Schools closed until March/April? (part 4) **Mod warning in OP 22/01**

khalessi

Dr. Gabriel Scally on NewsTalk doesn't think school will reopen due to getting children to school, children not at risk but transmissions between children in school going home and back into schools again. Time should be spent getting more space, community halls etc and addressing ventilation by putting in windows that open properly as a couple of suggestions, aslo spoke about long Covid and trying to avoid it.

wirelessdude01

khalessi wrote: »

Dr. Gabriel Scally on NewsTalk doesn't think school will reopen due to getting children to school, children not at risk but transmissions between children in school going home and back into schools again. Time should be spent getting more space, community halls etc and addressing ventilation by putting in windows that open properly as a couple of suggestions, aslo spoke about long Covid and trying to avoid it.

Maybe the marquees spokesperson can re-enter the thread again so with that solution

redmgar

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Is that the cases they 'test' or a figure which is somewhat realistic?

I meant confirmed cases announced, I think in the modelling numbers they said around 800 a day by that stage. If that it is the case then there is no doubt that they will be back in school on February first.

I am sure that there will be push back against this, but keeping schools open seems a priority to this government.

jimmytwotimes 2013

redmgar wrote: »

I meant confirmed cases announced, I think in the modelling numbers they said around 800 a day by that stage. If that it is the case then there is no doubt that they will be back in school on February first.

I am sure that there will be push back against this, but keeping schools open seems a priority to this government.

Wud ICU numbers be more relevant?

If they're maxed out and private beds are being used I can't see things being relaxed for another month beyond what's planned

Baggly

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Maybe the marquees spokesperson can re-enter the thread again so with that solution

Mod

Dont post in this thread again.

redmgar

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Wud ICU numbers be more relevant?

If they're maxed out and private beds are being used I can't see things being relaxed for another month beyond what's planned

I don't see why they would, people in ICU at the moment would have contracted the virus maybe three weeks ago. So if the daily cases are at a relatively low level come February then I don't see that as a barrier.

Mrsmum

redmgar wrote: »

I don't see why they would, people in ICU at the moment would have contracted the virus maybe three weeks ago. So if the daily cases are at a relatively low level come February then I don't see that as a barrier.

My money is on a return after the midterm.

Smacruairi

Lillyfae wrote: »

Ya not really, as referenced by people here so schools take a week for Feb mid term and some less so they have a couple of days to play around with during the year. It's no different to what I said, although I used the wrong circular. It just seems that some people here love a good scoff so will take any opportunity to have one, even if it's a repetitive waste of letters and thread pages. Some pages here every second post is a scoff. "Mehole" "Optics" etc etc are words I would happily never see again. Quite telling.

Nonetheless, it is a different year this year so differences are to be expected. Are the extra 2/3 days holidays going to be pulled from somewhere else? Some schools even used another 2 days this week for training and preparation, right? Where do those days come from?

What was unclear? The circulars you posted, and all other information provided illustrated that days can only be taken from Easter holidays when declared as basically force majeure days, such as during the great snow of 2010.

This didn't happen at Christmas, Norma explicitly said they were extended holidays. Doesn't matter your interpretation,and your point about people using "mehole" I really don't think is relevant at all. The school holidays were extended by 3 days. They were never asked to be made up. Pretty much end of discussion really unless you have another circular you can point to which states that the DES can randomly assign extra holidays one day and then take them back another.

jimmytwotimes 2013

redmgar wrote: »

I don't see why they would, people in ICU at the moment would have contracted the virus maybe three weeks ago. So if the daily cases are at a relatively low level come February then I don't see that as a barrier.

The projection is ICU numbers will rise in the coming weeks.

Catch covid today, likely to hit trouble 10ish days later.

Peak expected in 2 wks which is when they'd reopen schools.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0111/1189029-covid-nphet-briefing/

khalessi

As an aside I put this in other thread but know a lot of parents look here adn not there
Just something nice for children who like marine life

https://www.national-aquarium.co.uk/learning-at-the-aquarium/home-learning-sessions/

https://twitter.com/DevlinJulieanne/status/1349473006716932103

Lillyfae

Smacruairi wrote: »

What was unclear? The circulars you posted, and all other information provided illustrated that days can only be taken from Easter holidays when declared as basically force majeure days, such as during the great snow of 2010.

This didn't happen at Christmas, Norma explicitly said they were extended holidays. Doesn't matter your interpretation,and your point about people using "mehole" I really don't think is relevant at all. The school holidays were extended by 3 days. They were never asked to be made up. Pretty much end of discussion really unless you have another circular you can point to which states that the DES can randomly assign extra holidays one day and then take them back another.

So how is it that some schools have shorter February mid terms then? Or Easter? What do they do with those days?

jimmytwotimes 2013

Lillyfae wrote: »

So how is it that some schools have shorter February mid terms then? Or Easter? What do they do with those days?

Some schools take three days for midterm in order to break earlier for the summer.

The same principle wud apply here. Take 2 days from the midterm to leave them with a long weekend for midterm.

Contingency days
2 days midterm
3 days from Easter

Doesn't apply here as Minister extended holiday

Smacruairi

Lillyfae wrote: »

So how is it that some schools have shorter February mid terms then? Or Easter? What do they do with those days?

It was explained at length in the previous thread. If you wish more clarification, you can dm me. It is also explained by a poster below. It really can't be put any clearer for you at this stage and is massively derailing a thread for others.

Lillyfae

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Some schools take a three day midterm in order to break earlier for the summer.

The same principle wud apply here. Take 2 days from the midterm to leave them with a long weekend for midterm.

Contingency days
2 days midterm
3 days from Easter

Doesn't apply here as Minister extended holiday

That's fair enough but my point still stands. There is a little bit of flexibility and autonomy with regard to the school calendar.

Smacruairi

Lillyfae wrote: »

That's fair enough but my point still stands. There is a little bit of flexibility and autonomy with regard to the school calendar.

Yes, the previous year. Not during it, amd certainly not when a minister extends the holidays. You can dm me if you need more information so that you understand and that new posters to this thread aren't confused.

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

That's fair enough but my point still stands. There is a little bit of flexibility and autonomy with regard to the school calendar.

This was all explained to you before, calendar has to be set before school year starts so is generally put in motion April before. You go the circular wrong as you said so lets not go round in circles.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Lillyfae wrote: »

That's fair enough but my point still stands. There is a little bit of flexibility and autonomy with regard to the school calendar.

Dept removed autonomy years ago.

Some schools did meetings last Thursday and Friday. Some schools opened to allow book collection. These don't count as days worked either so cuts both ways as regards the calendar

The HorsesMouth

khalessi wrote: »

Dr. Gabriel Scally on NewsTalk doesn't think school will reopen due to getting children to school, children not at risk but transmissions between children in school going home and back into schools again. Time should be spent getting more space, community halls etc and addressing ventilation by putting in windows that open properly as a couple of suggestions, aslo spoke about long Covid and trying to avoid it.

:rolleyes: they were talking about this last April and it didn't happen, it's not going to happen now! We sent children back to school in September with none of this we are hardly going to start doing it during the rollout of the vaccine.

khalessi

The HorsesMouth wrote: »

:rolleyes: they were talking about this last April and it didn't happen, it's not going to happen now! We sent children back to school in September with none of this we are hardly going to start doing it during the rollout of the vaccine.

Well ventilation last April, wasnt realised to be as important and to the fore as it is now. It is good it is being mentioned. I dont see them changing windows when they cut the cleaning budget. They were reticent enough last summer to put any money into schools, you could nearly hear the colective groan as they handed it over for cleaning products, screeens etc.

They could put money into it and put a team in after hours each day in a school to changes the windows, but not a goer for many reasons, one being the shortsightedness of the DES

redmgar

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

The projection is ICU numbers will rise in the coming weeks.

Catch covid today, likely to hit trouble 10ish days later.

Peak expected in 2 wks which is when they'd reopen schools.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0111/1189029-covid-nphet-briefing/

The people who may contract the virus when schools reopen would not end up in ICU for a further two weeks, so by that stage the ICU numbers would have decreased.

jimmytwotimes 2013

redmgar wrote: »

The people who may contract the virus when schools reopen would not end up in ICU for a further two weeks, so by that stage the ICU numbers would have decreased.

Really? Like the optimism.

If we're 2 weeks from peak now, those cases wud be two weeks after peak then.

Places jammed now, will be jammed then

mirrorwall14

Things that could not be planned for in advance

Adjusting all classes and curriculums to be delivered online instead of in the classroom. This is huge and takes hours and hours. It’s a totally different teaching and learning environment and because it’s a different time of year to last year I’d guess the vast majority of teachers are at different points in the curriculum so reusing resources isn’t easy. Nobody could have physically had the time to plan parallel classes all year long

Dealing with the hundreds of ICT issues (I do not exaggerate) which weren’t urgent when we were in the classroom but are now immediate problems. For example 350 odd parents in my school suddenly decided they needed guardian summaries for google classroom despite not availing of it before. How to collect and verify this data had to be agreed. Then it had to be collected. Now it has to be input.

Dealing with the events that were scheduled for the next few weeks in school. What can be moved online (picking subjects for LC) and what can be rescheduled (field trips?)? What do we do with the mocks? One of the main companies pulled the plug this week.

Dealing with students and teachers who are sick right now.

Dealing with and attempting to reassure parents and students who have wildly varied opinions on what is necessary and whether schools should be open. The manpower alone to simply respond to emails in our school this week was enormous. The fact that there has been zero information from the State Exams Commission as to how they will deal with content after this closure is not helping, nor is the absolute bull**** our minister is coming out with

And that’s just what I can think of off the top of my head. We were well prepared

This thread had become a relatively good place to read and for helping each other. Unfortunately it’s turned back into a ‘it’s all teachers and their unions fault’ so it’s time to unsubscribe again.

redmgar

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Really? Like the optimism.

If we're 2 weeks from peak now, those cases wud be two weeks after peak then.

Places jammed now, will be jammed then

We are two weeks from ICU peak.
We are already passed the peak of new cases.

jimmytwotimes 2013

redmgar wrote: »

We are two weeks from ICU peak.
We are already passed the peak of new cases.

It's a curve, not a cliff

If ICU numbers are this way now

Peak in 2 weeks

Numbers same as now in 4 weeks (opposite side of curve to now), simple

Responder XY

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/risk-school-the-thought-terrified-me-how-could-norma-foley-even-consider-it-1.4456425

These type of stories make me so mad. Young people who want to do the right thing and are being guilt tripped into damaging their own lives due to the wider inadequacies of our system. This was forgivable back in March/April when we hadn't time to prepare. It isn't now.

Wider society and government has an absolute responsibility to our children and young people to ensure that education continues and to provide reassurance to young people that it's OK for their needs to be prioritised. 

Ultimately as kids are very unlikely to be harmed by Covid, but very likely to be harmed by interrupting their education, it needs to be recognised that even if covid isn't fully under control Children and young people need to be prioritised and Schools open. Government and teachers are setting such a poor example here by putting the needs of others ahead of children.

Whiplash85

I can only surmise (as a non teacher) that anyone in any other profession who believes that teachers should be back in schools teaching 30 kids in a building most likely constructed a 100 years ago in many cases is most likely of that belief for selfish reasons. I think every provision should be made to have kids back in school but not at the moment or in the short term. A lot of teachers live at home with elderly parents because lets face it they are not compensated like other professions and so would be putting those at risk. You could argue that healthcare staff have to work but many of them have been given a first round of vaccine now so will have some protection over the next week or so. Teachers are arguably working much longer hours now than ever before and have to be a lightning rod for many parental queries, IT issues, resource issues, logistical issues etc. I doubt some people who are critical would take it on if they were given all the tea in China.

SAMTALK

Responder XY wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/risk-school-the-thought-terrified-me-how-could-norma-foley-even-consider-it-1.4456425

These type of stories make me so mad. Young people who want to do the right thing and are being guilt tripped into damaging their own lives due to the wider inadequacies of our system. This was forgivable back in March/April when we hadn't time to prepare. It isn't now.

Wider society and government has an absolute responsibility to our children and young people to ensure that education continues and to provide reassurance to young people that it's OK for their needs to be prioritised. 

Ultimately as kids are very unlikely to be harmed by Covid, but very likely to be harmed by interrupting their education, it needs to be recognised that even if covid isn't fully under control Children and young people need to be prioritised and Schools open. Government and teachers are setting such a poor example here by putting the needs of others ahead of children.

But what about the staff ?


Yes schools need to re open but with the new variants teachers / SNA's etc need to be protected as well

Necro

Mod:

SpacialNeeds, don't post in this thread again. If you have an issue with moderation PM the mods or start a thread in the Help Desk, do not derail a thread questioning mod actions on thread or throwing around petty insults

JimmyVik

khalessi wrote: »

This was all explained to you before, calendar has to be set before school year starts so is generally put in motion April before. You go the circular wrong as you said so lets not go round in circles.

I remember those pages of this thread. It was like doing my 12 time tables over and over reading it. I actually got it in the first post, but it seemed others didnt get it at all and people were explaining it to them for days.
Please. not again

DSN

Back on point! The 1st year doing ok having a lot of his classes online handing in some shape of work & interacting with teachers & classmates in group chats & so on. On the first day all the class had made a pact to have their led lights flashing on the call (all got led strip lights for their rooms - big trend!) I made him turn them off when I saw, as did the teacher I could hear her bemused at first (poor teacher!!)
The 5th class teacher great, doing recorded videos, posting daily work, zoom call tomorrow. But my daughter as per last time just not into it, SO hard to motivate her without meltdowns. She gets her work 'done' in 30mins but its half assed but then in tears when we correct it. The teacher being nice says dont push them but she fell behind last year (was getting extra maths help last term).
The 4 year old well she's now old enough to say 'mammy or daddy you never play with me, it's boring, stop working' so the guilt piles on!
And breathe - least am off tomorrow can focus on kids more (Tho the 11 yr old would really rather I didnt!)