Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

amandstu

marno21 wrote: »

Special election called within 6 months of the vacancy occuring.

The Governor said previously that should Bernie Sanders take up a position in the Biden administration, he would replace him with an independent left leaning Senator who would caucus with the Dems, which is tradition in Vermont. But this is a Republican we're talking about so take that with a pinch of salt.

Seems Leahy is OK to go back to work tomorrow.

Headshot

The GOP have really sold their soul to the devil. Hard to fathom how one man has such a stranglehold on a party

Goose78

It is really bizarre but if they GOP vote to gut Trump they gut the base as well something I’m sure they’re painfully aware of

RobAMerc

tough decision for them.

They probably hate Trump, and are appalled at what he has done ( Threatening their lives and democracy ). But then they are politicians and therefore dont want to piss off the voters who voted for the man who rounded up the squad sent to overthrow and possibly kill them. They will want their votes soon !

MICKEYG

RobAMerc wrote: »

tough decision for them.

They probably hate Trump, and are appalled at what he has done ( Threatening their lives and democracy ). But then they are politicians and therefore dont want to piss off the voters who voted for the man who rounded up the squad sent to overthrow and possibly kill them. They will want their votes soon !

If votes mean that much then they are not appalled.
As has been seen for the past 4 years, they accepted his behaviour because of votes. They can't now make any valid claim to being appalled.

Overheal

RobAMerc wrote: »

tough decision for them.

They probably hate Trump, and are appalled at what he has done ( Threatening their lives and democracy ). But then they are politicians and therefore dont want to piss off the voters who voted for the man who rounded up the squad sent to overthrow and possibly kill them. They will want their votes soon !

You’re giving them way too much credit. They held a symbolic vote to interpret the constitution themselves to say an impeachment of Trump is unconstitutional (if Dems held such a vote they would have a meltdown about the co-equal branches of government). We could see this a mile off: that they would try to regard the trial as moot after January 20. Bit of a headturner that Mitch voted that way as well given his prior comments but sure enough most of us knew not to trust his words. They are only interested in keeping power, principle flew out the door decades ago. Every time they lose a majority they just come back even more radicalized.

Dohnjoe

Headshot wrote: »

The GOP have really sold their soul to the devil. Hard to fathom how one man has such a stranglehold on a party

Immense popularity among the voters that the rest of the party are beholden to.

demfad

The reality is that the Republicans are de facto no longer a democratic party in any reasonable understanding of the word.

They went along with Trump's fascistic behaviour over 4 years including minimizing his clear collusion (not proven conspiracy) with Russia and major players in the International criminal world. They conspired with him to lie about the first impeachment (again recruiting a Russian allied foreign power to try and steal the 2020 election this time).

The real 'Stop The Steal' was carried out by Democrats and some arms of Government who resisted Trump's long attempt at coup since losing the election.
If the living Secretaries of Defense had not come out in advance of the Capitol insurrection you may have had a very different scenario.

The Democrats must make crystal clear to Republicans that Trump will go down in abject disgrace with filth as his memory.....with or without them.

ancapailldorcha

Headshot wrote: »

The GOP have really sold their soul to the devil. Hard to fathom how one man has such a stranglehold on a party

He voiced their base prejudices and they love him for it so much that some of them were happy to attempt a coup on his behalf. The GOP can't afford to lose that base now and they'll mindlessly accept anything out of Trump's mouth as gospel.

PropJoe10

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

He voiced their base prejudices and they love him for it so much that some of them were happy to attempt a coup on his behalf. The GOP can't afford to lose that base now and they'll mindlessly accept anything out of Trump's mouth as gospel.

It is reminiscent of Germany and Italy in the 1930s. Total cult of personality and blind dedication to one person (especially someone like Trump) never ends well.

Gbear

demfad wrote: »

The Democrats must make crystal clear to Republicans that Trump will go down in abject disgrace with filth as his memory.....with or without them.

One only needs to see the deification of Ronald Reagan and his abysmal presidency to see how unlikely that is.

That Trump trailed many Republicans on the same ticket would suggest that there wasn't a general understanding of the way the Republican party followed Trump among those who abandoned him.

My sense of it is that Trump is seen as an anomaly, and is largely held to have been too rude or incompetent to be president, but the structures on the right that allowed him to lead the party are being allowed to get away with it, and the Republican voter base are either ignorant of the autocratic tendencies of the Republican party or actively support them.

"They're on the wrong side of history" doesn't work when that applies to nearly half the electorate.

The Democrats don't have a communication or policy platform problem (at least not in the sense that they're too liberal). They have a structural democratic problem, and it will require a long term strategy to try to dismantle the two party system to create an environment where US society can begin to progress.

Rjd2

Gbear wrote: »

One only needs to see the deification of Ronald Reagan and his abysmal presidency to see how unlikely that is.

That Trump trailed many Republicans on the same ticket would suggest that there wasn't a general understanding of the way the Republican party followed Trump among those who abandoned him.

My sense of it is that Trump is seen as an anomaly, and is largely held to have been too rude or incompetent to be president, but the structures on the right that allowed him to lead the party are being allowed to get away with it, and the Republican voter base are either ignorant of the autocratic tendencies of the Republican party or actively support them.

"They're on the wrong side of history" doesn't work when that applies to nearly half the electorate.

.

And Bush. Heck his henchmen, such as the lincoln Project, Frum, Kristol swim in money grifted of Liberals these days.

Realistically for the GOP to somehow survive without Trump is they have to offer an alternative. I have kept an eye on some of the supposed front runners for 2024 and its shambolic how little ideas they have .

Nikki Haley for example, MUH SOCIALISM, MUH LOWER TAXES,,,,its an absolute cliche at this stage. Until they come up with some ideas rather than going to the Reagan well, then Trump will have control of that party.

froog

i wonder is there one or two trump appointed bureaucrats hiding out in some backwater department that escaped the cull. months from now, there'll be some important meeting and they'll come out with something completely daft and be found out. has the makings of a good sketch.

aloyisious

Probably the only thing that could swing a senate trial vote against Trump would be a recording of something stupid he said in the White House while the Capitol attack was ongoing, relative to it's purpose and outcome. Ditto for the future of anyone who sides with him in the here and now. Trump made enough enemies during his shredding of GOP careers over the past 4 years.

Water John

aloyisious wrote: »

Probably the only thing that could swing a senate trial vote against Trump would be a recording of something stupid he said in the White House while the Capitol attack was ongoing, relative to it's purpose and outcome. Ditto for the future of anyone who sides with him in the here and now. Trump made enough enemies during his shredding of GOP careers over the past 4 years.

Nothing Trump would have said or done will have 17 GOP Senators voting for the Resolution, beyond redemption.

demfad

Gbear wrote: »

One only needs to see the deification of Ronald Reagan and his abysmal presidency to see how unlikely that is.

The difference this time is that Trump has dozens of legal, political, financial and (lets face it) treasonous skeletons in his closet.

If Trump does not face consequences via a conviction then he can face many consequences via other avenues. Trump attempted a fascistic takeover of the State. Dems must example him into the ground.

The question for Republicans is do they want every last shi**y laundry garment of Trump's flying in the wind...or might it be easier just to organize a conviction?

prawnsambo

aloyisious wrote: »

Probably the only thing that could swing a senate trial vote against Trump would be a recording of something stupid he said in the White House while the Capitol attack was ongoing, relative to it's purpose and outcome. Ditto for the future of anyone who sides with him in the here and now. Trump made enough enemies during his shredding of GOP careers over the past 4 years.

The sickening thing about that insurrection is that one capitol police officer was killed, two others have committed suicide and over 140 have been injured including brain injuries, spinal injuries, one stabbed with a fencepost and another likely to lose an eye. It's sometimes forgotten what the human cost of this was.

Itssoeasy

I see the Proud boys leader was an FBI informant. Oh I’d say there are more than a few of these lads a tad nervous this evening. If this lad was the leader it’s a good assumption to make that he knows what was happening and by who.

prawnsambo

prawnsambo wrote: »

The sickening thing about that insurrection is that one capitol police officer was killed, two others have committed suicide and over 140 have been injured including brain injuries, spinal injuries, one stabbed with a fencepost and another likely to lose an eye. It's sometimes forgotten what the human cost of this was.

Given the number of police officers arrested and under investigation for their part in the Capitol attack
https://apnews.com/article/us-police-capitol-riot-980545361a10fff982676d42b79b84ab

And the rumors that some members of the Capitol police force actually assisted the attackers, I would imagine that some are wondering who had their back on the day and if they can actually trust some of their colleagues.

Itssoeasy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I see the Proud boys leader was an FBI informant. Oh I’d say there are more than a few of these lads a tad nervous this evening. If this lad was the leader it’s a good assumption to make that he knows what was happening and by who.

Not since 2014 apparently, even at that he claims not to remember.
Not to say he wouldn't flip again. But if he was still an active and handled informant since 2014, given his activities since then the FBI might have another Whitey Bulger situation.

aloyisious

Water John wrote: »

Nothing Trump would have said or done will have 17 GOP Senators voting for the Resolution, beyond redemption.

Even if he was speaking about specific people not supporting him? He made no bones about his dislike for senators openly.

aloyisious

A DHS threat analysis of the possible actions by the militia groups stirred up by the Capitol attack has advised that politicians will be at increased risk outside Washington DC. It includes further reference to other capitols at state level. The house minority [GOP] leader McCarthy is to talk with his house members behaviour "cut that crap out" towards other GOP members. One GOP person on his chat list is Rep Taylor Greene. The thought of her sitting on the House Education committee is scary.

One thing about the GOP senate attitude to the charge against Trump could be seen as a dog-whistle to the militia groups "see, Rand Paul and Mitch are scared of us and Trump" and end up as an incentive towards more direct militia actions against national and state govt targets. They've decided to filibuster the vote on Bidens's nominee for Secretary of the DHS.

Overheal

prawnsambo wrote: »

The sickening thing about that insurrection is that one capitol police officer was killed, two others have committed suicide and over 140 have been injured including brain injuries, spinal injuries, one stabbed with a fencepost and another likely to lose an eye. It's sometimes forgotten what the human cost of this was.

Yes, but, her emails.

It's seriously sick that they can straight faced spend 4 years and a dozen investigations on one and want to not even entertain the other.

Itssoeasy

aloyisious wrote: »

A DHS threat analysis of the possible actions by the militia groups stirred up by the Capitol attack has advised that politicians will be at increased risk outside Washington DC. It includes further reference to other capitols at state level. The house minority [GOP] leader McCarthy is to talk with his house members behaviour "cut that crap out" towards other GOP members. One GOP person on his chat list is Rep Taylor Greene. The thought of her sitting on the House Education committee is scary.

One thing about the GOP senate attitude to the charge against Trump could be seen as a dog-whistle to the militia groups "see, Rand Paul and Mitch are scared of us and Trump" and end up as an incentive towards more direct militia actions against national and state govt targets. They've decided to filibuster the vote on Bidens's nominee for Secretary of the DHS.

Given her video and her social media posts and likes of other charming ones how she is still in congress I’ll never know. I mean political differences are one thing but talking about shooting members of congress and FBI agents.

I don’t know what the state of Kentucky did or who it made a deal with but it must have been a big one to have Mitch McConnell and rand Paul as your senators.

I’d say the GOP know what the trump people did in the there and don’t want the Biden people and the world to see what they did.

prawnsambo

Overheal wrote: »

Yes, but, her emails.

It's seriously sick that they can straight faced spend 4 years and a dozen investigations on one and want to not even entertain the other.

Less Americans died in Benghazi, but they spent three years trying to nail Hillary Clinton for it. Culminating with an 11 hour session questioning her. But unity. :rolleyes:

Drexel_3

I gotta admit. My daily round up of news is really missing the Trump / election stories. Along with this thread it's helped me get through these restrictions

Detritus70

Drexel_3 wrote: »

I gotta admit. My daily round up of news is really missing the Trump / election stories. Along with this thread it's helped me get through these restrictions

The only stories I'm missing is Trump arrested, charged, tried and locked up.
Other than that I don't care.
Reason being, his scumbag supporters are already complaining about Corona deaths and the fact the government doesn't have a plan.
I hope Americans remember who wore the MAGA hats and won't socialise with these people, nor give them jobs, contracts or their custom.

Itssoeasy

https://twitter.com/anacabrera/status/1354887066283339778?s=21

So seems the trump crowd aren’t going away. Al Franken and Katie hill who were both democrats stepped down after stuff came out which pre dated their time in congress which was embarrassing but not to the level of your one from Georgia who not only isn’t been forced to step down, but is getting a committee position.

StringerBell

At this point you really do simply have to accept that the GOP are exactly where they want to be as a party ideologically.

Continuing to wait for them to "snap out of it" or finally free themselves of trump seems foolish at this point.

They are what they are, I understand there are no good options really for the democrats but they would be better served imo just refusing to deal with them on these terms. McConnell s vote the other day was no shock, they do not deal in good faith. **** them for want of a better expression, they are not going to have some road to Damascus moment, they get more extreme and further to the right every year.

Gbear

StringerBell wrote: »

At this point you really do simply have to accept that the GOP are exactly where they want to be as a party ideologically.

Continuing to wait for them to "snap out of it" or finally free themselves of trump seems foolish at this point.

They are what they are, I understand there are no good options really for the democrats but they would be better served imo just refusing to deal with them on these terms. McConnell s vote the other day was no shock, they do not deal in good faith. **** them for want of a better expression, they are not going to have some road to Damascus moment, they get more extreme and further to the right every year.

What does that mean for the Democrats?

It's well and good talking about compromise when you're dealing with two legitimate political parties, but how does 1 legitimate party manage a fascist party?

I don't know that there's a huge amount of prescedent for resolving such a dilemma without resorting to war, or revolution later down the line, in the case that the fascist takeover succedes.