Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

2500+ deaths shows that we failed to protect our most vulnerable. I doubt there are many other countries that have allowed this to spread so rampantly in nursing homes and hospitals.

460000 on PUP shows how many lives have been destroyed by lockdowns and restrictions. About 185 people have to be out of work per death.

We had to get the balance right. More actions and restrictions in places where the vulnerable are. Less restrictions on the fit and healthy so they can continue to drive the country forward.

Instead we’ve managed to burn the whole place to the ground. Half a million fit and healthy people out of work is a national embarrassment

we have got the best balance we can, more restrictions on people more vulnerable and less on fit and healthy doesn't work, it fails, we already know this as it means higher transmission rates and a higher level of virus in the community.
most of those out of work will in all likely hood return to work, if we did not control the virus, eventually it's highly likely it would have been a million out of work as case numbers rise, hospital numbers rise, and everything else slowly begins to crash as they feel the effects of less people to do the job due to isolations, people suffering from covid, etc.
your solutions are unworkable, they have actually been effectively demonstrated thanks to the likes of sweden and the US.

average_runner wrote: »

Can't sack them, union won't allow it

incorrect.
unions cannot stop someone from being sacked as long as their sacking is within the law and within the agreed procedures.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Your argument is based on opinion.

The points you are refuting are factual

my argument is based on fact.
the points i am refuting aren't fact.

SAMTALK

hamburgham wrote: »

The decision to open schools has to be OBJECTIVE and not based on subjective 'feelings'.

Feeling safe is subjective. Everyone has their own threshold. I don't feel safe walking around certain areas at night, someone else could feel relaxed. And to be frank, people who are extremely risk averse are often fairly neurotic. Are we to let these people dictate policy?

tbf I'd imagine you'd feel less safe if you had someone beside you for hours, maybe with no comprehension of Social Distancing, hygiene etiquette, etc

People need to vent their anger towards Norma Foley and Dept of Education for the way they handled all this in the first place.

hamburgham

hamburgham wrote: »

The decision to open schools has to be OBJECTIVE and not based on subjective 'feelings'.

Feeling safe is subjective. Everyone has their own threshold. I don't feel safe walking around certain areas at night, someone else could feel relaxed. And to be frank, people who are extremely risk averse are often fairly neurotic. Are we to let these people dictate policy?

Muggers and rapists/criminals are not airborne last time I looked. There's nothing subjective here, you cannot see the threat and you're in the high risk zone for hours on end. look at the people who are dictating policy, that's what's worrying in my view. In any case, I was just wondering, I'm not opening that can of worms, best of luck to both sides I say.

The Nal

Sorry folks.....

https://yarn.co/yarn-clip/055c0443-5068-4c8a-a08d-ff206f9574f2

FintanMcluskey

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/covid-19-government-set-to-extend-level-5-restrictions-to-late-february-1.4463199?mode=amp

It is understood the hospitality sector may not reopen properly until late May or early June.

Senior figures in the industry are understood to have recently asked Government if a reopening would be possible after the end of March when the most vulnerable people in the country have been vaccinated against Covid 19 but were told this was not likely.

Unlikely that normality will ever return for little ol Oireland

Does anyone remember flatten the curve?

Mr. Karate

The Nal wrote: »

Sorry folks.....

https://yarn.co/yarn-clip/055c0443-5068-4c8a-a08d-ff206f9574f2

Well we all knew Level 5 would go past month so that's no surprise.

The fact they still refuse to commit to reopening even May and June when it should be warmer and hardly getting sick is infuriating.

end of the road

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Well we all knew Level 5 would go past month so that's no surprise.

The fact they still refuse to commit to reopening even May and June when it should be warmer and hardly getting sick is infuriating.

if they did that and then were unable to follow through on it people would be whinging.
better not to give any commitments and just reopen when it is safe to do so.

PTH2009

Déjà vu

This is a ****ing shambles

Surely at that rate every pub in Ireland will be gone or purchased by some empty faced cookoo fund of sorts...

This really will send some off the deep end, it's not good at all.

Silentcorner

I'd love to see "the science" behind this call!!!

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/covid-19-government-set-to-extend-level-5-restrictions-to-late-february-1.4463199?mode=amp





Unlikely that normality will ever return for little ol Oireland

Does anyone remember flatten the curve?

What do you think they are trying to do?

questionmark?

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Unlikely that normality will ever return for little ol Oireland

Yes it will.
Things will go back to normal eventually. The argument/discussion now is when to relax restrictions before eventually getting rid of them.

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

What do you think they are trying to do?

That chart may as well be written on the back of a fag box.

We have no idea how many people were infected in the last surge in March/April as we were only testing people with two or more symptoms.

Take out the people who caught it in hospital
Take out the people who never showed any symptoms or were sick in any way.

How would that look!

This surge will be past us very soon, we will go back to testing healthy people again (people who are not sick in any way) giving us a false picture just like the one you posted.

Madness!

FintanMcluskey

rusty cole wrote: »

Surely at that rate every pub in Ireland will be gone or purchased by some empty faced cookoo fund of sorts...

This really will send some off the deep end, it's not good at all.

I said this a few weeks ago and I was laughed out the gate.

The traditional pub is finished in Ireland.

Weatherspoons or the likes is what the future of the pubs scene will be in Ireland

opinionated3

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I said this a few weeks ago and I was laughed out the gate.

The traditional pub is finished in Ireland.

Weatherspoons or the likes is what the future of the pubs scene will be in Ireland

Think I'll seriously look at leaving the country if that happens.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

That chart may as well be written on the back of a fag box.

We have no idea how many people were infected in the last surge in March/April as we were only testing people with two or more symptoms.

Take out the people who caught it in hospital
Take out the people who never showed any symptoms or were sick in any way.

How would that look!

This surge will be past us very soon, we will go back to testing healthy people again (people who are not sick in any way) giving us a false picture just like the one you posted.

Madness!

Well, that's another bunch of complete nonsense.

The question was about the curve - which was flattened in the spring and will be flattened again, but the graph does clearly show the the slope on the curve was too steep in December, which caused a large part of the current mess. The curve is a rate of change and not an absolute number.

Do those who caught it in hospital not count or something? Even so, we have numbers on that. In the week to Jan 16th, 116 cases were associated with hospital clusters, 737 with nursing home clusters, out of a total of 25,191 cases. Wont have much of an effect on the curve.

Why take out people with no symptoms? Do they not transmit the disease? If you have some data you should share as I am sure the world would like to know.

So no, the picture I posted is not false. Even in times where the testing criteria is different the slope of the curve gives a clear picture of the epidemiological situation at that time.

end of the road

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I said this a few weeks ago and I was laughed out the gate.

The traditional pub is finished in Ireland.

Weatherspoons or the likes is what the future of the pubs scene will be in Ireland

the traditional pub has been on the decline for years, plenty of pub closures long before covid and nobody cared or batted an eye lid, presumably because in truth the market was over-saturated.
covid will in all likely hasten what was always going to happen and a lot of young people have little interest, especially when there are better value alternatives available.
the traditional pub won't completely go away but people are going to have to come to terms with modernisation.

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I said this a few weeks ago and I was laughed out the gate.

The traditional pub is finished in Ireland.

Weatherspoons or the likes is what the future of the pubs scene will be in Ireland

can you imagine some pub owner drowning his sorrows in his own pub, the very pints he pulled served to him by someone else now in the employ of a vulture/cookoo fund or some non native of the avian variety..

Also this week leo proposed legislation to allow for people to work at home and for employers not to have much of a say in this regard, it's sold a protection of workers but what employer will have that, your wage will be tacitly eroded or reduced.

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, that's another bunch of complete nonsense.

The question was about the curve - which was flattened in the spring and will be flattened again, but the graph does clearly show the the slope on the curve was too steep in December, which caused a large part of the current mess. The curve is a rate of change and not an absolute number.

Do those who caught it in hospital not count or something? Even so, we have numbers on that. In the week to Jan 16th, 116 cases were associated with hospital clusters, 737 with nursing home clusters, out of a total of 25,191 cases. Wont have much of an effect on the curve.

Why take out people with no symptoms? Do they not transmit the disease? If you have some data you should share as I am sure the world would like to know.

So no, the picture I posted is not false. Even in times where the testing criteria is different the slope of the curve gives a clear picture of the epidemiological situation at that time.

That chart is not accurate. It is that simple.

We do not know accurately how many people in this country have been infected...for reasons I already explained just because you don't agree with those facts does not make my opinion "complete nonsense"

A healthy person is not a case, so why count a healthy person? We know the contract tracing system was a joke, and in my view pointless...we cannot chase this virus out of the country no matter how hard we try.

There is nothing the general public can do about people who caught it in hospital...no amount of handwashing, social distancing, restrictions is going to ease that, therefore including the number is also misleading.

We didn't flatten the curve by our actions, the curve was going to be flattened anyway...why else were numbers so low over the summer and yet so high in December....this virus is endemic in our population, and will be for a long time, lockdowns or no lockdowns, we've just been pedaled the idea that lockdowns work...some are buying it, some are not.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

I'd love to see "the science" behind this call!!!

The Government are flying a kite, gauging how can far they can belligerently push the hospitality sector into a corner. The VFI have been content to be a doormat thus far and allow destruction of livelihoods. June to a rational person without skin in the game is utter madness. This cynical stunt has been pulled before, "ah sure won't the plebs be grateful if we dangle early May in front of them instead". Government should be told in uncertain terms to F-off and reassess the situation from scratch before the end of February. Public pressure will start to tell and visions of the ballot box, they won't be long changing their tune.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

That chart is not accurate. It is that simple.

We do not know accurately how many people in this country have been infected...for reasons I already explained just because you don't agree with those facts does not make my opinion "complete nonsense"

A healthy person is not a case, so why count a healthy person? We know the contract tracing system was a joke, and in my view pointless...we cannot chase this virus out of the country no matter how hard we try.

There is nothing the general public can do about people who caught it in hospital...no amount of handwashing, social distancing, restrictions is going to ease that, therefore including the number is also misleading.

We didn't flatten the curve by our actions, the curve was going to be flattened anyway...why else were numbers so low over the summer and yet so high in December....this virus is endemic in our population, and will be for a long time, lockdowns or no lockdowns, we've just been pedaled the idea that lockdowns work...some are buying it, some are not.

You have taken a step away from reality there. Explain how the curve flattened naturally.

It was low in the summer because cases went down to single digits by June. This meant the change of encountering someone with the virus was very very low at the time. This started to grow in July. But because the levels in the community were low, this was slow, but steady. And remained at the same rate of growth until October apart from a little spike around the meat plants. A slow growth rate however will still cause a massive increase in cases at some point. October restriction bought this back again, however we decided we would go for a relatively normal Christmas and saw an explosion in cases.

You on the other hand are buying the nonsense that it was going to die down naturally in the summer anyway. Probably form the same people who were claiming herd immunity in April. What they cannot do is explain the US, explain Brazil, explain South Africa etc. etc. etc.

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

You have taken a step away from reality there. Explain how the curve flattened naturally.

It was low in the summer because cases went down to single digits by June. This meant the change of encountering someone with the virus was very very low at the time. This started to grow in July. But because the levels in the community were low, this was slow, but steady. And remained at the same rate of growth until October apart from a little spike around the meat plants. A slow growth rate however will still cause a massive increase in cases at some point. October restriction bought this back again, however we decided we would go for a relatively normal Christmas and saw an explosion in cases.

You on the other hand are buying the nonsense that it was going to die down naturally in the summer anyway. Probably form the same people who were claiming herd immunity in April. What they cannot do is explain the US, explain Brazil, explain South Africa etc. etc. etc.

How do we flatten the influenza virus every year, you know the virus that jams up our hospitals, filling our ICUs every winter?

The flu virus circulates all year round as well...but we don't chase those cases, covid is behaving the same way....it is the state of our collective immune systems that determine how this behaves, these kinds of viruses run rampant in winter time, just like the flu, which we get every year without fail, in two surges typically, that last about 6 weeks each.

And just because I made a comparison to the flu does not mean I say it has the same impact the flu has, clearly this virus is a nasty infection for some people...and for that reason some of the restrictions make sense.

The only steps I have taken is away from the media, because the government has used fear as a means of controlling us, people who have succumbed to fear have abandoned logic and reason.

y2k2020

Deleted User wrote: »

The Government are flying a kite, gauging how can far they can belligerently push the hospitality sector into a corner. The VFI have been content to be a doormat thus far and allow destruction of livelihoods. June to a rational person without skin in the game is utter madness. This cynical stunt has been pulled before, "ah sure won't the plebs be grateful if we dangle early May in front of them instead". Government should be told in uncertain terms to F-off and reassess the situation from scratch before the end of February. Public pressure will start to tell and visions of the ballot box, they won't be long changing their tune.

Think I'll be spending my weekends in the North soon

They have almost 10% of the country vaccinated as of today I believe, first dose anyway

At that pace they will have most of the population done by 1st April and will have restaurants, gastro pubs and everything opened up

While " no need for lockdown on 21/03/2020 Dr Tony, when country was ravaged with it " will have us at Level 5 still

y2k2020

Deleted User wrote: »

You have taken a step away from reality there. Explain how the curve flattened naturally.

It was low in the summer because cases went down to single digits by June. This meant the change of encountering someone with the virus was very very low at the time. This started to grow in July.

What are the odds this exact same thing happened in every European country regardless of restrictions?

Critical thinking is gone in this country

Mr. Karate

opinionated3 wrote: »

Think I'll seriously look at leaving the country if that happens.

We'll have to seriously look at leaving the Country because they'll irreversibly destroy the economy if they keep this up.

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

How do we flatten the influenza virus every year, you know the virus that jams up our hospitals, filling our ICUs every winter?

The flu virus circulates all year round as well...but we don't chase those cases, covid is behaving the same way....it is the state of our collective immune systems that determine how this behaves, these kinds of viruses run rampant in winter time, just like the flu, which we get every year without fail, in two surges typically, that last about 6 weeks each.

And just because I made a comparison to the flu does not mean I say it has the same impact the flu has, clearly this virus is a nasty infection for some people...and for that reason some of the restrictions make sense.

Why no fall of in the US? How is SA having a summer surge?

Our collective immune systems will eventually reduce this to a flu like scenario, or probably even less, however the surges we are currently seeing are consistent with a pandemic rather than endemic virus

Whatsisname

Silentcorner wrote: »

How do we flatten the influenza virus every year, you know the virus that jams up our hospitals, filling our ICUs every winter?

The flu virus circulates all year round as well...but we don't chase those cases, covid is behaving the same way....it is the state of our collective immune systems that determine how this behaves, these kinds of viruses run rampant in winter time, just like the flu, which we get every year without fail, in two surges typically, that last about 6 weeks each.

And just because I made a comparison to the flu does not mean I say it has the same impact the flu has, clearly this virus is a nasty infection for some people...and for that reason some of the restrictions make sense.

The only steps I have taken is away from the media, because the government has used fear as a means of controlling us, people who have succumbed to fear have abandoned logic and reason.

Just to add to your point, Patrick Vallance and Chris Witty in the UK have basically said the virus is seasonal as well.

y2k2020

Deleted User wrote: »

Why no fall of in the US? How is SA having a summer surge?

Our collective immune systems will eventually reduce this to a flu like scenario, or probably even less, however the surges we are currently seeing are consistent with a pandemic rather than endemic virus

US has about 10 different climates, big place

SA is a hell hole, no comparison to Europe

y2k2020

Whatsisname wrote: »

Just to add to your point, Patrick Vallance and Chris Witty in the UK have basically said the virus is seasonal as well.

Only a moron would think otherwise tbh

Dr Holohan said of the 208 people reported to have died from the disease so far this month, 23 cases have been linked to outbreaks in hospitals and 38 with outbreaks in nursing homes.

So 11% of the dead went to hospital and got it in an outbreak there, lovely!, and 18% got it from nursing homes, just like before back in April, lovely..

So of the 208 that died, nearly 30% had feck all to do with you an I but everything to do with lack of testing in hospital settings and care homes etc.
lets not forget, the deaths are this month, whilst we are all in lockdown, level 5.
Any I don't buy any anecdotes about Lag time and the likes.

in saying all that, the next week is crucial and schools are safe!