Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

sameoldname

Sand wrote: »

Well, the multitude disagreed with Galileo and deplatformed him. But he was right despite being in the minority.

You're no Galileo.

Sand

sameoldname wrote: »

You're no Galileo.

They said much the same to Galileo. You guys are no Catholic inquisition either, but we make do with what we have.

Professor Moriarty

Sand wrote: »

Well, the multitude disagreed with Galileo and deplatformed him. But he was right despite being in the minority.

Okay. It's a brave person who compares themselves with Galileo. We'll just have to wait and see if your theories are as brilliant as his.

sameoldname

Sand wrote: »

They said much the same to Galileo. You guys are no Catholic inquisition either, but we make do with what we have.

So apart from comparing yourself to one of the most revered men in history and telling people to stop talking about something that doesn't affect you, do you actually have anything to contribute or are you just looking to shutdown discussion?

Sand

sameoldname wrote: »

So apart from comparing yourself to one of the most revered men in history and telling people to stop talking about something that doesn't affect you, do you actually have anything to contribute or are you just looking to shutdown discussion?

I haven't shut down discussion. There was 12 posts today before I posted. Your post was the 12th since I posted an hour ago. If anything discussion has increased.

I'm just noting that any political discussion about Trump makes sense in the context of him being a defeated figure who has left office and has no political future. And that various social media content creators who have lived parasitically from outraged reacts to Trump are going to have to find a new grift. Sure, talk about the impeachment but its just the post credits scene. Trump lost.

Even Antifa are getting rolled up like a carpet now that their usefulness is at an end.

Brian?

Sand wrote: »

Well, the multitude disagreed with Galileo and deplatformed him. But he was right despite being in the minority.

Are you comparing yourself and Trump to Galileo?

He wasn't right because his opinion was correct. He was right because he stated fact. Shockingly poor comparison.

He actually wasn't in the minority either. He was in the minority in a specific small corner of the world.

Sand

Sand wrote: »

I haven't shut down discussion. There was 12 posts today before I posted. Your post was the 12th since I posted an hour ago. If anything discussion has increased.

I'm just noting that any political discussion about Trump makes sense in the context of him being a defeated figure who has left office and has no political future. And that various social media content creators who have lived parasitically from outraged reacts to Trump are going to have to find a new grift. Sure, talk about the impeachment but its just the post credits scene. Trump lost.

Even Antifa are getting rolled up like a carpet now that their usefulness is at an end.

In fairness, the Trump Presidency is only just over. There's still plenty to come out about what went on in the administration. Also an impeachment trial which you deem unnecessary but many would argue puts limits on what criminality a president gets away with. So there is still plenty to discuss.

And he might be gone but the consequences of his behaviour is likely far reaching.

Sand

Brian? wrote: »

Are you comparing yourself and Trump to Galileo?

No, I was comparing the 'multitude' to the Catholic inquisition. The basic point being the validity of an opinion isnt proven by it being in a minority, or even denounced by the great and the good.

I'd compare Trump to human sewage if anything.

He was right because he stated fact.

No, he stated a theory which was later proven to be more correct than that of his opponents.

sameoldname

Sand wrote: »

I haven't shut down discussion. There was 12 posts today before I posted. Your post was the 12th since I posted an hour ago. If anything discussion has increased.

I'm just noting that any political discussion about Trump makes sense in the context of him being a defeated figure who has left office and has no political future. And that various social media content creators who have lived parasitically from outraged reacts to Trump are going to have to find a new grift. Sure, talk about the impeachment but its just the post credits scene. Trump lost.

Even Antifa are getting rolled up like a carpet now that their usefulness is at an end.

Nearly all social media discussion is "parasitic", it's not like you're pointing out something that people don't already know.

It just seems to me that you want people to feel stupid for still talking about Trump, on a thread called the "Donald Trump discussion thread" when he only left office 3 days ago.

Brian?

Sand wrote: »

No, I was comparing the 'multitude' to the Catholic inquisition. The basic point being the validity of an opinion isnt proven by it being in a minority, or even denounced by the great and the good.

I'd compare Trump to human sewage if anything.


No, he stated a theory which was later proven to be more correct than that of his opponents.

It wasn't "more correct" than his opponents. He was completely factually correct and presented evidence to that effect.

Why did you snip out the part about him not being in the minority? He wasn't in the minority. As far back as ancient Greece there were scientists in Europe who knew the earth orbits the sun. At the time he was alive the majority of astronomers in the world agreed. Just not in his corner of Italy.

It was an awful comparison

Sand

Deleted User wrote: »

In fairness, the Trump Presidency is only just over. There's still plenty to come out about what went on in the administration.

Sure and lots of people will have been under tremendous stress during it and will take time to adjust to him being gone. But he is gone.

Also an impeachment trial which you deem unnecessary but many would argue puts limits on what criminality a president gets away with. So there is still plenty to discuss.

I wouldn't take a position on it being necessary or unnecessary as that is subjective. I disagree that it is 'a big deal'. It's not. It has no real world consequence. At best, it is a performance.

And he might be gone but the consequences of his behaviour is likely far reaching.

Doubtful - I think Biden has completely unraveled any domestic policy of Trump in just his first week. Trump was elected to be a change President, just as much as Obama was. He accomplished no change. He won power as an anti-establishment figure, but he ruled as a conventional politician.

His only lasting achievements will be moving the US-Israeli embassy and blessing the annexation of the Golan Heights. Those wont be reversed, but otherwise Trump accomplished nothing.

Sand

sameoldname wrote: »

Nearly all social media discussion is "parasitic", it's not like you're pointing out something that people don't already know.

It just seems to me that you want people to feel stupid for still talking about Trump, on a thread called the "Donald Trump discussion thread" when he only left office 3 days ago.

I responded to a poster openly wondering if he would be missed. I noted that he would be by those 'reacts' creators casting about for something to keep the show going. Dogpile ensues.

I see now the mistake was to discuss Trump on the Trump discussion thread. I'll leave you guys at it.

timsey tiger

Sand wrote: »

But he is gone.

But, McConnell has to wipe the stain of Trump from the GOP and the Dems need closure. So he needs to be buried and that's what will happen.

Everybody loves a good funeral and that is what the Senate will perform.

sameoldname

Sand wrote: »

I responded to a poster openly wondering if he would be missed. I noted that he would be by those 'reacts' creators casting about for something to keep the show going. Dogpile ensues.

I see now the mistake was to discuss Trump on the Trump discussion thread. I'll leave you guys at it.

Yes, you're the victim here.

Sand wrote:

Yet the 'Trump reacts' media like this thread continue to gasp for oxygen, performing outrage by rote with increasingly less material to justify their existence by.

That's what you said, seems pretty clear what you meant.

aloyisious

Sand wrote: »

I haven't shut down discussion. There was 12 posts today before I posted. Your post was the 12th since I posted an hour ago. If anything discussion has increased.

I'm just noting that any political discussion about Trump makes sense in the context of him being a defeated figure who has left office and has no political future. And that various social media content creators who have lived parasitically from outraged reacts to Trump are going to have to find a new grift. Sure, talk about the impeachment but its just the post credits scene. Trump lost.

Even Antifa are getting rolled up like a carpet now that their usefulness is at an end.

Do you not see that you, with your posts into our debate here, are part of what you are complaining about, enabling the debate here to continue? I would have thought that that was obvious to you.

Ref the ability of Trump to make public statements to the media [including the section which he calls the "Fake News Media"] which he knows will be ready to publish whatever he says to continue playing a hand in U.S national politics, will you then post here that he has not, as you believe, retired from the political field?

Detritus70

Dear Sand.
This is not over by a long shot.
Just because the criminal can no longer carry out his heinous acts, doesn't mean we'll forget about him.
He should be impeached this time successfully, he should be prosecuted for financial fraud and rape and he should face jail time. Any successful prosecution for collaboration with Russia I would see as a welcome bonus.
And any of his brain-dead MAGA zombies who took part in storming the Capitol should be arrested, tried and jailed.
And there is still a budding network of domestic terrorism developing in the US, this has to be uprooted and destroyed.
Trump has been far worse for the US than Pearl Harbor and 9/11. Would you have accepted these attacks and said "oh well, it's over now, forget about it"?
If someone breaks into your house and ransacks the place, is it over when they leave? Will you say "ok, he's gone, everything is good"?
If you do, you are a fool.
WWII was over in 1945, but we're looking forward to the Nürnberg Trials.

You may think that committing crimes has no consequences, but that's not how this works.

Leroy42

Sand, one of the main claims, even by Trump supporters, is that Trump isn't the cause only the reaction.

Trump may, or may not disappear, but the divisions he stoked, the entitlements he drove, the sense of betrayal and disillusionment he nurtured doesn't simply stop.

Ted Cruz recent tweet about the Paris agreement, the calls for impeachment of Biden, these are examples of things going to continue.

Trump indeed created or at least galvanised and multiplied a movement. That it is a movement based on lies, disinformation, self pity and hatred and fear and jealousy and anger and misunderstanding doesn't reduce the reality of that movement.

Moving on, letting go, forgetting etc can only happen when those involved come to terms with what they became and start the process of moving away.

Clearly people like Cruz have no intention of doing that.

Trump, as a person, was actually very ineffective. Trump brand was what sold it and held it together. MAGA is very much alive and well

Itssoeasy

https://twitter.com/msnbc/status/1352836461968691205?s=21

If this was a TV show you’d think it was too far fetched. Georgia in the news again and Lindsey Graham’s phone call to Georgia should be looked into again.

Tell me how

It's absolutely ridiculous that a direct decision should be made to stop from investigating the wrong doings of Trump, those associated with him and others in Congress.
It is looking increasingly likely that someone in Congress was communicating with some of the insurrectionists on the 6th of January and letting them know where people were located. That is not a million miles away from conspiracy to murder given what was being said by people who were actively livestreaming and posting on social media as they walked the halls.

Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz demonstrably stoked the fires of the insurrection and are still sitting members. One member is rumoured to have tried to bring a gun on to the floor of the house this past week and given the QAnon beliefs of some members it would be crazy to allow such a thing to happen.

As others have said, Trump has stoked and coralled the beliefs of a section of society in a very dangerous way. And this was based on lies and illegal activity more so than any sort of fundamental difference in ideologies or philosophies. It would be a catastrophic step to try to close the door on all these events and will only allow the perpetrators, outside of Trump, to review their notes, learn from what happened and be better prepared the next time. And that relates to either physical protesting leading to insurrection, or trying to overcome election results that did not go their way.

What happened 2 weeks ago looked like a group of white people who believed, without evidence, that the election was stolen invaded the US capitol seeking to interrupt and overturn democracy and they did so with the apparent belief that the police or army would not stop them doing so. To not hunt down everyone responsible for what led to this would be virtually guaranteeing future elections will be targeted in the same way.

Show everyone of these people, from Donald Trump right down to Kimberly Guilfoyle that those inciting insurrection based on their own lies will experience serious consequences.

wandererz

The level of pettiness is unbelievable.

"The Trumps sent the butlers home when they left so there would be no one to help the Bidens when they arrived"

Reminds me of all those memes of baby Trump throwing a tantrum.

Itssoeasy

wandererz wrote: »

The level of pettiness is unbelievable.

"The Trumps sent the butlers home when they left so there would be no one to help the Bidens when they arrived"

Reminds me of all those memes of baby Trump throwing a tantrum.

Not surprising really. Money doesn’t buy class as my grandmother used to say.

astrofool

wandererz wrote: »

The level of pettiness is unbelievable.

"The Trumps sent the butlers home when they left so there would be no one to help the Bidens when they arrived"

Reminds me of all those memes of baby Trump throwing a tantrum.

I'd imagine they were happy the place was empty for fumigation (though they seemed to be up and running very quickly).

StanHansen

I heard some rumors that Trump wants to create a new party.

Nody

StanHansen wrote: »

I heard some rumors that Trump wants to create a new party.

Yes the patriotic party; which would ensure Democrat wins in the locations they ran. Of course with him throwing his planned party members under the bus blaming them for everything and not giving a single pardon to any of them I think that the party may go down as well as most Trump ideas, i.e. lead balloon style.

Midlife

Sand is very correct in many ways though.

A lot of the media is going to keep harping on about Trump because he's a cash cow for them.

That absolutely gives him a future. The trial should happen but if he continues to be wall to wall front page stuff despite being irrelevant, then pretty quickly twitter or facebook will decide that they've changed their minds and he's back.

Many people on thi thread have spent 4 years reading with continuous horror about him. He's not relevant now, continuing reading about him is just feeding a habit you have.

Follow the trial by all means but leave the daily negativity behind. It's not relevant anymore.

amandstu

Deleted User wrote: »

In fairness, the Trump Presidency is only just over. There's still plenty to come out about what went on in the administration. Also an impeachment trial which you deem unnecessary but many would argue puts limits on what criminality a president gets away with. So there is still plenty to discuss.

And he might be gone but the consequences of his behaviour is likely far reaching.

Midlife wrote: »

Sand is very correct in many ways though.

A lot of the media is going to keep harping on about Trump because he's a cash cow for them.

That absolutely gives him a future. The trial should happen but if he continues to be wall to wall front page stuff despite being irrelevant, then pretty quickly twitter or facebook will decide that they've changed their minds and he's back.

Many people on thi thread have spent 4 years reading with continuous horror about him. He's not relevant now, continuing reading about him is just feeding a habit you have.

Follow the trial by all means but leave the daily negativity behind. It's not relevant anymore.

I think most people who disapprove of Trump's recent (and not so recent) career have worked out that it is counterproductive to dwell on all that any longer than necessary.

(It also helps that lack of notoriety for him is probably a form of punishment in itself)

But justice has to take its course and that should command our attention.

It is fairly obvious that inciting an attack on the Capitol with the selfish aim of drastically subverting the democratic process should get all the attention it deserves.

Brian?

StanHansen wrote: »

I heard some rumors that Trump wants to create a new party.

I imagine it'll go the same direction as Trump Airline, Trump Steaks, Trump University, Trump Casinos, Trump Vodka etc. .

He'll hose some chumps for money and abandon them

PapaBill

Brian? wrote: »

I imagine it'll go the same direction as Trump Airline, Trump Steaks, Trump University, Trump Casinos, Trump Vodka etc. .

He'll hose some chumps for money and abandon them

Extremism in US politics is straining both parties. Battle lines certainly drawn in Republican party. Don jr. declared the GOP Donald Trump's party. Party chairperson Ronna McDaniel is a Trump loyalist and plenty of high profile GOP lawmakers are definitely Trumpists. It could be the more moderate and Never-Trump Republicans who split off to form a new party. I hope not because I agree if Trump forms a new party it is destined for failure.

dogbert27

Trump apparently has already raised 70 million to fund his new party and is using it to threaten Senators so they will not vote to convict him.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9180909/Trump-drafting-enemies-list-Republicans-Patriot-Party-challenge-primaries.html

Essentially it's his usual bullying tactics to try to get what he wants, playing on peoples fears. I hope the senators stay strong bury his political career once and for all.

pixelburp

No new party will last without the support of lobbyists and (super) PACs to work as slush funds and power brokers. If it were true, the AOC and Sanders of this world would have already long departed the Democrate. It can't be overstated just how engrained monied interests has become in US politics, and if one thing's clear from the last 4, 5 years it's that Trump hasn't a damn clue just how astroturfed the grass roots are. Or have a damn clue in general TBH.

If his don't align with others' interests his war chest is unlikely to last long enough to make an effect. He might get a couple of wingnuts last the finish line but if Trumpism has any staying power, it won't be with him as defacto leader. Maybe. I guess, who knows at this stage.