Ireland is a pretend football country

Iscreamkone

chrissb8 wrote: »

This is why I stopped playing 11 a side in Ireland anyway.

People screaming at you when you get the ball and everything panicked/rushed, hoof the ball upfield as quickly as you can. Invariably lose the ball, then opposition goes on the attack, "WHY IS THERE NO DEFENCE LADS"....because instead of keeping the ball and getting a breather we're wasting energy and effort on stupid losses of possession continuously.

And that starts from underage right up to senior level. I've always maintained I would much rather lose a game of football trying to play the game than the above, which generally produces the same result anyway.

I disagree. At the moment all I see in underage academies is pass, pass, pass. They are trying to turn everyone into a David Silva. Very nice, but that won't suit every child, and a lot will become frustrated at being continually asked to be highly technical players when they may be more of a Richard Dunne themselves.

partyguinness

chrissb8 wrote: »

This is why I stopped playing 11 a side in Ireland anyway.

People screaming at you when you get the ball and everything panicked/rushed, hoof the ball upfield as quickly as you can. Invariably lose the ball, then opposition goes on the attack, "WHY IS THERE NO DEFENCE LADS"....because instead of keeping the ball and getting a breather we're wasting energy and effort on stupid losses of possession continuously.

And that starts from underage right up to senior level. I've always maintained I would much rather lose a game of football trying to play the game than the above, which generally produces the same result anyway.

It is a cultural thing. It's like why I gave up playing GAA football. It was just too focused on the physical side of it.

Lads spent more time in the gym bulking up rather than playing with the actual ball. More obsessed with stopping the opposition than what we would do to win.

Having said that, I played for my NUI university for 3 years (soccer) in the local leagues. We played possession football. We played and passed teams off the pitch but we always lost. Invariably the muckers hoofing the play down pitch and just played like Wimbledon and won the day.

Edgware

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Does JP McManus not throw a few bob at the soccer in Limerick?

I know he lashes the spends on the Hurlers and he helped with donations for both Thomond Park and the Gaelic grounds. He has a reputation for not paying taxes but he does support sports and other interests privately.

JP McManus did support the redevelopment of the Markets Field. Then the amateurs of the F.A.I. and Limerick soccer took over. The usual **** up then occurred.

trashcan

weldoninhio wrote: »

Anthony Stokes MkII

That would be a shame. Let’s hope not.

Did you smash it

trashcan wrote: »

That would be a shame. Let’s hope not.

Writing off a player at 18.

Irish fans are either building decent talents into world beaters or writing off lads prematurely

trashcan

Did you smash it wrote: »

Writing off a player at 18.

Irish fans are either building decent talents into world beaters or writing off lads prematurely

Didn’t say I agreed. I don’t know enough about the lad to say either way. I was just saying I hope it’s not the case.

cms88

Does anyne have alink to the Monaghan United Rod Squad program? Would make for interesting viewing

Greyfox

Iscreamkone wrote: »

Very nice, but that won't suit every child, and a lot will become frustrated at being continually asked to be highly technical players when they may be more of a Richard Dunne themselves.

Were not asking them to be technical, were asking them to pass the ball to the chap a few yards away from you rather than hoofing the ball up the field in hope. Simple pass and move somewhere else, its not rocket science and yet almost nobody does this in Ireland.

trashcan

Greyfox wrote: »

Were not asking them to be technical, were asking them to pass the ball to the chap a few yards away from you rather than hoofing the ball up the field in hope. Simple pass and move somewhere else, its not rocket science and yet almost nobody does this in Ireland.

I find it bizarre that anyone coaching kids wouldn’t be trying to teach them to be technically good. Can you imagine any other sport where that would be the case. Imagine a tennis player being told “ah don’t bother trying to strike the ball properly, just whack it any old way over the net.”

twowheelsonly

Greyfox wrote: »

Were not asking them to be technical, were asking them to pass the ball to the chap a few yards away from you rather than hoofing the ball up the field in hope. Simple pass and move somewhere else, its not rocket science and yet almost nobody does this in Ireland.

I don't know where you're watching your football but I'd have to strongly disagree. I watch a lot of underage football around Cork and these guys are light years ahead of what we were at the same age in terms of coaching, fitness and in most cases facilities available to them.
My own local club is all about coaching and training with the ball. Even at the Academy stage (U6 to U11) they're playing ball all the time. If there's 20 young fellas out there will normally be either 10 or 20 footballs going for most of their sessions. Most of the coaches either have qualifications or are in the process of getting them. Likewise with a multitude of local clubs.
To be honest I can't remember the last time I saw any coach teaching fellas to hoof the ball...

chrissb8

Greyfox wrote: »

Were not asking them to be technical, were asking them to pass the ball to the chap a few yards away from you rather than hoofing the ball up the field in hope. Simple pass and move somewhere else, its not rocket science and yet almost nobody does this in Ireland.

Exactly, just a bare minimum of having a decent touch and being able to lay it off confidently to a person beside you or in space. No one is asking for technical wizards.

This panicked approach, for me, goes from the set up at underage right up to the Irish national side. We have warped perceptions of what constitutes effort in football in Ireland.

Take James Mc Clean as an example, running like a donkey but give him the ball and he punts it 10 yards ahead, loses it and the tracking back begins again. And people go mad saying he gives 100% for the cause. That is not 100% that is just being counterproductive.

You need to play good football, all over the pitch to win and on a very basic level stringing passes together whatever your ability goes a long way to help that.

doublejobbing 2

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

I'm really starting to believe Parrott may be finished at top level already, probably part due to the company he keeps.

I had a read of a Millwall fans forum. The reviews aren't good to put it mildly.

Is he this decade's Anthony Stokes? Shame.

Brian?

Shakey_jake wrote: »

Not to get too off topic but if any organisation deserves to have a permanent stadium built its cricket ireland

Yes cricket something we are relatively decent at and would be on par with soccer in terms of global interest.

Ill also add that its ran extremely well compared to the fai

Cricket is nowhere near as popular in Ireland as football, and has absolutely nowhere near the same global appeal.

How many test cricket nations are there? 2 in Africa, 3 in Asia, 2 in Europe and 2 in Oceania?

Fr Tod Umptious

cms88 wrote: »

Does anyne have alink to the Monaghan United Rod Squad program? Would make for interesting viewing

The Rod Squad programme I remember was about his time in Carlisle United around 2003

I don't recall any documentary about his time at Monaghan Utd.

cms88

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The Rod Squad programme I remember was about his time in Carlisle United around 2003

I don't recall any documentary about his time at Monaghan Utd.

There was one about Monaghan i think it was on Setanta

doublejobbing 2

Deleted User wrote: »

Is he this decade's Anthony Stokes? Shame.

It's a long time ago but I don't think there was ever as much hope placed in Stokes as there has been Parrott. Not to mention the added burden seeing as the rise of Parrott coincides with a period in our history when our most prolific recent goalscorer is a currently out of form defender in the worst Celtic squad in 25 years.

He was in good form for Celtic and probably would have had a decent Ireland career only Trap thought he gave him the runaround.

partyguinness

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

It's a long time ago but I don't think there was ever as much hope placed in Stokes as there has been Parrott. Not to mention the added burden seeing as the rise of Parrott coincides with a period in our history when our most prolific recent goalscorer is a currently out of form defender in the worst Celtic squad in 25 years.

He was in good form for Celtic and probably would have had a decent Ireland career only Trap thought he gave him the runaround.

https://socceronsunday.com/article/republic-of-ireland-to-be-unaffected-by-covid-goal-celebration-rules/

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The Rod Squad programme I remember was about his time in Carlisle United around 2003

I don't recall any documentary about his time at Monaghan Utd.

There was one which showed him having to set up pitch side lighting in the Phoenix Park (iirc, bizarre) to train his squad, pretty sure it was after his time in Carlisle. Just remember thinking "how does a LOI of Ireland side not have (access to) a floodlight training area"..., something to still ponder really, tbh.

cms88

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

It's a long time ago but I don't think there was ever as much hope placed in Stokes as there has been Parrott. Not to mention the added burden seeing as the rise of Parrott coincides with a period in our history when our most prolific recent goalscorer is a currently out of form defender in the worst Celtic squad in 25 years.

He was in good form for Celtic and probably would have had a decent Ireland career only Trap thought he gave him the runaround.

The difference was when Stokes was in his early 20s Robbie Keane was still around and there didn't seem to be an issue.

I know in recent years he's moved a lot etc but when he was with Celtic he was worth a look.

LuasSimon

cms88 wrote: »

The difference was when Stokes was in his early 20s Robbie Keane was still around and there didn't seem to be an issue.

I know in recent years he's moved a lot etc but when he was with Celtic he was worth a look.

Anthony Stokes performance in Hibs cup final win over Rangers in front of a packed Hampden in 2016 will be remembered forever in the green part of Edinburgh, Roy of the Rovers stuff.

trashcan

cms88 wrote: »

There was one about Monaghan i think it was on Setanta

Yeah , there was a second season of the Rod Squad when he was Monaghan manager. Think it covered the point up to where they withdrew from the league.

landofthetree

Celtic fans attacking Waterford fans in Lansdowne rd in 1970.

https://www.rte.ie/archives/2020/0922/1166695-violence-at-celtic-waterford-tie/

fryup

^^^^^^^^

well that's a surprise, thought they'd be arm in arm singing RA'songs all brothers together

cj maxx

No Ireland is a great football country. Provincial and all Ireland's are sold out every year

guitarzero

Having played football throughout my youth I've noticed a few things:

Power wins. The game was always played rough, a lot of hacking, fouling, a lot of heavy challenges, all over-looked lending the more rough and ready types to excel and the more slight and maybe more technical to be demoralized and lose interest.

Lack of intellect. Lets be honest, particularly Dublin, the game is not played by the more cerebral amongst us. I knew a French guy I worked with who had play for the France U16 and he would always talk about how tactics were a major part of youth football. In Dublin the football ethos is to get stuck in, get the ball moving forward and get your head on the end of it. I think thats one of the reasons why England has the same issue with success, no brains behind all that potential whereas the likes of Italy, Germany, Holland and Spain have.(see nationality of most successful managers)

Smaller pool of players. My guess is that Holland, Portugal, Uruguay, Belgium and even Sweden would have soccer as their no.1 sport by a significant margin. Here in Ireland we have 4 major sports that are jostling it out for numbers. I think this correlates with why, to an extent, Russia, China and the USA still remain underdogs going into tournaments despite massive populations.

Ability: We rarely produce gifted players. I cant explain this. Barring Robbie Keane, name an Irish player since Liam Brady that could do magic with the ball. I dont know if you can mold a Messi, a Ronaldinho or Okocha, I think they're just born. Even Wales have produced a Bale.:pac:

SHOVELLER

Bottom line is that as long as some "Irish" think its ok to fund a foreign league then they have no right to any opinion on what is good for Irish football. Amazing that this even has to be pointed out but the lost millions annually could easily fund an Irish club in the Champions League.

Only hope is outside investment in our clubs as we are slowly seeing now. Three qualifications for the Europa League group stages achieved in the last decade shows what can be done.

FAI is a mess and Delaney is just an expected embarrassment there. Who was really surprised at the allegations? Since he has left the decision making has been as bad. Witness seeking applications from makey up clubs to our league.

Like Ireland itself we will just bumble along waiting for crumbs when the potential is so incredible.

EmmetSpiceland

Would be nice if instead of “pumping” money into this World Cup bid the government could invest in the League of Ireland.

Wouldn’t trust the FAI with it but the idea of hosting World Cup games in a country where the domestic game is played in grounds that are badly in need of “upgrading” just doesn’t sit right.

partyguinness

guitarzero wrote: »

Power wins. The game was always played rough, a lot of hacking, fouling, a lot of heavy challenges, all over-looked lending the more rough and ready types to excel and the more slight and maybe more technical to be demoralized and lose interest.

Yeah my experience was the same. Even when we played 'footballing' team underage it was a case of "Sure no problem, we will just hoof it up and crowd them out."

I started underage circa 1991 onwards and the Jack Charlton attitude was very much to fore i.e. no fancy ****. Get rid of it. You got more praise from the sideline for hoofing it up to the corner over the full back than taking it down and passing it- gave lads a heart attack. The football was seen as a hot potato.

guitarzero wrote: »

Lack of intellect. Lets be honest, particularly Dublin, the game is not played by the more cerebral amongst us. I knew a French guy I worked with who had play for the France U16 and he would always talk about how tactics were a major part of youth football. In Dublin the football ethos is to get stuck in, get the ball moving forward and get your head on the end of it. I think thats one of the reasons why England has the same issue with success, no brains behind all that potential whereas the likes of Italy, Germany, Holland and Spain have.(see nationality of most successful managers)

When I went to university I played intervarsity etc and we were a footballing team. Complete opposite to what I had been used to but the opposing teams beat us by hoofing long balls. We would pass teams to death but always came undone by the more agricultural teams.

It is true about England and no doubt in Ireland. There is no joined up thinking or philosphy like in Spain or German. In Spain and Germany all the teams from U8s up play the exact same system. Ever player knows their job. In England the clubs all operate as separate entities..no joined up thinking. Then they end up with a mish mash of styles and utterly clueless when they get to tournaments. That is why Germany and Spain can churn out successful players all the time. There is none of this "Golden Generation" BS or celebrtaing a semi final defeat.

Also the best coaches are put in charge of the underage team. In England the underage teams are seen as burden and nobody wants to coach them. Completely wrong.

guitarzero wrote: »

Smaller pool of players. My guess is that Holland, Portugal, Uruguay, Belgium and even Sweden would have soccer as their no.1 sport by a significant margin. Here in Ireland we have 4 major sports that are jostling it out for numbers. I think this correlates with why, to an extent, Russia, China and the USA still remain underdogs going into tournaments despite massive populations.

You can also add Croatia to the list of small countries that do well. Yes you do have that clash in particular the GAA hoovering up talent. But then again that is a lazy excuse for the FAI and defeatist. Having a coherent and focuses strategy from U8s up can be put in place perfectly fine. If the system is not there then players will inevitably be drawn to GAA or rugby.

"Build it and they will come"

guitarzero wrote: »

Ability: We rarely produce gifted players. I cant explain this. Barring Robbie Keane, name an Irish player since Liam Brady that could do magic with the ball. I dont know if you can mold a Messi, a Ronaldinho or Okocha, I think they're just born. Even Wales have produced a Bale.:pac:

I would say Damian Duff was Ireland's most talented player in recent memory but yeah there is a serious dearth of natural talent. Players like Duff or Brady or Keane are exceptions but if the systems are not in place it becomes hard to find them. To be fair Bale is exceptional although his career in in serious danger of petering out to nothing.

A few years back Giles and Dunphy were discussing this on TV and they blamed education and the rise in living standards...:D In other words lads are not out on street kicking balls all day long like in Old Mr Brennan's Day.

partyguinness

Another thing I would love to ask the FAI...why are you aping England for inspiration and sending young players over there?

How about following and aping an actual successful international footballing team like Spain, Holland Italy, Germany?

DrumSteve

partyguinness wrote: »

Another thing I would love to ask the FAI...why are you aping England for inspiration and sending young players over there?

How about following and aping an actual successful international footballing team like Spain, Holland Italy, Germany?

Because they don't want to have to pay to train and educate these footballers.