Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

froog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Tuned into Éamon Ryan speaking to Claire Byrne to determine if there was anything left upstairs. Answer is a conclusive no, imagine saying this with a straight face: "we were one of the first countries in the EU to shut down air travel". As falsehoods go this is utterly brazen, if you don't believe me have a listen back later. This is the sort of hopeless case we're dealing with, how he landed the transport ministry I'll never know. This sham of a patchwork government doesn't give a solitary damn about introducing quarantine/closing borders to more infectious variants. And it's not just cowardice about paying lip service to Britain or wilful ignorance, I'm beginning to believe they want to extend the restrictions as long as possible. I haven't protested in many years but would join a cause to depose this useless shower in the Dáil. We've been under the thumb long enough by total incompetents, life only rolls around once and a year kept under lock & key is criminal.

So you're just anti government really, be honest. Covid is just your latest thing to shriek about. The mask is slipping lads.

Russman

Deleted User wrote: »

Tuned into Éamon Ryan speaking to Claire Byrne to determine if there was anything left upstairs. Answer is a conclusive no, imagine saying this with a straight face: "we were one of the first countries in the EU to shut down air travel". As falsehoods go this is utterly brazen, if you don't believe me have a listen back later. This is the sort of hopeless case we're dealing with, how he landed the transport ministry I'll never know. This sham of a patchwork government doesn't give a solitary damn about introducing quarantine/closing borders to more infectious variants. And it's not just cowardice about paying lip service to Britain or wilful ignorance, I'm beginning to believe they want to extend the restrictions as long as possible. I haven't protested in many years but would join a cause to depose this useless shower in the Dáil. We've been under the thumb long enough by total incompetents, life only rolls around once and a year kept under lock & key is criminal.

I don't often agree with you BH, but you're right about Ryan in fairness. I suppose we're one of the first if you count being in the first 20

But, to get back to not agreeing with you , why would any government actually want to extend restrictions ? C'mon, it makes no sense at all, on any level. Governments depend on popularity to get re-elected, none in their right mind would willingly do what has been done, just for the craic.
I'm sick to the back teeth of the whole thing as much as the next person, but I can't see a realistic or workable alternative. If we were doing something materially different to the rest of the western world, then fair enough we could look to change tack, but pretty much all our peer countries are in the same boat. Not liking our available options doesn't mean there are better ones.

Global pandemics don't rock around too often and we're unlucky to be the generation dealing with this one, but hopefully it'll be shorter than historical ones and we'll see some light come the summer.

Idbatterim

Most support restrictions. Of course they do. Hundreds of thousands on the same salary doing far less work. Hundreds of thousands on pup better off than when they were working. Then the old and at risk of covid support this. Wow what a shocker! Any way, the whole fun and games starts soon enough with the financial carnage!

I mean I get it humans are lazy and short sighted in general. But many support restrictions for their ian selfish reasons, not because they give a toss about covid...

CalamariFritti

Deleted User wrote: »

I am sorry, but you fail to understand how sample size calculation works in experimental design. If the power of your experiment is setup to detect a 50% deifference, and you detect a lower than 50% difference you can only conclude that the difference is not greater than 50%. Which is exactly what they have done in the study report. If you look into the detail you will see that the statistical analysis on the results indicate the effect of wearing a mask was between a 46% reduction and a 23% increase. In other words, the study was under-powered to detect anything but a massive difference

I will try to understand what you are saying. I admit right now I dont. I see where you are heading with it, but I cant 100% say I am following. Fair enough, food for thought. Maybe you could help me?

Idbatterim

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-s-billionaires-saw-their-fortunes-rise-by-3-28bn-last-year-in-worrying-trend-1.4466699?mode=amp

Irish billionaires wealth up hugely last year...

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/double-dip-recession-in-europe-increasingly-inevitable-as-lockdowns-take-toll-1.4465296?mode=amp

Double dip recession also far more likely

FintanMcluskey

Russman wrote: »

I don't often agree with you BH, but you're right about Ryan in fairness. I suppose we're one of the first if you count being in the first 20

But, to get back to not agreeing with you , why would any government actually want to extend restrictions ? C'mon, it makes no sense at all, on any level. Governments depend on popularity to get re-elected, none in their right mind would willingly do what has been done, just for the craic.
I'm sick to the back teeth of the whole thing as much as the next person, but I can't see a realistic or workable alternative. If we were doing something materially different to the rest of the western world, then fair enough we could look to change tack, but pretty much all our peer countries are in the same boat. Not liking our available options doesn't mean there are better ones.

Global pandemics don't rock around too often and we're unlucky to be the generation dealing with this one, but hopefully it'll be shorter than historical ones and we'll see some light come the summer.

Ireland has had the longest strictest lockdown in the EU.

While still having comparable death rates to the worst hit nations, certainly up until November.

So Ireland isn’t really comparable to other countries, as it’s citizens have been suppressed twice as long as others

Loafing Oaf

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ireland has had the longest strictest lockdown in the EU.

While still having comparable death rates to the worst hit nations, certainly up until November.

So Ireland isn’t really comparable to other countries, as it’s citizens have been suppressed twice as long as others

You're forgetting our little respite in the run-up to Christmas...

froog

froog wrote: »

So you're just anti government really, be honest. Covid is just your latest thing to shriek about. The mask is slipping lads.

Deliberately twisting my words and moving the goalposts to suit your agenda, well done. Let me know if there are other strawmen you want to pull out of the drawer. You know exactly what I'm referring to but keep that head rooted, too many livelihoods have been sacrificed to protect a tiny minority. The government must be held to account for heavy-handed and clueless leadership, the public voted them in and are ultimately answerable to them.

Russman

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ireland has had the longest strictest lockdown in the EU.

While still having comparable death rates to the worst hit nations, certainly up until November.

So Ireland isn’t really comparable to other countries, as it’s citizens have been suppressed twice as long as others

And yet we're still amongst the worst.

Are you arguing that we should open up now or that we should have opened up a bit more last summer ?

Boggles

Hector Savage wrote: »

This was spreading globally by December 2019, thats smack bang in the middle of their summer, just because the western world reacted in March 2020 doesn't mean it started then - imagine the difference between this virus quietly spreading through a cold wintry europe and a warm NZ...

NZ confirmed their first case at the end of Feb, 2nd case In March.

They initiated their lock-down on the 25th of March.

None of that is height of summer as you claimed.

And as Florida proved in July, this virus will spread whatever the weather.

Kermit.de.frog

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

You're forgetting our little respite in the run-up to Christmas...

The only country in the northern hemisphere to loosen restrictions specifically for the run up to and over Christmas despite ample warnings this wasn't the most astute move to make - as we are now learning.

Hold on while the rest of Europe plays the world's smallest violin for us.

froog

Idbatterim wrote: »

Most support restrictions. Of course they do. Hundreds of thousands on the same salary doing far less work. Hundreds of thousands on pup better off than when they were working. Then the old and at risk of covid support this. Wow what a shocker! Any way, the whole fun and games starts soon enough with the financial carnage!

I mean I get it humans are lazy and short sighted in general. But many support restrictions for their ian selfish reasons, not because they give a toss about covid...

And you don't think anti-restrictions people hold their views for selfish reasons?

FintanMcluskey

Russman wrote: »

And yet we're still amongst the worst.

Are you arguing that we should open up now or that we should have opened up a bit more last summer ?

How is Europe’s youngest nation in such a mess now one has to ask?

Likely because unnecessary suppression last Summer I think.

Europe was back to normal for months as Dublin, Kildare and Offaly entered more unnecessary restrictions.

I have no doubt in my mind this Summer will be a repeat of last Summer

corcaigh07

Boggles wrote: »

NZ confirmed their first case at the end of Feb, 2nd case In March.

They initiated their lock-down on the 25th of March.

None of that is height of summer as you claimed.

And as Florida proved in July, this virus will spread whatever the weather.

How exactly do you explain the tiny case numbers in ROI Summer 2020, even during level 2? Evidence suggests it's a seasonal virus, similar to the flu.

Kermit.de.frog

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Europe was back to normal for months

This is not true yet you keep saying it.

FintanMcluskey

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The only country in the northern hemisphere to loosen restrictions specifically for the run up to and over Christmas despite ample warnings this wasn't the most astute move to make - as we are now learning.

Hold on while the rest of Europe plays the world's smallest violin for us.

That’s impressive gymnastics Kermit.

Europes most suppressed country “slightly” relaxed its mitigation measures to brings its restrictions in line with Europe for a few days.

Boggles

corcaigh07 wrote: »

How exactly do you explain the tiny case numbers in ROI Summer 2020,

You mean when we just came out of our actual lockdown and suppressed the virus in the community?

You need me to explain that?

corcaigh07 wrote: »

even during level 2? Evidence suggests it's a seasonal virus, similar to the flu.

15,000 cases a day in Florida in July suggests it's absolutely nothing like the flu.

FintanMcluskey

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This is not true yet you keep saying it.

It seems true according to this

Ireland’s first lockdown was by far the longest in Europe for bars, restaurants, cinemas and non-essential shops, according to a new report.

The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) health system policy tracker states that public spaces defined as parks, restaurants, bars, cinemas, non-essential shops and services were closed in Ireland for 120 days from March 12th.

The country with the next highest number of days where public spaces were shut was Finland (74 days) followed by Slovakia (66 days) and Bulgaria and Estonia (both 65 days).

Kermit.de.frog

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Europes most suppressed country “slightly” relaxed its mitigation measures to brings its restrictions in line with Europe for a few days.

Firstly you are incorrect. Curfews and far enhanced restrictions were being implemented right across the continent in the run up to Christmas. From Spain to France to the Netherlands to Germany to the Czech Republic etc - all bringing in enhanced measures.

We decided to go the opposite way.

However, since you seem to believe what you say - how has it worked out for us then?

Do you think it's worked out well?

Russman

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

How is Europe’s youngest nation in such a mess now one has to ask?

Likely because unnecessary suppression last Summer I think.

Europe was back to normal for months as Dublin, Kildare and Offaly entered more unnecessary restrictions.

I have no doubt in my mind this Summer will be a repeat of last Summer

There probably was an element of pent up demand alright, but I'd have no doubt that no matter what restrictions were in place or not in place prior to it, once the leash was off for Christmas people would have gone bananas no matter what, its just what we do in December.

Kermit.de.frog

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It seems true according to this

Again you are unable to keep up with the statements you make.

You said Europe was "back to normal".

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Europe was back to normal for months as Dublin, Kildare and Offaly entered more unnecessary restrictions.

I have no doubt in my mind this Summer will be a repeat of last Summer

That is not true. That is misinformation meant to give people here the impression that it is only Ireland implementing measures over the summer.

There have been restrictions right across Europe to varying levels consistently from travel to services. Some lighter and some heavier at various times depending on the situation in each specific country.

That is just a fact.

SafeSurfer

froog wrote: »

And you don't think anti-restrictions people hold their views for selfish reasons?

Yeah those selfish b@stards trying to save their livelihoods and keep the roof over their heads.

corcaigh07

Boggles wrote: »

You mean when we just came out of our actual lockdown and suppressed the virus in the community?

You need me to explain that?



15,000 cases a day in Florida in July suggests it's absolutely nothing like the flu.

Go ahead, explain it. You said we opened up over the summer in previous posts, how come it took until October for our next lockdown? Starts to get a bit colder in October, doesn't it?

Windmill100000

froog wrote: »

Most people support restrictions. Your mass protest fantasy is just that, a fantasy.

If you read my post you'd see I said it was unlikely people will take to the streets here. Moreso when we are back in level 3.

Tenzor07

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Firstly you are incorrect. Curfews and far enhanced restrictions were being implemented right across the continent in the run up to Christmas. From Spain to France to the Netherlands to Germany to the Czech Republic etc - all bringing in enhanced measures.
We decided to go the opposite way.

Not sure I'd classify the pre-Christmas 2 weeks of Level 3 lockdown as "going the opposite way"...
In Spain for instance it was possible to go out for Dinner, drinks, shopping, Gyms,etc. etc.. In November whereas in Ireland it was 15 people outdoors/takeaway only food, museums moved online etc.. There was a nighttime curfew in place depending on region but at least it wasn't a complete shutdown like here..

Windmill100000

Windmill100000 wrote: »

If you read my post you'd see I said it was unlikely people will take to the streets here. Moreso when we are back in level 3.

Despite being sceptical of the effectiveness of lockdowns, I think it would be a supremely bad idea to just lift all restrictions at once. It'd cause a Christmas-type spate of gatherings and visits, which is not ideal at all with more transmissible variants now in the country. Stepping down levels gradually is the way to go I think.

Russman

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Yeah those selfish b@stards trying to save their livelihoods and keep the roof over their heads.

As opposed to those other selfish ba$tards trying to stay healthy and keep their parents safe ?

Ultimately everyone's selfish. John doesn't give a f--k if Joe loses his job and it keeps his mother safe, and Joe doesn't give a f--k if John's mother dies once he keeps his job.

froog

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Yeah those selfish b@stards trying to save their livelihoods and keep the roof over their heads.

And those selfish b@stards who dont want loved ones to die.

See what i did there?

Windmill100000

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Again you are unable to keep up with the statements you make.

You said Europe was "back to normal".



That is not true. That is misinformation meant to give people here the impression that it is only Ireland implementing measures over the summer.

There have been restrictions right across Europe to varying levels consistently from travel to services. Some lighter and some heavier at various times depending on the situation in each specific country.

That is just a fact.

People looking to find out what's happening in the would be looking beyond this thread. This thread is unlikely to be anyone's primary news source, so I wouldn't be too concerned on that front.

Boggles

corcaigh07 wrote: »

Go ahead, explain it. You said we opened up over the summer in previous posts, how come it took until October for our next lockdown? Starts to get a bit colder in October, doesn't it?

Restrictions = Instance rate goes down

Less Restrictions = Instance rate goes up.

November is colder again isn't it?

How many examples in this country do you need before you realize that?