When will it all end?

drunkmonkey

suicide_circus wrote: »

If 80% or so of the population still support total lockdown then even if click n collect, sport facilities etc opened up, these people would remain at home, right?

80% don't, that's just propaganda, notice how every politician on TV and the Radio says "the vast majority of people are sticking to the guidelines', the last thing they're going to admit is the majority aren't sticking to the guidelines.

Click and collect is farscical any non chain retailer I know will let you in the back door, a few have been reported by the curtain twitchers but the guards haven't done anything bar tell them someone reported them, keep calm and carry on.

El_Duderino 09

bucketybuck wrote: »

Careful, you might stray into the question of personal responsibility, which is an awkward question that a lot of people don't want to talk about.

...

The personal responsibility argument is awkward for those who advocate for relying on personal responsibility instead of enforcement.

The other day we had posters saying the rule which mandates quarantine for people coming from abroad through NI was stupid because it can’t be enforced. But surely we can just rely on personal responsibility. I mean, if everyone assesses the risks and decides to come here through NI, then it couldn’t be a bad thing, could it?

Likewise, lots of people assessed the risks and decided to travel to Ireland at Christmas. Others assessed the risks and decided to meet family and friends over Christmas and we had some pretty severe consequences ever since.

drunkmonkey

pjohnson wrote: »

:pac:

We're already witnessing it, the phase 4 vaccine testers already have more rights, well they don't really but the Government have spun it so they think they have. I don't recall having someone in your house or garden being against the law. It was just a recommendation.

El_Duderino 09

bucketybuck wrote: »

...
Oh I do look forward to all the wailing and crying about other social issues that we are going to be subjected to when the covid monster runs dry.

Mental health, homelessness, recessions, they are going to remember about all those things and start asking me to pay for them again.

I think my sympathy is going to be lacking. People wanted this, they can have it, don't cry to me about the consequences.

Lol. I’m suppose you had loads of sympathy for the mentally ill, the homeless and the poor pre-covid.

In fairness, the ones who have discovered their support for the mental health cause only since they realised it’s an argument against restrictions, will most likely go back to not giving a shyte about mental illness as soon as covid is over - you’ve said precisely this in the post quoted above.

You won’t have sympathy for the mentally ill, homelessness or those affected by recession. I’m sure you’ll be no huge loss to those causes.

Plumbthedepths

bucketybuck wrote: »

Careful, you might stray into the question of personal responsibility, which is an awkward question that a lot of people don't want to talk about.


Oh I do look forward to all the wailing and crying about other social issues that we are going to be subjected to when the covid monster runs dry.

Mental health, homelessness, recessions, they are going to remember about all those things and start asking me to pay for them again.

I think my sympathy is going to be lacking. People wanted this, they can have it, don't cry to me about the consequences.

That's the thing, the other issues we faced before Covid are still here and have been made worse particularly housing. Only country in Europe to stop construction. Also many construction workers have now left the country. Things will get interesting, I heard one commentator this morning, I think Ronan Lyons has said the present situation has added a possible 30 years to the housing problem.

PalLimerick

bucketybuck wrote: »

Careful, you might stray into the question of personal responsibility, which is an awkward question that a lot of people don't want to talk about.


Oh I do look forward to all the wailing and crying about other social issues that we are going to be subjected to when the covid monster runs dry.

Mental health, homelessness, recessions, they are going to remember about all those things and start asking me to pay for them again.

I think my sympathy is going to be lacking. People wanted this, they can have it, don't cry to me about the consequences.

Lol, you must be the richest Person in the World if you think People expect you to pay for this. Individual taxes are minimal, don't get confused in to thinking you personally are paying for all of this.

francogarbanzo

PalLimerick wrote: »

Lol, you must be the richest Person in the World if you think People expect you to pay for this. Individual taxes are minimal, don't get confused in to thinking you personally are paying for all of this.

Good to hear! Who’s paying instead?

JimmyVik

Im finished with this now. They had til 5th April to get rid of this lockup strategy.
I will be traveling far and wide now for a few nice walks. I dont go within 2 meters of people. I dont go into shops at all.
This 5km and even 20km is a farce. And now still stuck with 5km until middle of April.
Sorry, not doing it anymore. I was happy to stick to it until5th April, but now they'll just make something else up middle of April.
Screw that.

Plumbthedepths

People think only taxes will rise to pay for this? lol. Cuts will happen aswell. People are quick to forget the last financial crisis in the state. Last time it was the most disadvantaged in society who bore the brunt , somehow I don't think there will be a difference this time.

JimmyVik

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

People think only taxes will rise to pay for this? lol. Cuts will happen aswell. People are quick to forget the last financial crisis in the state. Last time it was the most disadvantaged in society who bore the brunt , somehow I don't think there will be a difference this time.

USCo19 Tax
More stealth taxes.
Levies.
Carbon tax



They are all taxes. Anything the government takes out of your pocket is a tax.
When politicians talk about tax they seem to think that only income tax is a tax.
But we all know the truth.

Multipass

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

People think only taxes will rise to pay for this? lol. Cuts will happen aswell. People are quick to forget the last financial crisis in the state. Last time it was the most disadvantaged in society who bore the brunt , somehow I don't think there will be a difference this time.

And the most frustrating thing is the cuts to the health service - the one we’ve destroyed the country to protect - will be devastating and cause far more deaths than Covid. As always they’ll cut services and the excessive number of pencil pushers at the top will continue to get their pay rises.

suicide_circus

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I’d say most people will play to the rules. So if click and collect etc. is allowed, they’d probably use it if they need to. What’s your point?

So we can accept that the 80% who approve of total lockdown do so, not because of it's inherent value but because it's what they've been told to do. If they thought it was unsafe, they'd stay away from click n collect shops and tennis courts even if they were allowed open.

Lundstram

Liking the idea of giving vaccines by age after the over 70s are done, cuts out a lot of moaning and whinging from certain quarters. Teachers have been at home for the majority of this and act like their some sort of Gods who should be first in line for vaccines. Very few Gardai wear masks when interacting with people and they want to skip the queue too.

Not a peep about supermarket workers on low wages who have been interacting with the public for over a year now.

Don't hear anyone calling for vaccines on their behalf.

Graham

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Anyone I know who got Covid it came from a sick person or being in an environment like a hospital, any asymptomatic person I know did not spread it to the rest of their household.

Asymptomatic = Healthy, no symptoms.

Asymptomatic does not mean they're not contagious.

The Lancet - December 2020

Our findings suggest that people with asymptomatic COVID-19 are infectious but might be less infectious than symptomatic cases.

American College of Physicians - September 2020

The likelihood that approximately 40% to 45% of those infected with SARS-CoV-2 will remain asymptomatic suggests that the virus might have greater potential than previously estimated to spread silently and deeply through human populations.
Asymptomatic persons can transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others for an extended period, perhaps longer than 14 days.

JAMA (Journal American Medical Association) - January 2021

In this decision analytical model assessing multiple scenarios for the infectious period and the proportion of transmission from individuals who never have COVID-19 symptoms, transmission from asymptomatic individuals was estimated to account for more than half of all transmission.

the kelt

Lundstram wrote: »

Liking the idea of giving vaccines by age after the over 70s are done, cuts out a lot of moaning and whinging from certain quarters. Teachers have been at home for the majority of this and act like their some sort of Gods who should be first in line for vaccines. Very few Gardai wear masks when interacting with people and they want to skip the queue too.

Not a peep about supermarket workers on low wages who have been interacting with the public for over a year now.

Don't hear anyone calling for vaccines on their behalf.

Werent Mandate and RGDATA both pushing for vaccines on their behalf lobbying Stephen Donnely to be further up the list??

Pretty much the same as every other lobby group!!

Teachers/ Gardai and ssential retail workers should be prioritised. The change to an age based system is simply a cop out.

Lundstram

the kelt wrote: »

Werent Mandate and RGDATA both pushing for vaccines on their behalf lobbying Stephen Donnely to be further up the list??

Pretty much the same as every other lobby group!!

Teachers/ Gardai and ssential retail workers should be prioritised. The change to an age based system is simply a cop out.

Never heard any Mandate or RGDATA member being interviewed on national news or radio. Never seen any front page headlines about the plight of supermarket workers, seen plenty about teachers, though.

Aren't they on two weeks holidays now? Just after going back, then they'll be off for 3 months soon. I'm sorry, but they've no right to be skipping ahead of supermarket workers.

There's no hope of supermarket workers being bumped up the queue so therefore teachers and Gardai have no right to be whinging.

The age based system we are told speeds up the process, if that's true, I'd be in favor of it.

ELM327

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

People think only taxes will rise to pay for this? lol. Cuts will happen aswell. People are quick to forget the last financial crisis in the state. Last time it was the most disadvantaged in society who bore the brunt , somehow I don't think there will be a difference this time.

No, the people who bore the brunt last time are the same that always do. The squeezed middle.

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

No, the people who bore the brunt last time are the same that always do. The squeezed middle.

yes, if we continue to default, which we are, and continually elect fiscal conservatives, financially, the middle will be the ones getting hammered, again

bucketybuck

PalLimerick wrote: »

Lol, you must be the richest Person in the World if you think People expect you to pay for this. Individual taxes are minimal, don't get confused in to thinking you personally are paying for all of this.

Sure, if you say so. I am right there in the squeezed middle, paying the higher tax rate and getting the basic tax credits, I know damn well who is going to be paying for all of this.

aido79

the kelt wrote: »

Werent Mandate and RGDATA both pushing for vaccines on their behalf lobbying Stephen Donnely to be further up the list??

Pretty much the same as every other lobby group!!

Teachers/ Gardai and ssential retail workers should be prioritised. The change to an age based system is simply a cop out.

It's about trying to minimize hospital numbers. Would you agree that a 25 year old teacher/guard has less chance of needing hospital treatment than a 69 year regardless of their profession if either contract covid19?

the kelt

Lundstram wrote: »

Never heard any Mandate or RGDATA member being interviewed on national news or radio. Never seen any front page headlines about the plight of supermarket workers, seen plenty about teachers, though.

Aren't they on two weeks holidays now? Just after going back, then they'll be off for 3 months soon. I'm sorry, but they've no right to be skipping ahead of supermarket workers.

There's no hope of supermarket workers being bumped up the queue so therefore teachers and Gardai have no right to be whinging.

The age based system we are told speeds up the process, if that's true, I'd be in favor of it.

So you dont like teachers, or their vocal unions etc, fair enough

We have been told it will speed up the process, forgive me if i remain a bit skeptical on that.

Its doesnt have to be one or the other, your attitude is well why should they be jumped up the list if other arent, so now we are in a situation where the members of thr Dail will probably be done quicker than either!

Spermarket workers, teachers and guards should be prioritised over me for example. All 3 are working in far more risky situations than i am and the same goes for plenty of others workers like me

Yet i will be vaccinated ahead of many of them.

But sure if it stick one to the teachers for whinging then, cool!! Thats all that matters

Lundstram

the kelt wrote: »

So you dont like teachers, or their vocal unions etc, fair enough

We have been told it will speed up the process, forgive me if i remain a bit skeptical on that.

Its doesnt have to be one or the other, your attitude is well why should they be jumped up the list if other arent, so now we are in a situation where the members of thr Dail will probably be done quicker than either!

Spermarket workers, teachers and guards should be prioritised over me for example. All 3 are working in far more risky situations than i am and the same goes for plenty of others workers like me

Yet i will be vaccinated ahead of many of them.

But sure if it stick one to the teachers for whinging then, cool!! Thats all that matters

What I'm saying is if supermarket workers aren't prioritised (which they won't be as there's too many of them and too hard to manage) then teachers and Gardai should not be either. Do you understand that?

My opinion on teachers or their unions matters little.

the kelt

aido79 wrote: »

It's about trying to minimize hospital numbers. Would you agree that a 25 year old teacher/guard has less chance of needing hospital treatment than a 69 year regardless of their profession if either contract covid19?

But a 69 year old was being prioritized anyway! As should be the case.

Ill be vaccinated ahead of vast swathes of supermarket workers, teachers and Guards who face far more riskier work place envrionments than i do.

ELM327

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yes, if we continue to default, which we are, and continually elect fiscal conservatives, financially, the middle will be the ones getting hammered, again

We are not and have never defaulted.
If FF/FG/GP or any of their constituent parts are fiscally conservative then I'm marilyn monroe

KaneToad

I can see the problems when trying to identify which groups of workers are most at risk due to their interactions with people.

The effort spent in isolating and targeting specific groups might be better spent in ploughing ahead with age related targeting.

All of these groups who have frequent interaction with others make good cases for their respective vaccinations. It's putting them into a hierarchy that is the tricky part.

Wanderer78

ELM327 wrote: »

We are not and have never defaulted.
If FF/FG/GP or any of their constituent parts are fiscally conservative then I'm marilyn monroe

patience there, wait till covid moves on, it ll be the usual, living beyond our means, its time to balance..... and blah, blah, blah!

aido79

the kelt wrote: »

But a 69 year old was being prioritized anyway! As should be the case.

Ill be vaccinated ahead of vast swathes of supermarket workers, teachers and Guards who face far more riskier work place envrionments than i do.

Ok possibly a bad example. I should have said a 64 year old as they were previously in the same group as a 16 year old.
It a catch 22 situation. Every time you push one group up the prioritsation list you push another group down the list. But going by statistics the older a person is the higher their chance of ending up in hospital is. But on the other side of the argument I can also see a reason for vaccinating people who are more likely to come into contact with more people as it reduces the spread of the virus.

El_Duderino 09

suicide_circus wrote: »

So we can accept that the 80% who approve of total lockdown do so, not because of it's inherent value but because it's what they've been told to do. If they thought it was unsafe, they'd stay away from click n collect shops and tennis courts even if they were allowed open.

That’s not the necessary conclusion. I think it’s just human nature to tend towards playing to the rules of law and social norms.

We live in such a strange world now. People are outraged that 30 people in Essex went to Tesco without masks...

We got through the whole first wave without masks. Nobody wore the things before they were made mandatory.

Plumbthedepths

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We live in such a strange world now. People are outraged that 30 people in Essex went to Tesco without masks...

We got through the whole first wave without masks. Nobody wore the things before they were made mandatory.

You had Dublin live describing a scene of people sitting out in a park as shameful......some have lost the plot tbh.