Woman stabbed near IFSC

Mimon

Valresnick wrote: »

Is there any sensible non racist / non homophobic party that supports harsh sentencing and law and order ?

Fine Gael looked like they might inhabit that space but have moved away from it.

Politicans hide behind the separation of powers. Judges need to be accountable to someone though, some of their sentencing seems to be away with the faeries. Violent crimes should be full sentences and non of this suspended portion BS. The concurrent sentencing that has become the default is ridiculous also.

The lads out on the streets with 80/100 convictions is crazy. 3 strikes policy in US is too extreme but after 10th conviction I'd add an extra 5 for the craic.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Where does a 14 year old get this kind of violent streak? Probably from horrible parents, I've seen how some of those people around there scream right up into toddlers faces. How do you break this cycle of anger that seems to be in these people for generations?
He needs to be off the streets, but how are we allowing a 14 year old to develop this way in this day and age?

Ok I'll bite.

The IFSC area is or was a powder keg ready to be set light.

Believe it or not it was never fully thought out. A street or two from rich financial companies headquarters are low paid, social welfare estates of mostly semi detached houses. There's nothing to do in the area aside from a youth club and a boxing club. No where to play football. Dense two storey housing in the city centre next to the financial centre. What could possibly go wrong?

Add in apathy from, well everyone. Kids growing up on the street. So if you got away with robbing from Spar at 8. Calling a security guard names while you cycle away on your bike at 10(which I've seen first hand), you learn there's no consequences for your actions. So why would you do better in life? Why not see what else you can get away with?

Edit: i used to work in that area, finishing work just after the victim, so this could have been me.
I'm in no way accusing what was done just giving my take on how it got to that point.

ThunbergsAreGo

Mimon wrote: »

Fine Gael looked like they might inhabit that space but have moved away from it.

Completely forgetten their base in search of media lines and twitter kudos.

We now have SFFG, whose policies are basically the same on a number of key areas such as justice.

yosser hughes

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok I'll bite.



social welfare estates of mostly semi detached houses. There's nothing to do in the area aside from a youth club and a boxing club.
I'm in no way accusing what was done just giving my take on how it got to that point.

This is absolute nonsense and gets trotted out time and again by those who enable these people. The tired, predictable answer from all parties, including govt. parties is to increase welfare schemes. They continue to repeat this policy with the same results.
The patronising message from the left in particular is to provide more welfare as if that's all these people should aspire to. The result is inter- generational welfare dependency, drug addiction and crime. Bad outcomes for those that live there and society in general.
The family of this scumbag are lucky enough to live in the city centre,in free housing with their every cost of living met by the state. Free healthcare, education and generous welfare payments by international standards. With all the amenities the city has to offer.
Excuses need to stop and a change of direction needs to be made. Generations of families should not be allowed and enabled to arse around living off welfare.
We need proper sentencing and probably another prison.

Daragh1980

fantaiscool wrote: »

I didn't see any posts defending the attackers. Who would possibly defend 3 scumbags attacking a lone woman?

Lefties.
Staying silent and not condemning the attacker is the same as defending him.

The Left rarely condemn violent crime unless the perpetrator happens to be middle class / rugby player etc.

To be fair - given that the victim was an Asian cleaner, the Left will probably sympathise with her.
However if was a “suit” or other type of middle class professional, then the Left won’t give a toss because they despise such people.

tastyt

The thing that is really infuriating is the absolute obsession by some bleeding hearts to not see the badness in front of them

It’s amazing at the efforts that goes into trying to twist this story from “absolute scum stabs innocent woman in the neck “ to “ society has let these disadvantaged young people down “.

It’s always a case of how can we somehow blame the good law abiding tax payers of the country for this scrote and the way he is ?

It’s not always societies fault, and it’s got to the stage of farce where they are laughing and sneering at Garda with their camera phones and their “rights” and even laughing at judges in court .

Stop bending over backwards trying to help people who have no interest in being part of a normal society and throw everything back in your face .

Get dangerous people off the streets, lock up evil violent scumbags and protect your people . Give them proper sentences for the crimes they committed.

Then by all means if you want to give them hugs and listen to their sob stories work away, but at least have your own people protected while you do it

Doctors room ghost

Wouldn’t it be great if you could gather all the pond rats in the country and give them their own county.fence the border then like the trex pen in Jurassic park,only better and leave them to it.leave the rest of us in peace.
Donegal would be ideal

AndrewJRenko

Daragh1980 wrote: »

Lefties.
Staying silent and not condemning the attacker is the same as defending him.

The Left rarely condemn violent crime unless the perpetrator happens to be middle class / rugby player etc.

To be fair - given that the victim was an Asian cleaner, the Left will probably sympathise with her.
However if was a “suit” or other type of middle class professional, then the Left won’t give a toss because they despise such people.

Do you jump to condemn each and every violent crime that you hear about? You know, the ones that don't get threads on boards.ie because they haven't been carried out by a Muslim or an African or a welfare recipient? And what about all the ones that you haven't heard about - when are you going to condemn all the other violent crimes that occur?

Valresnick

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do you jump to condemn each and every violent crime that you hear about? You know, the ones that don't get threads on boards.ie because they haven't been carried out by a Muslim or an African or a welfare recipient? And what about all the ones that you haven't heard about - when are you going to condemn all the other violent crimes that occur?

All crimes regardless of who commits them should be punished accordingly stop trying to change the issue. We know that this is not happening in Ireland across the board, people are within their rights to be outraged and angry. We have no justice in this country, look at the many examples above if you bothered to even read this thread.

screamer

A 14 year old, holy fook. We can blame parents, lack of opportunity or youth clubs, violent video games..... does it matter? I don’t think so. He almost killed that lady and has subjected her to a long road to recovery and mental anguish assuming she makes it. He did that, he should be shown the consequences in full. I think it’s time to lower the age of criminal responsibility, if he can commit an adult crime he can serve an adult sentence.

Doctors room ghost

Valresnick wrote: »

All crimes regardless of who commits them should be punished accordingly stop trying to change the issue.

And they aren’t and haven’t been for years.
Seen a lad last week on the paper, headbutted a member of the public twice and he got a 9 month sentence.he had 100 previous convictions and this attack happened at lunch time with witnesses passing by.

Mimon

Daragh1980 wrote: »

Lefties.
Staying silent and not condemning the attacker is the same as defending him.

The Left rarely condemn violent crime unless the perpetrator happens to be middle class / rugby player etc.

To be fair - given that the victim was an Asian cleaner, the Left will probably sympathise with her.
However if was a “suit” or other type of middle class professional, then the Left won’t give a toss because they despise such people.

WTF

The Maverick

[Deleted User] wrote: »

....There's nothing to do in the area aside from a youth club and a boxing club. No where to play football. Dense two storey housing in the city centre next to the financial centre. What could possibly go wrong?........
Edit: i used to work in that area, finishing work just after the victim, so this could have been me.
I'm in no way accusing what was done just giving my take on how it got to that point.

As pointed out by another poster, this reply is nonsense. If you used to work in the area, have you forgotten the extremely high quality astro pitch at the youth club you mentioned on Common Street? There's another pitch 5 minutes walk away in the park at the junction of Gardiner Street and Sean MacDermot Street. There's more facilties, which are free to access, in this area then any middle class area in the State.

You can make all the excuses you want but this youth is a simply a scumbag, as his parents were before him. In a couple of years, he'll have served some trivial sentence for ruining this woman's life and he'll be back out around the area. At which point, he'll quickly have a few kids of his own, with a few different women. These will turn out to be scumbags too and the cycle will continue.

Daragh1980

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do you jump to condemn each and every violent crime that you hear about? You know, the ones that don't get threads on boards.ie because they haven't been carried out by a Muslim or an African or a welfare recipient? And what about all the ones that you haven't heard about - when are you going to condemn all the other violent crimes that occur?

I condemn as many crimes as I can.
I believe in appropriate sentencing for all types of crime, be they violent or non-violent.
My point is about the selective outrage of The Left who only seem to care about white collar crime or if some rich guy batters someone.

yosser hughes

screamer wrote: »

A 14 year old, holy fook. We can blame parents, lack of opportunity or youth clubs, violent video games..... does it matter? I don’t think so. He almost killed that lady and has subjected her to a long road to recovery and mental anguish assuming she makes it. He did that, he should be shown the consequences in full. I think it’s time to lower the age of criminal responsibility, if he can commit an adult crime he can serve an adult sentence.

Criminal responsibility in Ireland is 12 years, but there is also provision for 10- and 11-year-old children charged with serious offences including murder, manslaughter, rape or aggravated sexual assault to be tried in the Central Criminal Court.
There are various human rights groups that want it raised. Helen McEntee also favours raising the age of the youth diversion programme from 18 years of age to 24.

There are no end of advocates for these people and it's important to realise that social policy is discussed, debated and decided by people who for the most part live in the leafy avenues of Ranelagh, Clontarf, Ballsbridge, Donnybrook etc. Listen to any discussion on these problems on either TV and Radio and those discussing it do so in the abstract, they don't live among people like the perpetrator.
Decades of this wisdom and the resulting social policy it has produced has failed.

The Maverick

The Maverick wrote: »

As pointed out by another poster, this reply is nonsense. If you used to work in the area, have you forgotten the extremely high quality astro pitch at the youth club you mentioned on Common Street? There's another pitch 5 minutes walk away in the park at the junction of Gardiner Street and Sean MacDermot Street. There's more facilties, which are free to access, in this area then any middle class area in the State.

You can make all the excuses you want but this youth is a simply a scumbag, as his parents were before him. In a couple of years, he'll have served some trivial sentence for ruining this woman's life and he'll be back out around the area. At which point, he'll quickly have a few kids of his own, with a few different women. These will turn out to be scumbags too and the cycle will continue.

Exactly.

So long as we continue to pay people for having kids, then we're only going to see problems grow.

Right now, you're paid child benefit for each child but also a 'Child Dependent' rate on Social Welfare claims.
You're talking about e70 a week per child.

Then you have the fact a bigger family is prioritised for social housing.

You end up with scumbags having kids to increase their income and getting themselves a house quicker; see M.Cash putting her kids into the Guards station for evidence of how this "The poor children" approach helps with housing.

A secondary issue is that we aren't increasing our prison spaces, so scumbags are spending more of their adult life out of prison, with more opportunities for breeding.

If you're going to pay scumbags to have kids, then they're going to have large numbers, they wont raise them right, more social housing is required and the problem grows and grows instead of getting better.

But it's ok folks, our politicians are working hard on legislation such a Minimum Unit Pricing of Alcohol instead of tackling real social issues we ALL have to deal with.

Northernlily

The Maverick wrote: »

As pointed out by another poster, this reply is nonsense. If you used to work in the area, have you forgotten the extremely high quality astro pitch at the youth club you mentioned on Common Street? There's another pitch 5 minutes walk away in the park at the junction of Gardiner Street and Sean MacDermot Street. There's more facilties, which are free to access, in this area then any middle class area in the State.

You can make all the excuses you want but this youth is a simply a scumbag, as his parents were before him. In a couple of years, he'll have served some trivial sentence for ruining this woman's life and he'll be back out around the area. At which point, he'll quickly have a few kids of his own, with a few different women. These will turn out to be scumbags too and the cycle will continue.

Plenty more scumbags like this fella in the area. It's not so long ago a deliveroo rider was mowed down off his bike by one of them.

Gary Gannon etc need to stop making excuses for scumbags they represent and call out the social problems that exist.

Meanwhile Owen Keegan wants to throw 22 million at a white water rafting facility in Spencer Dock. Get your house in order first Owen.

Thelonious Monk

Yeah but if you cut social welfare and housing etc, they'll still have kids, and I'd imagine they'd be living in poverty and this environment will create even more scumbags. If we locked this kid up forever, a similar crime will happen soon after, we'll all be shocked and then it'll happen again and again.
There's an anger and violence in some youth here in Ireland, in these areas, I've never seen anywhere else. I don't think I'm a bleeding heart liberal for saying we need to look at the root of these issues and why it happens here, and what can be done to prevent it happening in future. I think it's a complicated web of intergenerational hardship and poverty and abuse.
I say this as someone who's family was a victim of a horrific murder by teenagers, and they didn't do a day in jail. It's quickly forgotten about, you're left to pick up the pieces, and then it just happens again.

yosser hughes

yosser hughes wrote: »

Criminal responsibility in Ireland is 12 years, but there is also provision for 10- and 11-year-old children charged with serious offences including murder, manslaughter, rape or aggravated sexual assault to be tried in the Central Criminal Court.

By the time they get to 12 they are well used to getting away with everything. The worst thing that was ever done was raising the age to 12, put it back to 7 years old.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There's nothing to do in the area aside from a youth club and a boxing club. No where to play football. Dense two storey housing in the city centre next to the financial centre. What could possibly go wrong?
.

Ah would you go away out of that. Nothing to do in the centre of the biggest city in the country? Well more to do than in most small towns/suburbs - can remember being absolutely bored out my tree some summers aged 10-14, and while we’d get up to mischief the odd time (as all kids do) it somehow never occurred to me and my mates to go around intimidating/assaulting/near murdering people for the hell of it. And this was all before you’d Netflix and smartphones and the like to keep us occupied.

Let’s call a spade a spade, there are segments of society living in the city centre that have no apparent sense of empathy towards their fellow citizens (those who fund their entire lives). Fair enough if they want to live like that, that’s their prerogative - but something needs to be done to demonstrate to these that this kind of general scummery is no longer tolerated by society at large.

...Ghost...

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah but if you cut social welfare and housing etc, they'll still have kids, and I'd imagine they'd be living in poverty and this environment will create even more scumbags. If we locked this kid up forever, a similar crime will happen soon after, we'll all be shocked and then it'll happen again and again.
There's an anger and violence in some youth here in Ireland, in these areas, I've never seen anywhere else. I don't think I'm a bleeding heart liberal for saying we need to look at the root of these issues and why it happens here, and what can be done to prevent it happening in future. I think it's a complicated web of intergenerational hardship and poverty and abuse.
I say this as someone who's family was a victim of a horrific murder by teenagers, and they didn't do a day in jail. It's quickly forgotten about, you're left to pick up the pieces, and then it just happens again.

Firstly let me say I sympathise with your family experience. My eldest sibling was killed a few years ago in an unprovoked attack from a guy who had walked free from an identical style attack not long before. It was caught on CCTV and the scummer was given a few years behind bars. My sibling was barely past 30 years of age when he was attacked. Let them off and they will do it again.

The issues are complex, but we need to start with some simple solutions and stem the crippling culture of entitlement. I fully support the need for people to be given accommodation and be supported, but we are getting it so very wrong. A person on the dole should not be given a house beside a family who did things the right way...went to school, got a job, worked hard, saved for years, took out a 30-40 year mortgage and pays an average of €1500 per month paying down that mortgage for the first decade or two. This system does nothing to encourage welfare recipients to improve themselves. Worse still is when it's the HAP and the tax payer is shelling out for the rent to private landlords.

Some council tenants get their sh!t together and get a job and this is great, but lets face it....the system here is broken too. There are many 3+ bed council properties occupied by 1 or 2 people for a number of reasons, including family breakups, or kids moving out. The former often results in a second council property being occupied by the person who left the first. The later often results in multiple council properties being occupied by the kids who came from the first property. I personally know of 2 families who split up and on both occasions, custody of kids was manipulated to allow the other person secure a council or HAP property so the kids would have a place to sleep at both parents residences. I could go into much more detail here, but I will leave it at that.

On the cutting of welfare, I agree that kids will still be born into welfare culture families, but I put forward the argument that it would no longer be encouraged for a young girl to have multiple children before she is 20 in order to secure a council house beside her mammy. The city centre should no longer be host to this culture. If you need housing and support because you've grown up on a disadvantaged environment and are now living in cramped conditions, then you should be helped. However, that help should be provided in the form of dedicated units outside the main cities, but close to transport hubs and with good amenities. They could be small comfortable apartments and should be assigned appropriately depending on the number of occupants. They wouldn't be €500k properties in Dublins city centre.

Help should be given by means of education and practical courses. Childcare could be provided at free or highly subsidised rates to allow the parent(s) get their lives on track. Give them a bus pass, give them healthcare and give them a path to exit that situation where they can eventually buy or rent an affordable home. I have seen a system like this in Sweden and it worked really well. Nobody should be entitled to live next door to Mammy in the most expensive properties in Europe.

ShineOn7

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

Wouldn’t it be great if you could gather all the pond rats in the country and give them their own county.fence the border then like the trex pen in Jurassic park,only better and leave them to it.leave the rest of us in peace.
Donegal would be ideal

Achill Island surely is best

Doctors room ghost

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Achill Island surely is best

No good shineon.
There’s a road bridge to the mainland.they’d figure it out like the crows learning to use sticks as tools.
We’d be back to square one again.

screamer

On the welfare point, there should be no free money. Take that dole payment and give it as a subsidy to an employer to take them into the workplace. My granny used to say the devil makes work for idle hands, and I agree, if they had to get their holes out of bed in the morning and go and do an honest days work, they’d have no time for crime and making more of themselves. Also, they might actually appreciate what they have as they’ve had to work for it. No more of this no opportunities marginalised crap

Outkast_IRE

screamer wrote: »

On the welfare point, there should be no free money. Take that dole payment and give it as a subsidy to an employer to take them into the workplace. My granny used to say the devil makes work for idle hands, and I agree, if they had to get their holes out of bed in the morning and go and do an honest days work, they’d have no time for crime and making more of themselves. Also, they might actually appreciate what they have as they’ve had to work for it. No more of this no opportunities marginalised crap

This has been tried in many countries at many times including Ireland during the last recession in some form. It never works unscrupulous employers will lay off normal employees and take on these scheme cases, resulting in worse conditions and terms of employment for all involved.

Thelonious Monk

I don't know why people are talking about welfare anyway, people on welfare and their children aren't inherently violent. It's a bit more complicated than that.

We need a 3 strikes policy or a 5 strikes policy. I'd bet this particular scumbag has multiples of that already.

Automatic 10 years for 5 convictions would sort a few of them out.

walshb

So who are we blaming for this latest depraved act?

14 years of age..

Waiting for the usual guff “sure the kids have nowhere t go. No parks or places to hang out. I blame the gubberment.”

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

We need a 3 strikes policy or a 5 strikes policy. I'd bet this particular scumbag has multiples of that already.

Automatic 10 years for 5 convictions would sort a few of them out.

Reported he has had dealings with gardai already..

How about no fooking strikes? First time is your last time!

Thelonious Monk

Where are all the "If this was the other way around it would be called a racist attack" brigade from the Balbriggan thread?
Because this isn't being called a racist attack, just thuggery.