Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

duploelabs

Interesting opinion piece by George Conway in the wp about the legal jeopardy trump is now facing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/22/trump-charges-george-conway/?arc404=true

dogbert27

pixelburp wrote: »

No new party will last without the support of lobbyists and (super) PACs to work as slush funds and power brokers. If it were true, the AOC and Sanders of this world would have already long departed the Democrate. It can't be overstated just how engrained monied interests has become in US politics, and if one thing's clear from the last 4, 5 years it's that Trump hasn't a damn clue just how astroturfed the grass roots are. Or have a damn clue in general TBH.

If his don't align with others' interests his war chest is unlikely to last long enough to make an effect. He might get a couple of wingnuts last the finish line but if Trumpism has any staying power, it won't be with him as defacto leader. Maybe. I guess, who knows at this stage.

Which is probably the reason he reversed his executive order on the last day to allow lobbying again

Cody montana

duploelabs wrote: »

Interesting opinion piece by George Conway in the wp about the legal jeopardy trump is now facing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/22/trump-charges-george-conway/?arc404=true

Trump has zero protection now.
He had to comply with everything?

Professor Moriarty

I think Twitter should reinstate Trump. The vitriol, lies and whining would be entertaining.

duploelabs

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I think Twitter should reinstate Trump. The vitriol, lies and whining would be entertaining.

No, misinformation on twitter dropped a significant amount following taking trump off it. I'd prefer to get my entertainment from legitimate entertainers, not ones that threaten democracy

Professor Moriarty

duploelabs wrote: »

No, misinformation on twitter dropped a significant amount following taking trump off it. I'd prefer to get my entertainment from legitimate entertainers, not ones that threaten democracy

Yeah but it's so quiet now. Tumbleweeds are rolling past my house.

duploelabs

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Yeah but it's so quiet now. Tumbleweeds are rolling past my house.

Good, I like my politics boring, not every day having a new scandal that would be a once-in-a-term event with a normal presidency

briany

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Yeah but it's so quiet now. Tumbleweeds are rolling past my house.

Enjoy the stillness, I say.

dogbert27

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Yeah but it's so quiet now. Tumbleweeds are rolling past my house.

Maybe you should start following Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley and Greene for tweets and giggles! :pac:

Professor Moriarty

dogbert27 wrote: »

Maybe you should start following Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley and Greene for tweets and giggles! :pac:

When you put it like that, tumbleweeds suddenly become extremely interesting.

demfad

News coming earlier (below) shows how close the US came to losing its status as Republic in the slow motion coup attempt since the election never mind the acute violent coup at the Capitol which was only effectively thwarted a few days earlier by a Joint Statement by all living Secretaries of Defence.

Republicans have to sort the issue of Trump (and Tea-Partyism) sooner or later. Convicting him in the trial is now a necessity for its own survival.



https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-pressed-to-change-justice-department-leadership-to-boost-his-voter-fraud-claims-11611434369

dogbert27 wrote: »

Trump apparently has already raised 70 million to fund his new party and is using it to threaten Senators so they will not vote to convict him.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9180909/Trump-drafting-enemies-list-Republicans-Patriot-Party-challenge-primaries.html

Essentially it's his usual bullying tactics to try to get what he wants, playing on peoples fears. I hope the senators stay strong bury his political career once and for all.

"WASHINGTON—In his last weeks in office, former President Donald Trump considered moving to replace the acting attorney general with another official ready to pursue unsubstantiated claims of election fraud, and he pushed the Justice Department to ask the Supreme Court to invalidate President Biden’s victory, people familiar with the matter said.

Those efforts failed due to pushback from his own appointees in the Justice Department, who refused to file what they viewed as a legally baseless lawsuit in the Supreme Court. Later, other senior department officials threatened to resign en masse should Mr. Trump fire then-acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen, according to several people familiar with the discussions.

Senior department officials, including Mr. Rosen, former Attorney General William Barr and former acting Solicitor General Jeffrey Wall refused to file the Supreme Court case, concluding that there was no basis to challenge the election outcome and that the federal government had no legal interest in whether Mr. Trump or Mr. Biden won the presidency, some of these people said."

briany

demfad wrote: »

Republicans have to sort the issue of Trump (and Tea-Partyism) sooner or later. Convicting him in the trial is now a necessity for its own survival.

I think they're screwed either way in the short to medium term. If they don't convict Trump, he can come back into the electoral fold and divide the party yet more, probably necessitating a purge of all the old Republicans with a bit of sense and decency. If they do convict Trump, then that will also divide the party because many Trumpists will see the conviction as an attempt to stifle the Trump movement, and therefore a betrayal. The Republican vote will fall through either disillusionment or a Trumpist protest candidate and the Dems will get another presidential term.

Given the choices, and how power for the sake of power seems to be an unspoken mantra of Conservatives, they'll probably go option A. Around half of the American electorate has spoken. They're paranoid, reactionary and arrogant. The Republican party establishment may opt to become a true reflection of this mindset. This will, for a while, keep their party viable, but it's also the true gloves-off moment because you can't really talk to crazy, so what that means is the potential breakdown of all civil political discourse, and where it goes from there is anyone's guess.

amandstu

briany wrote: »

I think they're screwed either way in the short to medium term. If they don't convict Trump, he can come back into the electoral fold and divide the party yet more, probably necessitating a purge of all the old Republicans with a bit of sense and decency. If they do convict Trump, then that will also divide the party because many Trumpists will see the conviction as an attempt to stifle the Trump movement, and therefore a betrayal. The Republican vote will fall through either disillusionment or a Trumpist protest candidate and the Dems will get another presidential term.

Given the choices, and how power for the sake of power seems to be an unspoken mantra of Conservatives, they'll probably go option A. Around half of the American electorate has spoken. They're paranoid, reactionary and arrogant. The Republican party establishment may opt to become a true reflection of this mindset. This will, for a while, keep their party viable, but it's also the true gloves-off moment because you can't really talk to crazy, so what that means is the potential breakdown of all civil political discourse, and where it goes from there is anyone's guess.

Absolutely flabbergasting that the GOP might have any hope at all of success in any elections in the medium term.

With what they have turned into and what they have enabled it is incredible that they have any hope at all of survival as a competitive national party.

Still it seems they may have a path to survival.

Perhaps this thread should be closed now so as not to give too much oxygen to DJT and he should only really be discussed in specIfic terms relating to his upcoming cases and his effect on the GOP?

Or will it just die its own death hopefully?

Paleface

I can't see an obvious way for the GOP to back way from Trump-ism. This is why Ted Cruz is all in on replacing Trump as the figurehead of this movement. He's still relatively young in political terms and fancies his chances of pivoting again further down the line if this play doesn't work. But its definitely the only play right now if you want to win.

I think Romney will run again in 2024 as the voice of the establishment and will crash and burn in a style similar to Jeb Bush in 2016.

Its the party of the "crazies" for the foreseeable future. I just still can't comprehend how this manifests to 70 odd million Americans!

prawnsambo

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Yeah but it's so quiet now. Tumbleweeds are rolling past my house.

Maybe this will liven things up for you. Be careful what you wish for and all that.

Muahahaha

Tonight BBC2 9pm

The Trump Show: The Downfall
9pm, BBC Two
The final days of Trump’s presidency were just as measured as the
preceding four years. Before November’s election, this series tracked
the Trump shambles as it unfolded. With America on the cusp of a saner
era, it returns for a rummage through the rubble of US democracy

relax carry on

Paleface wrote: »

Its the party of the "crazies" for the foreseeable future. I just still can't comprehend how this manifests to 70 odd million Americans!

That's the most interesting thing out of all of this for me. How much does the creeping insanity since the tea party days and supercharged by 4 years of Trumpism still translate to 70 odd million votes? Is it a core problem with the US political system, society, educational system, economic system? Is it just the decline of empire? Without politicians on both sides taking a long hard look at just how they got where they did, there's bound to be a more successful version of Trump looking for hose 70 odd million voters.

spacecoyote

prawnsambo wrote: »

Maybe this will liven things up for you. Be careful what you wish for and all that.

Would have thought this would basically guarantee his conviction? If he's convicted he cant hold political office, and that's the party done before they've even started.

Obviously its just another grift on his side of things, way to clear a few more debts.

Ash.J.Williams

wandererz wrote: »

The level of pettiness is unbelievable.

"The Trumps sent the butlers home when they left so there would be no one to help the Bidens when they arrived"

Reminds me of all those memes of baby Trump throwing a tantrum.

Didn’t the Clinton staff remove all the “w” from the keyboards in the white house before George W moved in

Itssoeasy

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Didn’t the Clinton staff remove all the “w” from the keyboards in the white house before George W moved in

No they didn’t. That’s been debunked by both sides. That’s not to say that it was as harmonious as the bush to Obama transition.

prawnsambo

spacecoyote wrote: »

Would have thought this would basically guarantee his conviction? If he's convicted he cant hold political office, and that's the party done before they've even started.

Obviously its just another grift on his side of things, way to clear a few more debts.

Not sure it will happen anyway. He's threatening to primary GOP senators that voted to impeach him, which he can't do if he starts a new party. And a new party is very difficult to start. I'd see it as more of a Farage type move to continue to fleece the susceptible.

briany

spacecoyote wrote: »

Would have thought this would basically guarantee his conviction? If he's convicted he cant hold political office, and that's the party done before they've even started.

Obviously its just another grift on his side of things, way to clear a few more debts.

I doubt it would be a Patriot Party of one. Therefore, even if Trump were to be convicted, he could still put up another candidate with the message being, "Vote for this person who'll do pretty much whatever I say. I'll be your president by proxy."

By voting to convict Trump, the Republican party gives Trump no pause to follow through on whatever vengeance he can. Trump wouldn't really care that cleaving 10 million votes, to throw out a speculative number, might all but guarantee a Democrat victory in forthcoming elections. He's simply interested in blackmailing the Republican party into bending to his will, or else punishing them at the ballot box.

Even putting Trump in jail doesn't really end his influence. It just stirs up the crazies even more, who then come to view him as a political martyr, kind of like an evil Nelson Mandela.

aloyisious

Paleface wrote: »

I can't see an obvious way for the GOP to back way from Trump-ism. This is why Ted Cruz is all in on replacing Trump as the figurehead of this movement. He's still relatively young in political terms and fancies his chances of pivoting again further down the line if this play doesn't work. But its definitely the only play right now if you want to win.

I think Romney will run again in 2024 as the voice of the establishment and will crash and burn in a style similar to Jeb Bush in 2016.

Its the party of the "crazies" for the foreseeable future. I just still can't comprehend how this manifests to 70 odd million Americans!

If Cruz dodges any blame for the Capitol insurrection and survives to go on to replace Trump as the figurehead, then the GOP is likely to spend time in the doldrums until it can get rid of the shadow of Trump. If it allows Cruz to take up Trump's mantle and still profess that he's a Republican in the GOP style, then the Dems are in for a few more years in the White House, maybe even both the senate and house.

Water John

aloyisious wrote: »

If Cruz dodges any blame for the Capitol insurrection and survives to go on to replace Trump as the figurehead, then the GOP is likely to spend time in the doldrums until it can get rid of the shadow of Trump. If it allows Cruz to take up Trump's mantle and still profess that he's a Republican in the GOP style, then the Dems are in for a few more years in the White House, maybe even both the senate and house.

No way would the Trump family allow the anointment of Cruz.

Professor Moriarty

prawnsambo wrote: »

Maybe this will liven things up for you. Be careful what you wish for and all that.

A bit of good news. Anything that decreases the GOP's vote is fine by me.

StupidLikeAFox

relax carry on wrote: »

That's the most interesting thing out of all of this for me. How much does the creeping insanity since the tea party days and supercharged by 4 years of Trumpism still translate to 70 odd million votes? Is it a core problem with the US political system, society, educational system, economic system? Is it just the decline of empire? Without politicians on both sides taking a long hard look at just how they got where they did, there's bound to be a more successful version of Trump looking for hose 70 odd million voters.

Its the two party system - their entire political system has been dumbed down to a choice of red or blue. If you don't like blue you vote red and vice versa. Donald trump got 70m votes but there's no way of knowing how many of those were for DJT, how many were because he was the "red guy" or how many were because he wasn't the "blue guy"

Brian?

aloyisious wrote: »

If Cruz dodges any blame for the Capitol insurrection and survives to go on to replace Trump as the figurehead, then the GOP is likely to spend time in the doldrums until it can get rid of the shadow of Trump. If it allows Cruz to take up Trump's mantle and still profess that he's a Republican in the GOP style, then the Dems are in for a few more years in the White House, maybe even both the senate and house.

I’ve bad news on that. The GOP are likely to retake the house and Senate in 2022. I’d place a decent wager on it in fact.

Headshot

Brian? wrote: »

I’ve bad news on that. The GOP are likely to retake the house and Senate in 2022. I’d place a decent wager on it in fact.

What's your reasoning?

Quin_Dub

Brian? wrote: »

I’ve bad news on that. The GOP are likely to retake the house and Senate in 2022. I’d place a decent wager on it in fact.

I think they definitely have a shot in the house - The Senate map isn't doing them any favours again and if Biden et al push through DC Statehood it makes that even harder.

Trump has no real plan to run as an Independent , he knows he can't win outside a GOP/DEM ticket so not a chance he runs like that.

This "Patriot Party" schtick has two purposes , both fairly short term.

First it allows him to keep fundraising through PACs to grift cash off his supporters and second it's a way to pressure Senators into not Impeaching him - Vote against me and I'll run a candidate against you.

He's hoping that's enough to knock a few fence sitters back his direction - Sadly it probably is.

BonnieSituation

prawnsambo wrote: »

Maybe this will liven things up for you. Be careful what you wish for and all that.

The FEC filing is gas:

https://docquery.fec.gov/cgi-bin/forms/C00767095/1489852

Looks like the custodian of the filing is landscape gardener:

https://nextdoor.com/pages/mike-gaul-grovetown-ga/

:D:D