Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

pgj2015

Happydays2020 wrote: »

I wandered into a place in Dublin a few years back. They told me it would be a few mins before someone was available, offered me a beer or a coffee. Cut my hair and then charged me 40 euro. Was handed a fancy hot towel at the end.

Following lockdown I spent EUr150 on a higher end hair clippers last April (everything cheaper was sold out). Works great and cut my hair every three weeks. I doubt I will go back to a barbers again - can do a better job than many of them and I don’t have to listen to the crap.

I spent 10 euro on a clippers years ago. it did one haircut and broke. the one I have now was about 50 euro 15 years ago, remington, still going strong. I prefer a proper barber haircut though, I get a fade. Also I like the chat with the barber, I find the whole experience relaxing.

Windmill100000

Windmill100000 wrote: »

"The ICU provides care for patients who are critically ill and require life-saving support. This includes people suffering from major trauma, heart failure, serious burns, COVID-19 and many other conditions. An ICU is home to specialized equipment and highly trained doctors, nurses and other critical care staff who can handle acute illness."


So when we have these units at capacity across the country it is a very serious problem. These people can't be treated on trolleys on general wards.

It is a big deal and it's why we are remaining in lockdown.

But it’s not because Covid is deadly.

It’s because our capacity is pathetic despite the billions invested annually.

ypres5

Windmill100000 wrote: »

So even more reason to remain in lockdown.

even more reason to ask where the hse budget is being spent all these years? it gets NASA level funding and we get Ryanair standard return for it

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

It's those that want to open everything in this thread that are taking the stance that they are the only ones that think there's a hefty bill coming. It's nonsense of course.

Who want’s everything open

Total nonsense

Windmill100000

Deleted User wrote: »

Windmill said Covid was not mild as ICU was full.

But what does that actually mean? What it means is even at peak we had just over 200 or something in ICU out of thousands of cases.

Hardly deadly

It is deadly, just not predominantly in the age groups that you think matter.

It has been explained to you many times that when ICU is at capacity with covid patients there is nowhere for anyone else to go that needs critical care beds, be they covid positive or any other illness.

Covid has overwhelmed the ICU service. It is very serious to not have beds available there.

We will remain in lockdown until they reduce substantially. I know that is not what you want to happen, but that is how it will go.

Windmill100000

ypres5 wrote: »

even more reason to ask where the hse budget is being spent all these years? it gets NASA level funding and we get Ryanair standard return for it

I agree with you. We should have more critical care beds and I hope that is something that is addressed asap.

Windmill100000

Deleted User wrote: »

But it’s not because Covid is deadly.

It’s because our capacity is pathetic despite the billions invested annually.

So if I told you France, Italy and Germany were also struggling with ICU capacity.....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/coronavirus-digest-germany-icu-capacity-at-critical-level/a-55912261

ypres5

Windmill100000 wrote: »

I agree with you. We should have more critical care beds and I hope that is something that is addressed asap.

you're right something should be done urgently but urgent isn't a word that seems to be in the hses vocabulary. look at the cervical scandal as an example. no one seems to have suffered any damage to their careers, no ones been stripped of their position or their pension. it sums the whole farce up

Windmill100000

ypres5 wrote: »

you're right something should be done urgently but urgent isn't a word that seems to be in the hses vocabulary. look at the cervical scandal as an example. no one seems to have suffered any damage to their careers, no ones been stripped of their position or their pension. it sums the whole farce up

Again I agree. And it's abysmal that we had to experience this situation to really highlight the failings.

I was looking up a list of countries with similar number of ICU beds per 100,000 people. Sweden was on par with us and the UK fared only slightly better, which was surprising to me at least.

ypres5

Windmill100000 wrote: »

Again I agree. And it's abysmal that we had to experience this situation to really highlight the failings.

I was looking up a list of countries with similar number of ICU beds per 100,000 people. Sweden was on par with us and the UK fared only slightly better, which was surprising to me at least.

i was shocked to see sweden was so low in icu the netherlands and finland too

Windmill100000

This is a good link comparing 2011 and 2020

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/intensive-care-beds-per-100000?tab=table

Natterjack from Kerry

ypres5 wrote: »

even more reason to ask where the hse budget is being spent all these years?

It is spent accoding to the wishes of those who pay for it - the inefficiency coming from small town hospitals, which while providing an illusion of a healthcare service, and providing local jobs to people who elect representatives who 'fight' to keep them there, is a waste from an efficiency perspective.

Good progress was made during the 2008 crash, but the closure of at least another 30 hospitals would be required to provide a good quality health service and good value for money. Unfortunately for those who would prefer the HSE to focus exclusively on providing health care, the majority disagrees, and prefers a part healthcare, part provider of cost ineffective jobs for it.

normanoffside

Windmill100000 wrote: »

So even more reason to remain in lockdown.

The Money would have been better spent increasing capacity. It could even be seen as investment rather than squandering cash.

Multipass

Windmill100000 wrote: »

Again I agree. And it's abysmal that we had to experience this situation to really highlight the failings.

I was looking up a list of countries with similar number of ICU beds per 100,000 people. Sweden was on par with us and the UK fared only slightly better, which was surprising to me at least.

The failings have been well known for a long time, just that no-one had invented lockdown yet. This was 2016

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/up-to-350-patients-dying-due-to-lack-of-icu-capacity-1.2813546

Up to 350 patients are dying each year as a result of capacity constraints in intensive care units, the annual conference of the Irish Hospital Consultants Association has been told.

Geuze

Windmill100000 wrote: »

I agree with you. We should have more critical care beds and I hope that is something that is addressed asap.

Pre-COVID = 225 beds

Sep 2020 = 280

Jan 2021 = 287 public ICU beds

Surge capacity = 350, with reasonable standard care

Geuze

ypres5 wrote: »

even more reason to ask where the hse budget is being spent all these years? it gets NASA level funding and we get Ryanair standard return for it

Too many hosps = 50-54, too much duplication, but no political will to change that

Drugs bill too high, this is linked to MNC presence, don't negotiate too hard on prices, for fear of losing

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/drug-companies-lobbied-kenny-1.753873


The price levels are very high in healthcare:

• a French GP charges 25 (2019)
• UK GP is paid GBP 12.58 for vaccinations, we pay double that

Too many staff - when the eight Health Boards were merged into the HSE in 2005, Bertie Ahern did a deal with the unions - no jobs lost

FintanMcluskey

Geuze wrote: »

The price levels are very high in healthcare:

• a French GP charges 25 (2019)
• UK GP is paid GBP 12.58 for vaccinations, we pay double that

5 times higher than the UK for administering the vaccine

In total, GPs and pharmacists would be paid €60 per patient under this vaccination plan. GPs working in mass vaccination centres will be paid €120 per hour.

The government says deal with GPs and pharmacists will be seen as “good value for money” despite UK GPs getting paid £12 per jab administered.

Geuze

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

5 times higher than the UK for administering the vaccine

UK = 12.58 GBP or 14 euro per dose

UK = 28 euro for two doses

Irl = 25 dose + 25 dose + 10 admin = 60 euro

FintanMcluskey

Geuze wrote: »

UK = 12.58 GBP or 14 euro per dose

UK = 28 euro for two doses

Irl = 25 dose + 25 dose + 10 admin = 60 euro

Ok I hadn’t understood the costing so

About twice the price

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Who want’s everything open

Total nonsense

So what do you want open now?

suicide_circus

Geuze wrote: »

UK = 12.58 GBP or 14 euro per dose

UK = 28 euro for two doses

Irl = 25 dose + 25 dose + 10 admin = 60 euro

This will surprise no one, given that doing almost anything in this country is extortionate but has anyone from officialdom spoken out and explained why the above is the case?

pjohnson

normanoffside wrote: »

The Money would have been better spent increasing capacity. It could even be seen as investment rather than squandering cash.

Well if people weren't championing fraudsters and congratulating them for their fraud it'd be somewhat easier to believe them when it comes to concerns about squandered cash.

Captain_Crash

Penfailed wrote: »

It's also been said all along that the 'E' in NPHET stands for 'Emergency'. Currently, that emergency is Covid.

If only covid is to be considered, why is the below is a member of NPHET?

“Kate O’Flaherty, head of health and wellbeing at Department of Health”

They even lied the government sub committee and said they had discussed mental health, only for the minutes to prove otherwise! Fact is they were supposed to look at mental health but it wasn’t discussed until October. So what was she in particular doing for the 9 months prior?!?

walus

Deleted User wrote: »

I am.
ICU in Ireland is not hard to fill. We have terrible capacity

Indeed, and thankfully someone finally arrived at how to solve it - lockdown. That is just brilliant. The lack of vision in this country is just frightening to say the least.

The lengths that people go here to justify lockdowns to themselves and others is staggering. It truly is.

Boggles

walus wrote: »

Indeed, and thankfully someone finally arrived at how to solve it - lockdown. That is just brilliant. The lack of vision in this country is just frightening to say the least.

The lengths that people go here to justify lockdowns to themselves and others is staggering. It truly is.

Germany have 6-8 times our ICU capacity, are they fully open at the moment?

Graham

walus wrote: »

Indeed, and thankfully someone finally arrived at how to solve it - lockdown. That is just brilliant. The lack of vision in this country is just frightening to say the least.

The lengths that people go here to justify lockdowns to themselves and others is staggering. It truly is.

It makes more sense to try and reduce the number of people that actually need critical hospital care.

In the same way the solution to increased deaths isn't to dig more graves.

SnuggyBear

Not sure why people defend or justify low ICU capacity with all the money spent on the health service. Its like they come on here just to argue with people. If the government announced that husbands should not kiss their wives to stop the spread people would be on here defending it.

Boggles

SnuggyBear wrote: »

Not sure why people defend or justify low ICU capacity with all the money spent on the health service.

Who did that?

Windmill100000

walus wrote: »

Indeed, and thankfully someone finally arrived at how to solve it - lockdown. That is just brilliant. The lack of vision in this country is just frightening to say the least.

The lengths that people go here to justify lockdowns to themselves and others is staggering. It truly is.

Staggering is the belief some have that lockdowns don't help suppress numbers or that when we are hitting thousands of cases a day and have tbe highest case rate in Europe that we should just ignore the potential that has to kill people and keep everything open. Staggering.

Graham

SnuggyBear wrote: »

If the government announced that husbands should not kiss their wives to stop the spread people would be on here defending it.

I'll take examples of a straw man for $500 please Alex.