it correct to write “I done it”. No.

You can say it and write it any way you like, you can use colloquial language any way you like, you can decide to use the tenses any way you like , but, the end result as of 2021 ‘I done it’ is wrong.

Just take that on board and move on, dude.

LLMMLL · 05-02-2021 7:34pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Bulldust... complete and utter.

What rules apply to the ‘written word ‘ that don’t apply to spoken English ?

Is it correct to say “ I done it”. No

Is it correct to write “I done it”. No.

You can say it and write it any way you like, you can use colloquial language any way you like, you can decide to use the tenses any way you like , but, the end result as of 2021 ‘I done it’ is wrong.

Just take that on board and move on, dude.

Is it correct to say “I done it”. Yes

is_that_so · 05-02-2021 7:37pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

Is it correct to say “I done it”. Yes

Standard grammar rules suggest you're not right about that. What reference do you have to support this claim?

Brendan Bendar · 05-02-2021 7:38pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

Is it correct to say “I done it”. Yes

No, it’s not.

JoChervil · 05-02-2021 7:39pm

Proper spelling can save lives

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8nqi-RrfX0&lc=z22zxpyxiximvbzu0acdp435yjvecetldiwjjcunvvpw03c010c

is_that_so · 05-02-2021 7:40pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

“Agreed upon” is a stretch. Unless you mean that people who grew up in a group of people and talk like that group of people have reached an “agreement” with them.

It’s an implicit flexible agreement, not a contract.

There are lots of exceptions to rules in language. We usually call them “irregular verbs” etc.

It’s just that when a non dominant social group uses “irregular verbs” you consider it an ungrammatical error.

When the dominant social group uses them they are “irregular verbs”.

At best they are non-standard but they don't conform to accepted usage which makes them wrong. TBH your assertions here only work with English because there is no authority to define rules and usage as there is in other languages.

LLMMLL · 05-02-2021 7:45pm

is_that_so wrote: »

Standard grammar rules suggest you're not right about that. What reference do you have to support this claim?

Hundreds of thousands of native speakers ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

grammar "rules" are intended to describe how people speak, not set out rules that must be followed.

LLMMLL · 05-02-2021 7:50pm

is_that_so wrote: »

At best they are non-standard but they don't conform to accepted usage which makes them wrong. TBH your assertions here only work with English because there is no authority to define rules and usage as there is in other languages.

You think there's a standardization body for each of the thousands of languages in the world?

And even where they do exist, what actual authority do these bodies have? Why on Earth would you believe that they are correct and native speakers are incorrect?

EmmetSpiceland · 05-02-2021 7:54pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

You can say it and write it any way you like, you can use colloquial language any way you like, you can decide to use the tenses any way you like , but, the end result as of 2021 ‘I done it’ is wrong.

Yes, it is wrong to write “I done it”. If someone were to write “I done it and I put it in yizzers car” that would be wrong too.

If they were to speak either of these “phrases”, and the meaning is understood, then the language has done its job.

We might have to get the Queen of England to make a “judgement call” on whether the language of her people is a spoken or written language.

Brendan Bendar · 05-02-2021 7:55pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

Nowhere did I say it’s a free for all.

Because people do not speak in random ways unless they have specific kinds of brain damage.

People say “I seen” because they grew up around a group of people who consistently say “I seen”.

Just like you learned “I saw” because you grew up around a group of people who consistently say “I saw”.

That’s the only difference. You just want to believe your group is inherently “good”.

I learned ‘I saw’ because I was taught the official correct terminology.

Those are the facts, just like how sentences are constructed and formed.

Now you can decide to speak and write any way you like, people will understand you, probably, people will speak and write like you,but, the bottom line is you will be wrong.

It happens, folk get good jobs who can’t string a sentence together without mangling the tenses to bits, but that’s fair enough.

But it’s still wrong.

Brendan Bendar · 05-02-2021 7:57pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Yes, it is wrong to write “I done it”. If someone were to write “I done it and I put it in yizzers car” that would be wrong too.

If they were to speak either of these “phrases”, and the meaning is understood, then the language has done its job.

We might have to get the Queen of England to make a “judgement call” on whether the language of her people is a spoken or written language.

Sweet Jeebus!

LLMMLL · 05-02-2021 8:01pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I learned ‘I saw’ because I was taught the official correct terminology.

Those are the facts, just like how sentences are constructed and formed.

Now you can decide to speak and write any way you like, people will understand you, probably, people will speak and write like you,but, the bottom line is you will be wrong.

It happens, folk get good jobs who can’t string a sentence together without mangling the tenses to bits, but that’s fair enough.

But it’s still wrong.

Nobody's mangling tenses. Native speakers do not speak incorrectly. You just have a lack of education in linguistics.

Brendan Bendar · 05-02-2021 8:10pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

Nobody's mangling tenses. Native speakers do not speak incorrectly. You just have a lack of education in linguistics.

The lad who says, “ I seen that “ is.

LLMMLL · 05-02-2021 8:12pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

The lad who says, “ I seen that “ is.

He's not. And no linguist would agree with you.

05-02-2021 9:03pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

He's not. And no linguist would agree with you.

Know lingustic wood say wether its gramatically correct or knot.
Thats knot what they do.

Ugh. My eyes.
As bad as "I seen"

New Home · 05-02-2021 9:36pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

He's not. And no linguist would agree with you.

They'd still know the difference between correct grammar and incorrect grammar, which you don't seem to do.

By the way, irregular verbs are called so not because they do not need an auxiliary verb, but because they do not follow the usual "root+ed" rule (rules around "y" and "e" endings notwithstanding).

dxhound2005 · 05-02-2021 10:31pm

Those insisting that the current versions of See are the only possible correct ones, are ignoring what was previously correct. And in future there may be other versions which will be correct for that time. If the usage of I Seen instead of I Saw becomes common enough, it will be recognised as standard. There is no logical reason that Saw should remain the standard forever, no more than Seah did.

see (v.)
Old English seon "to see, look, behold; observe, perceive, understand; experience, visit, inspect" (contracted class V strong verb; past tense seah, past participle sewen)

New Home · 05-02-2021 10:32pm

No, but that is the only grammatically correct version at the moment.

LLMMLL · 05-02-2021 11:00pm

New Home wrote: »

They'd still know the difference between correct grammar and incorrect grammar, which you don't seem to do.

By the way, irregular verbs are called so not because they do not need an auxiliary verb, but because they do not follow the usual "root+ed" rule (rules around "y" and "e" endings notwithstanding).

There are irregular verbs in every language. It just means they dont follow one or more general patterns. Not all irregular verbs are irregular for the same reason.

LLMMLL · 05-02-2021 11:02pm

New Home wrote: »

No, but that is the only grammatically correct version at the moment.

That's not true. A grammatical construction does not have to be the dominant pattern to be grammatically correct. "I seen" is perfect English.

New Home · 05-02-2021 11:04pm

The requirement of using an auxiliary verb with with past participles isn't what makes verbs regular in English.

LLMMLL · 05-02-2021 11:08pm

New Home wrote: »

The requirement of using an auxiliary verb with with past participles isn't what makes verbs regular in English.

In English verbs can be irregular for a multitude of reasons. For example "be" is more irregular than "sit". It violates more patterns.

Any verb that breaks even one pattern is irregular.

New Home · 06-02-2021 8:15am

"More" irregular? That must be a technical term.

Eggs For Dinner · 06-02-2021 8:27am

People are learning grammar and punctuation through interaction on social media and private messaging, rather than in school. That's how the virus spreads and it is rampant.

joe40 · 06-02-2021 9:02am

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/aug/15/why-its-time-to-stop-worrying-about-the-decline-of-the-english-language

Interesting article about this topic.

Gaoth Laidir · 06-02-2021 3:31pm

On the one hand we have a huge portion of the population becoming more and more illiterate (yes, it is a type of illiteracy) but on the other hand we have these other twits who think corporate speak puts them on a higher pedestal. I see it every day. Young cocky upstarts fresh out of college after doing the MBA and it's leverage this, synergize (yes, with a z) that, blue-sky think the other...going forward. They really just sound like ****ing idiots and in most cases can't be taken seriously.

As bad and all as it was back in the bad old days, there's a lot to be said for whipping the ****e out of students nowadays and getting back to laying down the basics of the language. I've studied 10 languages now at this stage, but as far as I can see English seems to be the one most rife with this cancer. Whatever about someone making a mistake, that's fine, but when they refuse to accept their mistake and instead call you a grammar nazi for mentioning it...

It's just one more piece of evidence of the general dumbing down of the population through the technology age. People get their "facts" not from reading articles but from scanning the headlines. Twitter posts are taken as gospel without a second thought. You just have to look at the USA and UK.

ablelocks · 06-02-2021 3:39pm

LLMMLL wrote: »

"I seen" is perfect English.

It is in its bollix perfect English.

New Home · 06-02-2021 3:42pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

On the one hand we have a huge portion of the population becoming more and more illiterate (yes, it is a type of illiteracy) but on the other hand we have these other twits who think corporate speak puts them on a higher pedestal. I see it every day. Young cocky upstarts fresh out of college after doing the MBA and it's leverage this, synergize (yes, with a z) that, blue-sky think the other...going forward. They really just sound like ****ing idiots and in most cases can't be taken seriously.

As bad and all as it was back in the bad old days, there's a lot to be said for whipping the ****e out of students nowadays and getting back to laying down the basics of the language. I've studied 10 languages now at this stage, but as far as I can see English seems to be the one most rife with this cancer. Whatever about someone making a mistake, that's fine, but when they refuse to accept their mistake and instead call you a grammar nazi for mentioning it...

It's just one more piece of evidence of the general dumbing down of the population through the technology age. People get their "facts" not from reading articles but from scanning the headlines. Twitter posts are taken as gospel without a second thought. You just have to look at the USA and UK.

Agreed (even though I haven't studied 10 languages). Imagine if accountancy was treated the same way as grammar is....

dxhound2005 · 06-02-2021 4:46pm

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

On the one hand we have a huge portion of the population becoming more and more illiterate (yes, it is a type of illiteracy) but on the other hand we have these other twits who think corporate speak puts them on a higher pedestal. I see it every day. Young cocky upstarts fresh out of college after doing the MBA and it's leverage this, synergize (yes, with a z) that, blue-sky think the other...going forward. They really just sound like ****ing idiots and in most cases can't be taken seriously.

As bad and all as it was back in the bad old days, there's a lot to be said for whipping the ****e out of students nowadays and getting back to laying down the basics of the language. I've studied 10 languages now at this stage, but as far as I can see English seems to be the one most rife with this cancer. Whatever about someone making a mistake, that's fine, but when they refuse to accept their mistake and instead call you a grammar nazi for mentioning it...

It's just one more piece of evidence of the general dumbing down of the population through the technology age. People get their "facts" not from reading articles but from scanning the headlines. Twitter posts are taken as gospel without a second thought. You just have to look at the USA and UK.

You should read the article in the link in the post before yours.

Could of would of

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