Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119331790#Comment_119331790

That might work though. The customs union could be limited as both parties desire. Of course it would mean no innovative trade deals with Australia but the resolution of the NI question would be a serious win for Labour if they go for this.

J Mysterio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119321096#Comment_119321096

Agreed with everything untill the last sentence. Its really not just hostile 'foreign' interests. That in itself is very Brexity.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119333176#Comment_119333176

True but it's where a lot of the money and power comes from. One thinks of Russian and Saudi donors to the Tory party, Rupert Murdoch and the Lebedevs.

Sam Russell

'Its really not just hostile 'foreign' interests. That in itself is very Brexity.'

I would class Murdock and his stable of right wing press titles 'foreign'. The Barclay brothers own the Telegraph and are British. The mysterious donations to the Brexit campaign, with a smell of foreign source, plus the secret use of social media targeting, and add in the Russian oligarchs with their funny money donations to the Tory Party and many MPs, and I think 'foreign' interests is accurate.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119333345#Comment_119333345

Its only one Barclay now (the other died). The groups tax domicile is very much not British!

J Mysterio

I just think that blaming foreign types is an easy out. Plenty of Tories got filthy rich out of Brexit, and lets not forget Johnson's benefactor, that tubby fellow with the unusual name I can't quite recall.

reslfj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119333388#Comment_119333388

Global minimum taxation for companies and global lifelong minimum taxation for very rich people and their close family

Lars 😀

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119333463#Comment_119333463

I never said it was exclusively foreign types. Not at all. Heck, Rees-Mogg Sr wrote the book on disaster capitalism. I think it's noteworthy that the English nationalist party of law and order bends over to foreign influence when expedient to do so.

J Mysterio

Crispin Odey... That was it!

ambro25

The British Investment Minister doesn’t seem to have received, nor read the “Global Britain” memo:

https://twitter.com/StefanieBolzen/status/1547456026559107073?s=20&t=OvD63d-3QqZ9QPvijuG-Ww

quote in Tw thread: in a further snub, the UK Minister recommends Stephan Weil, the elected First Minister of one of Germany's largest states for most of the last decade, to contact local diplomatic staff 'for any future discussions.

🙄

Britain fast falling back to that ‘nation of shopkeepers’, which DeGaulle was so keen to keep out of the EEC, and still haemorrhaging whatever goodwill it still has, left-right-and centre at every opportunity.

Works out fine for Leavers, I suppose.

peter kern

https://cms-internationsgmbh.netdna-ssl.com/cdn/file/cms-media/public/2022-07/Expat-Insider-2022.pdf

as unwelcoming we try to portray the uk for foreigners in this ranking they still beat 10.5 eu countries including in terms of culture and welcome and local friendliness

overall ireland and uk are right beside each other in the expat ranking of most liked destinations to move to . so it does not seem that most expats the the doom and gloom of uk some portray here

and since there was an argument about potatos and prices overall recently, or broadly finance ireland and uk rank 49th and 50 th out of 52 countries .

Hermy

Is it not the UK themselves that are portraying the UK as unwelcoming?

peter kern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119335240#Comment_119335240

sure but as they say dont just judge a book by its cover. sample size is of course small in the survey.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119335644#Comment_119335644

I lived there before and after Brexit and it certainly seemed to get a lot less welcoming. Open talk of people wanting the all the foreigners to leave in pubs full of EU staff. Not very welcoming and it was no surprise when I started to haemorrhage staff along with the rest of the industry.

Sure we have a bit of it here but nowhere near the scale of the UK.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119335673#Comment_119335673

I would say that it's welcoming in the sense that if you keep yourself to yourself, your chances of being bothered are very small relative to a lot of places. It can be hard to meet people but I find it an improvement on Ireland, especially Dublin.

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119335673#Comment_119335673

I'll never forget the night we were out for drinks and almost instantly after the last of the British colleagues had gone home the conversation turned to Brexit. Being Irish in England I was inured to a bit of cultural friction, we expect a few digs but because of legal status in the UK we can take it or leave it, leaving doesn't feel like a big deal.

However the gravity of the situation for my EU colleagues was much more serious than I had appreciated. Many had received abuse they'd got from British staff since Brexit. One Finnish person said after they'd been chatting with a family member back home that a British colleague told her Brexit had happened and she was to speak only English in the workplace now. This is in a research science setting!!!!

Anyway the EU people at that table that night had already started making their plans for progressing away from Britain, and this was only in the first year after the vote.

peter kern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119335673#Comment_119335673

again this is not what the survey says and iam not saying the survey is correct but its exactly not what you are saying uk vs eu participants. and i guess the uk sample siize is probably 700 vs your n1 . this just showes while ireladn is better a lot of eu countries seem to be worse than uk .

Sam Russell

There were reports of a lot of stupid ignorant anti-EU stuff going around after the vote - like Polish kids at school being given a laminated card by other parents, in Polish, to go home, and lots of similar small minded nastiness. It was fomented by the likes of the Brexit press in racist articles - worst offenders - DM & DE & less so by DT.

Yesterdays Martyn Turner cartoon in the IT - Conservative Leadership rostrum - Man saying - 'Brexit is no longer the elephant in the room' - 'It is so rotten, we had to tow it outside'.

However, Brexit still matters to the loony right in the ERG. Any candidate that needs their support has to be 500% a Brexiteer.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119336306#Comment_119336306

A Portuguese woman at work as assaulted for the crime of speaking Portuguese on her phone in broad daylight. A lot of EU migrants have felt that the country has become much less welcoming and tolerant after the referendum. In 2011, we had the Olympics here with lots of civic nationalism, celebrations of the country's history and heritage and symbols like Paddington Bear, the NHS and Mr Bean paraded galore. In 2021, Johnson and Co partied and danced to Abba while tens of thousands of Britons died and suffered.

The ERG will back anyone and then withdraw support once the Brexit chimera fails to appear. They were fine with May until her deal proved that the ideal Brexit that was promised to everyone is a fantasy.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119336215#Comment_119336215

I can't not go with what I saw.

BTW your survey shows that the UK is 36th out of 52 for "settling in" and slightly below average for welcoming. Ireland is 18th and above average.

The UK is only close to Ireland as appealing due to other factors it does not make them equally welcoming.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119331790#Comment_119331790

I'll keep saying that the Norway or Turkey deal isn't as much use to the UK as they aren't an exporter of food, fuel or raw materials as it would allow them to do their own trade deals on exports of such things. ( They want Norway +++++++ )

Unless they want to pay billions for the privilege of having something that's not quite BINO

Hotblack Desiato

It's almost as if the whole Brexit thing wasn't thought through at all.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339521#Comment_119339521

But the campaign was - and it worked. It relied in portraying Brexit as all things to all men. Unfortunately, it was not all things to all men - in fact it was anything but - but that is politics - selling a pig in a poke - or a three card trick.

peter kern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119336407#Comment_119336407

you can of course say that uk is a less welcoming place than ireland, and i totally agree with you with the exception of scotland ,but i think we agree the eu is was not just ireland and uk .......

you can not generalise and say that the uk is a less welcoming place than the eu as there is 10 or 11 countires that seem to do worse according to this survey . so if you complain that the uk is not open to foreign people you say pretty much the same about the eu inhabitants .

peter kern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338199#Comment_119338199

not to forget that norway deal is already free movement of people ... and no influence in eu matters ....

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119340421#Comment_119340421

Norway has influence as I understand it. I read a rather good article during the Brexit debates and Norway has informal input into EU lawmaking. What it does not have is a vote or a veto. The EU27 can listen to Norway but they'll override it if so inclined.

Sadly, this option is unavailable to due to entailing free movement as you've said. I think the next logical step is a Labour government that can begin to restore the UK's reputation internationally. That will likely mean respecting the protocol or maybe a renegotiated version of it and building trust which will take years.

yagan

Just a note on surveys. I've lived in a few cities that regularly make the top ten most liveable places and my conclusion was they're not worth anything. Raw date doesn't give us a picture, it gives us the paint and the canvas and that's it.

yagan

Just a note on surveys. I've lived in a few cities that regularly make the top ten most liveable places in some anglosphere publications like the Economist and my conclusion was they're not worth anything. Raw data doesn't give us the picture. Instead it gives us the paints and a blank canvas but that's it. How it works on street level is a completely different matter.

Edit to add, most surveys seem to be just marketing.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119340390#Comment_119340390

I don't think I ever generalized. I thought I always made it clear I was talking about what I experienced and observed when I lived there.

I'm not sure what any of your points on the EU are about. Sorry but I actually don't understand what you are asking there.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119341235#Comment_119341235

Any "most livable" place I've ever been was awful boring.