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What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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    #3542
    newhouse87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Do you not think some if them at least are motivated by trying to contribute and do good for society?

    I'm under no illusion as to the presence of selfishness but I also think many people have genuinely decent intentions.

    Biden chose not to run in 2016 as he was grieving his son, he said he decided to in 20 because he felt the country needed Trump out of office and he obviously believed he was the best chance for that to happen.

    I'm sure he likes being President and is proud he achieved it, but, I dont think it was his personal ambition to become so because if it really was, he'd have done it in 16.

    Was AOC motivated be selfish goals in pushing a climate bill mich of the country is not ready for?

    Were the GOP politicians who stood up to Trump selfishly motivated, when they knew they were drawing the ure if their party on ti themselves in doing so?

    Biden has ran for president 3 times, first in 1988. I believe AOC is looking after her interests and only her supporters interests. All politicians will have some policies we disagree with and agree with on both sides for me but im more republican inclined. Climate change bill i agree with AOC. I simply stated i like haley and i believe she is a much better candidate then trump and more or a moderate conservative which i am myself.


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    #3543
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,522 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    newhouse87 wrote: »
    Biden has ran for president 3 times, first in 1988. I believe AOC is looking after her interests and only her supporters interests. All politicians will have some policies we disagree with and agree with on both sides for me but im more republican inclined. Climate change bill i agree with AOC. I simply stated i like haley and i believe she is a much better candidate then trump and more or a moderate conservative which i am myself.

    Aoc raised 5M for Texas during the snowstorm while GOP stalwarts Cruz took off across the border and Abbott blamed her Green New Deal for the problems.

    Her supporters didnt benefit from AOC doing this although she obviously got good press in doing so.


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    #3544
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,023 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    newhouse87 wrote: »
    Biden has ran for president 3 times, first in 1988. I believe AOC is looking after her interests and only her supporters interests. All politicians will have some policies we disagree with and agree with on both sides for me but im more republican inclined. Climate change bill i agree with AOC. I simply stated i like haley and i believe she is a much better candidate then trump and more or a moderate conservative which i am myself.

    You'll be all for the Democratic Party then, in that case. :pac:


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    #3545
    newhouse87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Aoc raised 5M for Texas during the snowstorm while GOP stalwarts Cruz took off across the border and Abbott blamed her Green New Deal for the problems.

    Her supporters didnt benefit from AOC doing this although she obviously got good press in doing so.

    You are missing my point, they all can do good stuff but they also in the majority are self serving on both sides. Can i ask you have you any good thing to say about republican's except for standing up to trump?


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    #3546
    newhouse87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Tony EH wrote: »
    You'll be all for the Democratic Party then, in that case. :pac:

    You think the squad are moderate conservatives?


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    #3547
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,023 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    newhouse87 wrote: »
    You think the squad are moderate conservatives?

    I said, "The Democratic Party". ;)


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    #3548
    newhouse87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Tony EH wrote: »
    I said, "The Democratic Party". ;)

    They are part of the democratic party so your point is moot. Joe Manchin, can get on board with his ideals alright.


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    #3549
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,023 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    newhouse87 wrote: »
    They are part of the democratic party so your point is moot. Joe Manchin, can get on board with his ideals alright.

    They are merely six people.

    I'll repeat for you again...in bold, underlined and italics, so you might get this time.

    THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY

    The "moderate conservative" party in the U.S.

    :pac:


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    #3550
    newhouse87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Tony EH wrote: »
    They are merely six people.

    I'll repeat for you again...in bold, underlined and italics, so you might get this time.

    THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY

    The "moderate conservative" party in the U.S.

    :pac:

    I will repeat again they cant be a moderate conservative party with a far left coalition in their ranks. You are simply inaccurate. No point dragging this on, you tried to be funny, you did not succeed, stop digging a hole and leave it go.


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    #3551
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,023 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    newhouse87 wrote: »
    I will repeat again they cant be a moderate conservative party with a far left coalition in their ranks. You are simply inaccurate. No point dragging this on, you tried to be funny, you did not succeed, stop digging a hole and leave it go.

    No. There isn't. You're just another poster who's incapable of understanding a basic point.

    The fact of the matter is, however, if you are supportive of the Republican Party (in it's current form) and/or Donald Trump, you are not a "moderate conservative".


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    #3552
    newhouse87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Tony EH wrote: »
    No. There isn't. You're just another poster who's incapable of understanding a basic point.

    The fact of the matter is, however, if you are supportive of the Republican Party (in it's current form) and/or Donald Trump, you are not a "moderate conservative".

    No you are just factually wrong- majority of dems are modern liberals. Good day sir, no point debating with somebody who cant see he is factually wrong but continues to argue like a child. BTW i was never a supporter of trump but that's just you gaslighting.


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    #3553
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,522 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    newhouse87 wrote: »
    You are missing my point, they all can do good stuff but they also in the majority are self serving on both sides. Can i ask you have you any good thing to say about republican's except for standing up to trump?

    I think youre missing the point, some politicians are motivated to do good for their society, Bernie Sanders would likely have become President if he wasnt so focused on helping lower and middle class people.

    I'm living in Massachusetts and it has a Republican Governor and I thought his handling of Covid response was excellent last Spring. I think Romney is a decent person and politicianand thought so long before he stood up to Trump. But, I'm not obligated to find praise for Republicans. The vast majority of their key players are falling over themselves with regressive rhetoric in an attempt to capture the affections if Trumps 74M voters. If any one of them becomes President, it'll be bad for society.


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    #3554
    newhouse87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭newhouse87


    Tell me how wrote: »
    I think youre missing the point, some politicians are motivated to do good for their society, Bernie Sanders would likely have become President if he wasnt so focused on helping lower and middle class people.

    I'm living in Massachusetts and it has a Republican Governor and I thought his handling of Covid response was excellent last Spring. I think Romney is a decent person and politicianand thought so long before he stood up to Trump. But, I'm not obligated to find praise for Republicans. The vast majority of their key players are falling over themselves with regressive rhetoric in an attempt to capture the affections if Trumps 74M voters. If any one of them becomes President, it'll be bad for society.

    I have said they do some good but also are self serving.
    That's why i said haley id like to see as next republican candidate, i don't find her regressive like some of the top brass in the gop. Anyway off out for some sun.


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    #3555
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,023 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Tell me how wrote: »
    I think youre missing the point, some politicians are motivated to do good for their society, Bernie Sanders would likely have become President if he wasnt so focused on helping lower and middle class people.

    Sanders was scuppered by the DNC twice. The "moderately conservative" party of America couldn't bring themselves to support him and he was never really going to get a chance, despite much support from actual voters. Instead they chose "moderately conservative" candidates like Hilary Clinton and Joe Biden, the latter of which was probably the best move they could have made to bring Republican voters away from the disaster that was the Trump admin and allow them a modicum of face saving.

    And, of course there are some politicians who are genuinely motivated to good for the society they work for. But far too often they get ground down by the system and party politics, to which they usually have to surrender they personal beliefs. Something we see all too often here in Ireland with the employment of the whip system. A system specifically designed to crush personal beliefs within a political party.

    The politicians who are motivated by the "better angels of our nature" rarely get a shot at the top job though, unfortunately.


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    #3556
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,522 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    newhouse87 wrote: »
    I have said they do some good but also are self serving.
    That's why i said haley id like to see as next republican candidate, i don't find her regressive like some of the top brass in the gop. Anyway off out for some sun.

    Haley's pandering to Trumps base is the epitome of regressive.

    With your logic any deed is self serving because you are satisfying your desire to do something, by doing it. As I said if Sanders had softened his liberal stance, he'd likely have become President. But he felt fighting for those who need it was more important than any desire he had to the highest office.


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    #3557
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,522 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Tony EH wrote: »
    And, of course there are some politicians who are genuinely motivated to good for the society they work for. But far too often they get ground down by the system and party politics, to which they usually have to surrender they personal beliefs. Something we see all too often here in Ireland with the employment of the whip system. A system specifically designed to crush personal beliefs within a political party.

    The politicians who are motivated by the "better angels of our nature" rarely get a shot at the top job though, unfortunately.

    And politicians literally have to play politics with their electorate. Michael McDowell wanted to challenge the Gardai and the courts while he was Minister for Justice. He's thanks? Not even returned to Dail Eireann and he had contested that election as party leader and Tanaiste.

    And we've seen GOP members who held Trump to account for his actions very challenged by their party in a sort of retrospective whip action as you outlined.

    I think this is why AOC didnt push the $15 min wage too forcefully when she saw it was being railroaded, she is learning to pick her battles.


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    #3558
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,023 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Tell me how wrote: »
    And politicians literally have to play politics with their electorate. Michael McDowell wanted to challenge the Gardai and the courts while he was Minister for Justice. He's thanks? Not even returned to Dail Eireann and he had contested that election as party leader and Tanaiste.

    Agreed. There are all kinds of game playing to be observed, which is why politics is such a dirty business and placing one's trust in any politician can often be a fool's errand because of the constraints they have to operate within. But then, that often lets politicians off the hook to for their blatant lies. They can promise the sun, moon and the stars before an election, then say that they couldn't deliver because of red tape from within and without.

    Another example of a politician that stuck to their principles and got chucked is Lucinda Creighton, whose stance on abortion didn't jive with the party. Their solution was to kick her out. Now, I don't agree with her or her former party on much of anything. But if sticking to a principle results in a career destruction, it's no wonder that politicians become lying machines that blow smoke up the arses of anyone that's willing to listen.

    In the context of the country the topic is concerned with, however, there is even less room for manoeuvre, due to limited options that each party offer. Both are conservative options that differ slightly and the choices for the votership often come down to "not the other guy".
    Tell me how wrote: »
    And we've seen GOP members who held Trump to account for his actions very challenged by their party in a sort of retrospective whip action as you outlined.

    I think this is why AOC didnt push the $15 min wage too forcefully when she saw it was being railroaded, she is learning to pick her battles.

    American politics is even worse than our own shower (which is why it makes for such a fascinating test case). We're talking about a one party system that shifts office every few years, but nothing substantial changes due to the tight constraints that both conservative options restrict themselves to.

    It's why there will never be a man like Sanders in the White House, or even Cortez. Their own party won't allow it. At least not yet anyway. But Cortez is young and still has a lot of ground to walk. In a decade or two, the atmosphere might right for someone like her to have a shot at the top job. As things stand, either party just aren't interested in promoting such people.


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    #3559
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,485 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    newhouse87 wrote: »
    No you are just factually wrong- majority of dems are modern liberals. Good day sir, no point debating with somebody who cant see he is factually wrong but continues to argue like a child. BTW i was never a supporter of trump but that's just you gaslighting.

    If you're a supporter of the current GOP, then you are no longer a moderate conservative, you would be classified as an extreme conservative in your views. The DNC would be closer to moderate conservative, even with their liberal wing included.

    The fact that you don't like that label is neither here nor there.

    In the future the GOP may start swinging back towards moderate conservatism, but it looks like it'll take another presidential election and hitting the limits of voter suppression and gerrymandering before that can happen.

    When the GOP starts moving back towards the middle, the DNC will likely move to be more liberal as well.


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    #3560
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users Posts: 2,024 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    newhouse87 wrote: »
    They are part of the democratic party so your point is moot. Joe Manchin, can get on board with his ideals alright.

    This is funny. The Democratic Party can't be the moderate conservative party because they have members who are further to the left, but the Republican Party can be the moderate conservative party despite having more members who could be described as far right.

    Well, its good to see the one consistent thing about Trump supporters hasn't changed. Their complete lack of consistency.


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    #3561
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Republican party have moved more and more to the extreme right since Nixon was ousted. Nothing about the current Republican party is moderate in any way, its akin to saying the DUP are moderate unionists.


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    #3562
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Seems Trump is staying active in the background and helping raise money for Republicans.

    And Trump is still planning on starting a new social media network. Of course the biased media is claiming it's doomed to fail. Maybe it is, maybe not. But supporters, Republicans, Democrats and the media I’m sure will all sign up to hear what he has to say, now that the worthless entities of Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube have thrown him off. And without Trump what does the media have to print about? Nothing interesting, or even true, apparently.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #3563
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Seems Trump is staying active in the background and helping raise money for Republicans.

    And Trump is still planning on starting a new social media network. Of course the biased media is claiming it's doomed to fail. Maybe it is, maybe not. But supporters, Republicans, Democrats and the media I’m sure will all sign up to hear what he has to say, now that the worthless entities of Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube have thrown him off. And without Trump what does the media have to print about? Nothing interesting, or even true, apparently.
    Have all the social media platforms collapsed as a result of his absence? :pac: The only people signing up for a Trump social media platform are the same types of people on Gab and likes... So incredibly niche at best.


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    #3564
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Seems Trump is staying active in the background and helping raise money for Republicans.

    And Trump is still planning on starting a new social media network. Of course the biased media is claiming it's doomed to fail. Maybe it is, maybe not. But supporters, Republicans, Democrats and the media I’m sure will all sign up to hear what he has to say, now that the worthless entities of Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube have thrown him off. And without Trump what does the media have to print about? Nothing interesting, or even true, apparently.

    I wonder will he launch it a year out from the next presidential election. Could do wonders for his campaign, if he wants to run again


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    #3565
    notobtuse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Have all the social media platforms collapsed as a result of his absence? :pac: The only people signing up for a Trump social media platform are the same types of people on Gab and likes... So incredibly niche at best.
    Have no idea. Don't pay attention since I deleted my accounts from them after they kicked him off. And cares about them, anyway. Regardless, it is a foolish business plan of theirs to give a potential rival many millions of subscribers just like that. And you really don't think the democrats or the media will sign up just to hear what he has to say, so they can use it against him and Republicans? The media seems to be simply fawning worthless democrat scribes since Trump left office. They'll need to sign up so they can get their 'scoops' and not continue to bleed readers and viewers.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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    #3566
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users Posts: 2,024 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I wonder will he launch it a year out from the next presidential election. Could do wonders for his campaign, if he wants to run again

    It’s being launched in 2 weeks. Always 2 weeks.


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    #3567
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Have all the social media platforms collapsed as a result of his absence? :pac: The only people signing up for a Trump social media platform are the same types of people on Gab and likes... So incredibly niche at best.

    Remember those threads about Twitter dying and everyone would shift to other platforms..

    January 9th Trump suspended Twitter share price ~$51.
    Twitter share price today ~$66


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    #3568
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Interest in Trump is at its lowest in 5 years in the US https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=%2Fm%2F0cqt90&geo=US


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    #3569
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,624 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Regardless, it is a foolish business plan of theirs to give a potential rival many millions of subscribers just like that. And you really don't think the democrats or the media will sign up just to hear what he has to say, so they can use it against him and Republicans?

    Anything he says on this hypothetical platform would be available online within seconds, you won't need to sign up. Welcome to the internet. As for a "foolish business plan", the foolish thing would have been to permit a known charlatan to use their platform to continue to spread his lies and disinformation.


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    #3570
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,284 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Seems Trump is staying active in the background and helping raise money for Republicans.

    And Trump is still planning on starting a new social media network. Of course the biased media is claiming it's doomed to fail. Maybe it is, maybe not. But supporters, Republicans, Democrats and the media I’m sure will all sign up to hear what he has to say, now that the worthless entities of Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube have thrown him off. And without Trump what does the media have to print about? Nothing interesting, or even true, apparently.

    If he does start his own social media network I'm sure it will be every bit as good as the one started by the MyPillow guy.


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    #3571
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,151 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    I wouldn't be able to resist to reply with **** off!

    https://twitter.com/JimSwiftDC/status/1386642713873985539?s=19


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