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Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,389 ✭✭✭ 54and56

    Ah I'm sorry about it inconveniencing you, honestly. I lived in London and was similarly inconvenienced by Tube strikes back in the early 90's so I feel your pain.

    I do however think Mick Lynch is genuinely impressive, perhaps that view is qualified given he is surrounded by such lightweights both in terms of politicians put up against him and the interviewer's he has faced but regardless he does seem to be in total command of his brief so to speak, comes across as highly confident without being arrogant and has a rare talent for articulating his position or answering questions in a brutally candid manner using plain language. Most political parties could do with someone of his calibre on their leadership team.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,375 CMod ✭✭✭✭ ancapailldorcha

    Thanks. Last strike made me get in for 11:45. Not great.

    Aye, he is impressive but since most of the government are there simply to be loyal to Johnson and not actually work for a living, this isn't difficult. Years of dealing with trade union politics will have shaped him into an adept well able to handle the likes of Kay Burley.

    Show me a god that does not demand mortal suffering. Show me a god that celebrates diversity, a celebration that embraces even non-believers, and is not threatened by them. Show me a god that understands the meaning of peace. In life, not in death.

    Steven Erikson

  • Registered Users Posts: 816 ✭✭✭ reslfj

    Indeed and the EU are very professional players and very able to use of all of the trade war 'orchestra'.

    The other part to the WA/NIP and TCA is not the island of Ireland, but the UK government backed by mostly English people.

    NI and Scotland voted against Brexit, Wales had/has a large group of English people - many older.

    The EU trade is with England is by far the largest part of EU-UK trade in goods, services and capital.

    The EU will surely play firm but low key until the proposed law is actually passed.

    The EU will focus its actions on England-continental EU26 trade i.e. across the Channel, North Sea, Bay of Biscay plus from UK airports.

    The EU will attempt to make its actions on the island of Ireland as light as possible.

    But will - IMO - possibly use diabolically hard measures against smuggling out of Ireland (e.g. confiscation of goods and lorries/containers and criminal actions against drivers, forwarders, owners, and EU buyers. Even ferries might be charged.

    The EU goal will be to get England to fold and return to the NIP - fully implemented.

    Anything outside the Joint Committee's competence simply will not be changed.

    The EU will not care much for GB businesses, but focus on frictionless trade between NI the EU (of which Ireland is one of 27 members)

    Lars 😀

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,188 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985

    Well if he is anything like his predecessor Mick Cash (also of Irish parents) we will see plenty of him in the coming years.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭ peter kern

    but again it can only be brexit related if no other eu country had issues with airports. other countries in eu do have issues with airports ....

  • Registered Users Posts: 169 ✭✭ mrunsure

    Do mainstream electrical goods sold in the EU (for example phones, TVs etc.) generally have the UKCA marking as well as CE marking? I live in the south of England and don't know anyone in the EU in 'real life' that I can ask this question.

    Everything I've bought (in England) recently has both markings. I haven't bought anything with just the UKCA marking. Logically it would just be easier for items to have both markings if they want to sell to both the UK and the EU.

  • Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭ Glaceon

    Yes I’ve seen plenty of IT equipment with the UKCA mark over the last year or so.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭ joeysoap

    Both markings now seem to be fairly common - then again i would always price electrical appliances in both NI and here, (even if they originate in EU)

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,708 ✭✭✭✭

    The kites are going up for the public. From the SBP. A Fine Gael MEP would not mention this without having it cleared by party HQ.

    The EU may have to consider temporary checks on goods coming from Ireland if the British government moves ahead with its Northern Ireland protocol legislation, Sean Kelly has said.

    I expect to see more kites being flown in the next few weeks and ramping up in the next few months softening up the public for what is absolutely inevitable with the trajectory we are on. You can make your own minds up on what "temporary" means. I think everyone knows what that means.

    I expect the usual denials on here to continue. It's not your fault. The government has not been honest for obvious reasons so the gravity of the situation we are in thanks to our neighbours has not been made apparent.

    I would suggest the group think of "the EU is always right about everything" and they are playing 4D chess comes to an end quick fast and trade action is demanded against the UK for threatening the interests of the EU member.

    Otherwise Ireland will fall out of the single market by default. That is Britain's clear intention now.

    Post edited by on

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,828 ✭✭✭✭ Ads by Google

    This is exactly what you want, is it not? Ireland out of the EU and Single Market?

    Why do you feign dismay at the prospect?

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,708 ✭✭✭✭

    It's not what I want. I have no issue with the single market.

    I just don't want our future decided by London any more than I do Brussels.

    London is calling the shots now.

    I'm waiting for everyone to wake up to the seriousness of the situation. The Department of Foreign Affairs know full well how serious it is. The Irish public don't.

    The way this is going to go now is you will see gradually these ideas floating to soften the public up. That's how these things work. It's like planting a seed.

    We'll still have the same denials from the usual on here. Heads in the sand.

    Said before i'm the one pleading for EU action because I know how this will roll for us. Others here are in total denial. It's happening before their eyes and they remain in denial.

    Just to be clear with everyone once a check goes up between Ireland and the continent - from that moment Ireland is an associate member of the single market. Once all checks go up as is inevitable as things currently stand Ireland is out of the single market.

    Post edited by on

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,708 ✭✭✭✭

    The seriousness is not understood. You can count on one hand the number of weeks the continent is going to allow a hole here in the SM - it won't get that far - it will be the number of days.

    Let's take Sean Kelly's statement - the ERG have already won at that point. Ireland is out of the single market. It's not "temporary" - lol. You might be surprised how quickly this will all happen

    The EU should have taken action before now. A member state has been basically threatened for the last 5 years. They haven't.

    Mark my words. They won't. Britain, like it or not, Brexit or not, is too important to Europe.

    If you believe they will then more power to you.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,211 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan

    What you claim as inevitable is not inevitable at all. The proposed Bill still has to pass in both houses of the UK parliament and it is far from certain that it will. If it does, the EU will step up actions against the UK for unilaterally breaking an international agreement and the US is sure to react to the UK's actions and its impact on the GFA (and they have already made it abundantly clear that they will react to that).

    If the UK can weather the almighty shıtstorm which would be delivered upon it and deviates from EU standards, then checks between Ireland and EU becomes a consideration. It is extremely unlikely though that the UK will ever get that far because either the Bill fails or the consequences of passing the Bill take over. The trajectory is not linear resulting in what you claim to be an inevitability, in reality the only inevitability is that the current trajectory itself will introduce factors which mean the conclusion will be far from what you think/want it to be.

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,708 ✭✭✭✭

    Two points - the EU should have taken action before now. It hasn't. It should have made it crystal clear to the British public the consequences of their government's actions - i.e "that's a nice Nissan plant in Sunderland, we can do something about that"...they don't even know ffs. Nothing has happened in that regard. That's how you get to the cabal of crooks running the UK atm.

    Secondly it's a brave Irish person who relies on the Lords.

    The fact we even have to do that says a lot really too.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,211 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan

    The EU is already taking legal action and has made it clear that it will take further actions if the UK continues with what its going. The EU can't take action against something which hasn't happened yet, this isn’t Minority Report. The consequences of their government's actions are already crystal clear to the UK public, many just refuse to believe it, the consequences of Brexit are clear now and still many refuse to believe. Issuing threats like that would only strengthen the UK government's position, with their domestic audience at least, and give them cover to continues down their current path.

    It is far from guaranteed that the Bill will pass the HoC nevermind the HoL. This UK government could even collapse before this is voted on.

    We all know you want the EU to do something which will harm itself, what is distributing is that you are annoyed that it won't!

  • Registered Users Posts: 21,708 ✭✭✭✭

    Our country has been harmed by instability for the last five years.

    What is the point of this club if we are depending on British parliamentarians to decide our fate? Same old.

    If it's all good and all powerful it shouldn't reach that point. Again - if we were France or Germany do you think they'd be depending on British votes deciding their fate?

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,188 ✭✭✭✭ breezy1985

    Ah Kermit good to see you back. You went missing for a while there after all your screaming about how we were screwed a few Mondays back and then nothing happened.

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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 27,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pixelburp

    You have some nerve to pull a patronising tone with folks here when you consistently, arrogantly proclaim the sky is falling for 6 years, despite it never actually happening and the logical contrary points spelled out to you repeatedly.

    You shamelessly find quotes to match your desires, then calculate backwards to the wrong result. You'd think with Claire Daly and Mick Wallace we shouldn't put much stock in the wittering of a single MEP - or any single elected rep. One swallow does not mean a summer. Should we dig out all the times you declared with certainty we were about to be shafted? You know that takes effort so are probably banking on people not having that degree of pettiness.

    Mind you, the succession of posts slamming you for your fantasies probably just emboldens your resolve so maybe I am the fool.

  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭ Ham Grenade

    you can’t really equate Sean Kelly to Mick Wallace/Clare Daly. He’s lead author for the European Parliament for new legislation aimed at responding to any breaches of the EU-UK withdrawal agreement by the British government.

    A lot of people here will have egg on their puss if this Kermit lad is proven correct.

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,375 CMod ✭✭✭✭ ancapailldorcha

    The EU will betray Ireland any day now. For six years.

    Show me a god that does not demand mortal suffering. Show me a god that celebrates diversity, a celebration that embraces even non-believers, and is not threatened by them. Show me a god that understands the meaning of peace. In life, not in death.

    Steven Erikson

  • Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭ FraserburghFreddie

    I agree with kermits view that Ireland doesn't have as much sway as many here believe. I also believe the US can't be relied on to put the UK in its place over the protocol as they can't sort their own country out,let alone Ireland/UK.

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,717 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Hermy

    You could say the same about the UK re sorting their own country out.

    Ever since Brexit they've been sliding down a grubby hill all of their own making.

    And if they persist in this way - which seems highly likely - things are only going to get worse for them.

    Genealogy Forum Mod

  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 27,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pixelburp

    The word "if" is doing all the heavy lifting here. The tedious user has consistently predicted Ireland being turfed out of the SM for 6 years. 6 years of the same "any minute now" thread phrased with barely disguised gleee. The record hasn't changed and each prediction was based on a passing comment at best, or headline teaf-leaf reading at worst.

    I don't know how the current impasse is solved but each time there has been one, the UK has folded to some degree. All this is internal "look over there" tactics by Johnson and have no great fear myself this is a serious , considered tactic.

  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭ Ham Grenade

    I wonder why a respected MEP like Sean Kelly is lending weight to it? Surely all this does is embolden the UK an ERG types?

  • Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭ FraserburghFreddie

    I agree the UK needs to sort itself out,although the longer Johnson continues to 'carry on regardless' puts another nail in his and the tories political coffins.He will continue to cause damage to the UK and probably Ireland unless the EU call his bluff which I don't believe they have the guts to do.

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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 27,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pixelburp

    This ain't a game of chicken though. The EU has a mechanism for punishment - and it's the legal action it has restarted against the UK. We're sticking to the method. When one country is steadfastly determined to ignore and break international law, now is not the time for the other side of the issue to start behaving similarly. And if recent events are to go by, Johnson may not be long for this political world.

    Rash action is unwise, especially when every other trade partner/rival is watching what the EU does. If Turkey, the US, China etc see a weak EU bending to the UK, then the bloc becomes globally vulnerable. There's more at play here than placating the whims of a noted shyster PM trying to make an enemy of a friend. China only then needs to push dark money into every country with a threadbare relationship with Brussels.

    The nuclear solution here is a hard Irish border, but nobody wants that - but the EU - ie, Ireland - doesn't want to be ejected from one of the key pillars for our economic stability either. One would hope anyway. The border counties' own economies won't be considered worth the price of sabotaging everywhere else in the Republic. Maybe I'm only projecting my own bias, but I'd rather a big concrete wall around Clones than Ireland leaving the SM.