Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VIII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Ginger n Lemon

Can I ask - what are the proposals to get cases down to 10 - 50 a day?

What else can we close?

:rolleyes:

Arghus

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

We have locked down since Christmas and still there are 79 deaths?

We need to admit defeat and open up and get back to normal.

We simply can't save the old and the sick without destroying our economy businesses jobs and the futures and freedoms of our young people.

If we collapse the economy then society will collapse and we will have civil war.

Anyone who still believes in lockdowns masks social distancing etc has lost the plot.

This insanity must end NOW

We're seeing deaths now because there's a lag between the surge in infections after we opened up and the time people die after their initial infection. Eventually the declining rates of infections will filter through to declining death rates.

Those deaths recorded today are a consequence of the surge in cases after lockdown was lifted, not as a result of lockdown.

I can't believe this has to still be explained after nearly a year of this.

hynesie08

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

One must wonder, how after 4 weeks of below closed, we still have 1,400 + new daily cases?

Schools
Barbers
Restaurants
Cinemas

Concerts
Football stadiums
Book shops (for my friend Beni)
Gyms
Swimming pools
Golf clubs
Pubs

list goes on.

I know right. If these things were opened we would be having 20,000 + daily cases :rolleyes:

Which part are you having trouble with, how do you get from 8000 to 0 without hitting the numbers in between?

If things were open and numbers were going up, then we closed things and numbers are going down then yes keeping them open would see bigger numbers.

Do you understand how numbers work?

froog

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Can I ask - what are the proposals to get cases down to 10 - 50 a day?

What else can we close?

:rolleyes:

the current restrictions are doing the job. here's that graph again that you ignored for some reason.

Silentcorner

Deleted User wrote: »

!!!!!! I win the argument through exclamation marks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You miss the point completely on excess deaths. 12.5% increase on the 5 year average in Europe with mass restrictions does not mean restrictions don’t work. You do understand that?

I'm still laughing at you and your "Established Science"....this debacle isn't even a year old...severe lockdowns have never been done before...the virus will be around for years to come, it will be years before we get any proper scientific or reliable data.

Ha ha haaaa...you are gas!!!

I said excess deaths do not indicate whether severe lockdowns work...there is a difference between severe lockdowns and restrictions, I don't have a problem with restrictions!

Russman

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

We can't destroy our country our economy our society our future and condemn another generation of young people to unemployment poverty and utter despair.

The fact is several posters on this thread do not want to go back to normal.

Do you honestly think if there was a better way, nobody would have tried it by now ?

Seriously, what do you think would happen to our hospital system if we went back to normal tomorrow or next week ? Given there are almost no elective procedures taking place and we’ve almost maxed out our surge capacity ?

I really doubt there are people who enjoy this, everybody wants to go back to normal but plenty think it’s too soon right now.

SCOOP 64

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Can I ask - what are the proposals to get cases down to 10 - 50 a day?

What else can we close?

:rolleyes:

i know you can walk down the main street and see most shops closed, but in industrial estates/small business parks around the country plenty still open including where i work under the guise of construction, we are nothing to do with building houses.

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Can I ask - what are the proposals to get cases down to 10 - 50 a day?

What else can we close?

:rolleyes:

Hold off on testing close contacts. Test less
Manipulate the data to try show lockdown is working...

end of the road

Deleted User wrote: »

Hahaha, you are literally just making numbers up!!!

And those 3 links... they all mention “estimates” based on “modelling”.

Is this the same kind of modelling that the experts used early on to suggest bodies piling up on the streets? Or that prompted Leo to say that 250K Irish could die?

You’ll have to try harder than that.

50 million deaths.
you really cannot accuse others of making up numbers, especially when they haven't and you are known for doing it.

Deleted User wrote: »

And yet you have no evidence other than a “feeling”.

Horrible for all those whose lives have been destroyed because we “believe” lockdown saves lives.

we have plenty of evidence, as you will know given you are in the thread a huge amount.
we know that when there is no control or minimal control of the virus cases and deaths rise.

Deleted User wrote: »

I’ve never actually said that lockdowns don’t save any lives, you made that up, which you are good at.

But I don’t think they saved many lives at all. Have a good look at Sweden. No lockdown and an elderly population. They don’t have a huge number of deaths. Even less excess deaths.

Proof that not locking down doesn’t lead to hospitals getting overwhelmed and bodies piling up on the streets.

And if it doesn’t save many lives, than why do we have half a million unemployed and every school in the country closed.

Over to you. Actual proof that lockdown saved millions of lives. Oh yeah... you don’t have it.

lock downs don't save lives are one of the main arguments of yours throughout the thread.
sweden had a serious amount of deaths, in fact the country at one stage had it's deaths go unreported by the main reporters because they were out of control.
so not proof for your claim that not locking down won't overwhelm hospitals, because we do know sweden flew patients to other countries for treatment as it's hospital system became overwhelmed and nobody mentioned bodies piling up on the streets apart from you.
we have half a million unemployed because there is currently no demand for the services they work in, because of us needing to control the spread of the virus and the services are non-essential to the running of the country.
schools are also closed currently because the case numbers and hospital numbers are still high and we need to control the spread.

Responder XY

froog wrote: »

Is there a pattern on dips on Monday/Tuesday. Seeing quite a linear graph there going back to early january, but a dip every monday/tuesday. Quite strange, maybe less testing at weekends and weekend testing only reported two days late? was under the impression reporting was in real time though?

Arghus

Deleted User wrote: »

Hold off on testing close contacts. Test less
Manipulate the data to try show lockdown is working...

The positivity rate for completed tests is declining, that's definite proof that the virus is declining.

froog

Responder XY wrote: »

Is there a pattern on dips on Monday/Tuesday. Seeing quite a linear graph there going back to early january, but a dip every monday/tuesday. Quite strange, maybe less testing at weekends and weekend testing only reported two days late? was under the impression reporting was in real time though?

it's the weekend affect. people will wait until monday to contact GP, get tested that day or next and get results wednesday so wednesday is always a peak.

PTH2009

Its not about the covid numbers anymore its about getting the hospital numbers down

More goal post moving

froog

interesting how people completely ignore hard evidence that the current lockdown is working. actual test results like. not even the much maligned models.

Seweryn

Lundstram wrote: »

Sure the flu never killed anyone because it's not recorded as a flu death if someone dies with it.

Can't say the same about Covid19.

They're different alright.

True.

Then knowing that flu can kill over 600k people in a season globally, imagine what would the number be for flu if the deaths were recorded the same way as for Cov. (died with...).

Responder XY

PTH2009 wrote: »

Its not about the covid numbers anymore its about getting the hospital numbers down

More goal post moving

It's always been about hospital numbers, although they are of course linked (with a lag) to total numbers.

Of course the fascination in the media has always been the overall numbers which isn't right. We should also be focused on how we can increase the capacity in the system!

hynesie08

PTH2009 wrote: »

Its not about the covid numbers anymore its about getting the hospital numbers down

More goal post moving

Yeah!! They should have come out day 1 and said the goal was not to overwhelm the hospitals........

Yknow like they did.

Arghus

Responder XY wrote: »

Is there a pattern on dips on Monday/Tuesday. Seeing quite a linear graph there going back to early january, but a dip every monday/tuesday. Quite strange, maybe less testing at weekends and weekend testing only reported two days late? was under the impression reporting was in real time though?

There's a dip on Mondays and Tuesdays alright, followed by a bump around the Wednesday of the week.

It’s probably to do with people holding off requesting a test over the weekend and then a bump in referrals on Monday as GP's open, people get tested on Monday and Tuesday - but then those cases aren't recorded until Wednesday.

Samsonsmasher

Russman wrote: »

Do you honestly think if there was a better way, nobody would have tried it by now ?

Seriously, what do you think would happen to our hospital system if we went back to normal tomorrow or next week ? Given there are almost no elective procedures taking place and we’ve almost maxed out our surge capacity ?

I really doubt there are people who enjoy this, everybody wants to go back to normal but plenty think it’s too soon right now.

Too soon means never.

Regardless we simply don't have the time.

Our economy our society our young people and our future are more important.

Lockdown has failed masks do not work social distancing does not work and the virus roll out is too slow and is never going to stop all deaths and cases.

We all know this.

We need to open up and get back to normal.

Arghus

Christ alive.

It’s degenerated into this nonsense again: masks don't work, the flu is worse.

Kunta Kinte

Lundstram wrote: »

Getting a haircut at 8 from young apprentice barber up the road. I can't wait.

And no, I won't feel an ounce of guilt. Chap will get €20 for his troubles.

Hope no one dies.

Any chance later of a auld photo or two of this wonderful haircut you will be getting? Although we know how reluctant you are to provide links or evidence of your claims when challenged on them.

Lundstram

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

Any chance later of a auld photo or two of this wonderful haircut you will be getting? Although we know how reluctant you are to provide links or evidence of your claims when challenged on them.

No problem, Kunta. Just for you. :cool:

Graham

PTH2009 wrote: »

Its not about the covid numbers anymore its about getting the hospital numbers down

More goal post moving

You think there might be a connection between the covid number and the hospital numbers somehow?

FintanMcluskey

froog wrote: »

the current restrictions are doing the job. here's that graph again that you ignored for some reason.

Still doesn’t prove non essential closing has had any effect.

Or stay at home orders

People don’t socialise as much in January

The cases numbers likely would have decayed naturally

Russman

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Too soon means never.

Regardless we simply don't have the time.

Our economy our society our young people and our future are more important.

Lockdown has failed masks do not work social distancing does not work and the virus roll out is too slow and is never going to stop all deaths and cases.

We all know this.

We need to open up and get back to normal.

So, no answers about the hospital system then ?

How does one go back to normal without a functioning health service ?
How do our young people that you’re so concerned about get educated if half the teachers are out sick ?
How do our companies function with blocs of staff out sick ?

Unfortunately it’s not possible to wish this away.

Silentcorner

Russman wrote: »

So, no answers about the hospital system then ?

How does one go back to normal without a functioning health service ?
How do our young people that you’re so concerned about get educated if half the teachers are out sick ?
How do our companies function with blocs of staff out sick ?

Unfortunately it’s not possible to wish this away.

And yet, super market workers, the people who have been on a front line since the start of this thing, aren't getting sick! Go figure!

Ginger n Lemon

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Lol I see that cases and deaths do not recognize level 5.

Perhaps mandatory masks indoors for all?

Should we go to some sort of 7 pm to 7 am curfew also and pray cases come down? :rolleyes:

Almost a year in and you still can’t follow data? 80% case drop since peak and 40% week on week yet cases don’t recognise level 5? And deaths today are a function of what was happening a few weeks ago?

Polar101

PTH2009 wrote: »

Its not about the covid numbers anymore its about getting the hospital numbers down

More goal post moving

Fewer cases will eventually lead to fewer people in hospital. So the goal is still there, innit?

Qwertyminger

Silentcorner wrote: »

And yet, super market workers, the people who have been on a front line since the start of this thing, aren't getting sick! Go figure!

Five of the people I personally know who tested positive work in retail settings. 3 in December and January.

Samsonsmasher

Russman wrote: »

So, no answers about the hospital system then ?

How does one go back to normal without a functioning health service ?
How do our young people that you’re so concerned about get educated if half the teachers are out sick ?
How do our companies function with blocs of staff out sick ?

Unfortunately it’s not possible to wish this away.

Out sick? The majority of people have no symptoms and the majority of those who do have symptoms simply have flu symptoms and get better same as every other flu season.

Sadly for some it means death and they are old and sick already.

We have to accept reality accept a higher mortality rate going forward and get back to normal.

Condemning young fit and healthy people in the prime of their life to house imprisonment destroying their chance to get an education work make money socialise have romantic relationships and enjoy their youth is utter insanity.

A whole generation is going to be lost to unemployment poverty homelessness depression alcohol drugs crime and suicide.