Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121706980#Comment_121706980

Makes you think.

Sounds like shte to people who actually think about it though.

Leroy42

You are really going to go by what JRM has to say? He has been wrong about virtually everything regarding Brexit and when he was Minister for Brexit Benefits he failed to name even one.

But he spouts of a list of stuff without any context or description and you just blindly accept them not only as facts, but facts that shoe Brexit is a success.

Did you stop to ask if all these wins were because of the great deal that Johnson did, which he voted for, or because of the subsequent rowing back that had to be done?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121706980#Comment_121706980

This would be the same Rees-Mogg who want to force rape victims to carry their assailant's child to term, immediately moved Somerset Capital Management to Dublin post Brexit and said could take 60 years to see benefits?

Why are you parroting this?

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121707039#Comment_121707039

It's not JRM saying it, it was an investigative piece by another journalist.

It certainly points to Brexit not being the calamity we were told it would be.

As I said before, that's my greatest fear is that the UK will destroy the EU, particularly Ireland. The US already is, leaving the EU for dust in terms of innovation and economic growth.

Hermy

Can you name the journalist and provide a link to their investigative piece?

As for not being a calamity, Brexit has been nothing but from day one.

The whole thing is built on lies, and more and more lies had to be told to Get Brexit Done, all of which has had a hugely damaging effect on UK politics, society and their economy.

And on your last point, please explain to me how exactly the UK is going to destroy the EU?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121708977#Comment_121708977

As I said before, that's my greatest fear is that the UK will destroy the EU, particularly Ireland.

How might this actually happen in the real world?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121708977#Comment_121708977

But you quoted JRM and now that that's been questioned, you're moving the goalposts.

Honestly, this stinks of Irexiter nonsense. The UK can't govern itself properly but will somehow destroy the EU. You continually contort yourself to maintain a fantasy that's as sad as it is pathetic.

The EU is not going anywhere and parroting Brexiter nonsense from venal liars is not going to alter that.

It's been almost eight years now. I'm bemused why you persist on dredging up debunked drivel from over half a decade ago. It's fantastic nonsense from nationalists who ceaselessly purse the worst for their own people.

yagan

Again salonfire throws shite out without a link.

This is not an update to the discussion. It's the same lounge bore scutter that's too entertained on this site.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121708977#Comment_121708977

What is "innovation" supposed to be as a viable metric? That's just abstraction without substance.

Economies go up and down, there are clear wobbles in the EU at the moment, but only one has decided to sanction itself as an ideological decision - and there's zero indication the decision has paid off in any respect. Trade deals have shown to be next to useless, the local economy in real terms has become a horror show in places & the UK's existence as a rule taker ensures export and import will remain a pain point for years yet.

The UK can barely govern itself, we're far from this "Singapore on Thames" that was supposedly gonna threaten the EU.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121709366#Comment_121709366

Exactly why I disagree with people earlier who said the likes of Kermit should be entertained.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121708977#Comment_121708977

It certainly points to Brexit not being the calamity we were told it would be.

How?

The UK economy generally always grew faster than the EU average, that it is currently still doing so does not in and of itself tell you anything about the impact of Brexit. Most studies I have seen still fall down on the side of Brexit being a significant drag and that the separation between the UK and the EU has lessened.

The UK will end up having to follow a bucketload of the EU directives anyway. They will also introduce hundreds of their own. The mere act of not having EU directives automatically applicable by law is not this massive benefit that Brexiteers seem to think. Making the regulatory landscape more disjointed and confusing has the potential to be significantly worse.

Also the UK is failing miserably in finding new trade deals, so I wouldn't be trumpeting that as a positive.

Your greatest fear is stupid, frankly. Whatever may or may not befall the EU it won't be caused by an increasingly erratic and irrelevant UK.

peter kern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121709767#Comment_121709767

well according the house of commons library from the uk parliament , euro zone gdp is 3 percent above pre covid and brexit, uk gpd is 1.4 percent above pre covid and brexit.

at the same time the ukanrian war has cost geramy more than brexit the uk and germany significantly brings down the 3 percent euro growth.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121706980#Comment_121706980

• On Directives: yeah sure, the U.K. is no longer in the EU. It only approves ~80 Directives per year mind, so the number quoted there is typical nonsense. However you need to look beyond the fact of simply "dodging" EU law. Sure there is the sovereign argument for preferring to not be subject to such law (even though the U.K. had more than a proportional influence on the shaping of such laws) but this is only something beneficial if you can explain how the divergence is better? How does Business dodging Environmental, Social and Governance reporting help the average British citizen, for example?
• On Trade deals: you can find information on the EU's trade deal efforts here: EU Trade agreements (europa.eu). To say there have been "zero" additional trade deals is manifestly false. Not that this stuff really matters anyway. Removing tariffs to trade from far flung economies doesn't move the needle on this stuff overall. Tariffs represent a small portion of the cost of trading across markets. Paperwork, geography, freedom of movement, equivalent standards: the Brexit idea of replacing a large immediate market by cobbling together trade deals with much smaller far flung markets is a nonsense
• On relative economic performance: and this nonsense is in the most recent actual data: GDP - International Comparisons: Key Economic Indicators - House of Commons Library (parliament.uk). The eurozone has been growing more than the U.K. and that is forecast to continue. On Brexit specifically, you can find recent research estimating a 2 - 3% GDP reduction compared to a scenario where the U.K. retained membership: Revisiting the Effect of Brexit - NIESR

These claims are all easily googled salonfire, using reputable sources or primary data from the EU / U.K. directly. If you are accepting statements made by JRM absent of supporting data then it is YOU who is not "thinking".

Hermy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121709676#Comment_121709676

Just to be clear I never said that the likes of Kermit should be 'entertained'.

Rather their posts should be allowed so that they can rightly be pulled asunder and shown for the politically illiterate nonsense that they are.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121706980#Comment_121706980

The EU has very little need to do any additional trade deals, given the huge number it has in place.

It's not desperate, like the UK is. But please point us to any trade deals the UK has done which actually advantage it compared to continuing in the EU

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710121#Comment_121710121

Same difference. Either was threads go from have a steady trickle of informative posts worth reading to finding "30 unread" every time you open the phone but its 30 posts of over and back shte.

Anything in politics relating to Northern Ireland has been made absolutely uninhabitable by a Sinn Fein and a DUP clown.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710121#Comment_121710121

If they were adding new input to the discussion that would be something, but it's the same scutter from the same posters presenting debunked tropes as new inputs.

As breazy said when a thread has a new update the expectation is new information, but too often it's pages of the same rebuttals of the same lounge lizard scutter.

I really only bother with this thread because the topic is still the largest geopolitical realignment for our country since the Whitaker reforms.

ancapailldorcha

I'd be keen to hear what Brexit benefits the Irexiters would lament losing if the UK rejoined tomorrow.

I'm in Marseille for the rugby. I never get tired of overtaking moaning Brits at immigration. That's a bit of a niche one though and one I'd happily lose for EU membership.

Hermy

**

Strazdas

The accepted view seems to be that Brexit is a busted flush and a total failure. Really, the only subject that current Brexiteers should be discussing is why it failed - not whether it was ever a good idea or not.

LuckyLloyd

I can see both sides of the 'should people be allowed to post untruths' argument, but I must say I lean towards the idea that allowing people to pop up and repeat previously disproven drivel is a net negative. You shouldn't be allowed to post along the lines of Britain doing better economically post Brexit, because it is disproven by available economic data. You also shouldn't be allowed to say that it's doing better than the Eurozone. There is an objective truth that disproves such ideas. It would be like someone coming back periodically into the Geography forum and arguing that the earth is flat, despite them being disproven each time with pictures of the earth from space.

Arguing for Brexit benefits like reduced immigration, law making and global trade deals are a different category because, while those arguments are meritless on balance, it does require a bit more explaining of the point. Only a bit though.

The risk that is run by allowing people to pop up and misrepresent data or post outright lies is it creates an appearance of those core ideas being in dispute. They are not. You can *want* Brexit to have been good economically or you can *feel* it is better to "take back control" but reality is discordant with those ends. We live in a real world and certain things are just so.

tomhammer..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710722#Comment_121710722

Ya the situation may have been confusing at first but now it's clear that brexit is just a hassle adding complexity to trade

New hygiene certificates this week

Dup were eejits pushing for it

mm_surf

I've had email conversations with some of the analysts at the OBR, with a view to seeing how their model determines the economic effects of brexit.

The biggest indicator they found to give an eye if scale was "trade intensity" in goods (trade levels in terns of both imports and exports).

It's dropped significantly for the UK compared to the G7. So it negates pr balances out any covid/inflation/Ukraine effects.

Brexiters simply handwave it away, of course.

M.

landofthetree

https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1754441841695445275

More proof

timetogo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121723243#Comment_121723243

Of what?

dogbert27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121709330#Comment_121709330

The UK will destroy the EU by dragging it down to it's level of stupidity and beating the EU with experience! :)

I mean BoJo as a PM and there are still calls for him to be re-elected! 🙈

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121723243#Comment_121723243

Nope. It's just a lazy Irexiter link dump.

IEA disaster capitalist from 55 Tufton St. The idea that the UK will overtake the EU because Brexit wasn't a complete disaster is like telling a promising young athlete that they'll surpass Mo Farah if they have their legs removed and then saying they're ok because they're still alive.

Brexit was a stupid idea but Irexit makes it look like The Count of Monte Cristo. Heck, I asked in an interview in the Netherlands if that country was likely to leave the EU. My interlocutors laughed. The EU could spend trillions on marketing that would never be a tenth as effective as Brexit was and is.

landofthetree

https://twitter.com/julianHjessop/status/1754477812705050975

France and Germany in decline.

landofthetree

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/london-global-financial-centres-top-spot-rankings-city-b1134350.html

London back at number 1. Brexit

Seth Brundle

Mod: @landofthetree no more link dumps. I'd advise reading the charter before posting again.