Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

Frank Bullitt

BrentMused wrote: »

Hamilton would be mental to walk away now.

He's as fit as a fiddle, shows no sign of slowing down, is making a fortune and, whilst I know we all thought this about Schumacher's records, he could realistically set records that will never come close to even being matched in our lifetimes by the time all is said and done.

It's unfortunate from an enjoyment point of view as a fan, but he should keep going and try to hit the 10 WDC's IMO. Number 8 is all but in the bag this year and 2 more at least is very realistic.

It would be a cool way to go out by getting into double figures.

It would probably kill off the sport if that were to happen, IMO. It is already rupturing viewers (despite having more platforms to broadcast to).

Hopefully this season is still close, couldn't fault him for winning it this year if it stays that way. But if it were to just be like last year (or the YEARS before that), the casual fan will lose interest more so. I even find it hard to justify paying for F1 TV, I even watch old races to take the sting out of it.

I also don't want to write off this year just yet, still 19 races to go.

MadYaker

I watched avidly in 00s and then I tuned out when I went to college. I’ll continue to watch the next few races but if Hamilton has it wrapped up after another race or two I’m done and I probably won’t come back.

Inquitus

BrentMused wrote: »

Hamilton would be mental to walk away now.

He's as fit as a fiddle, shows no sign of slowing down, is making a fortune and, whilst I know we all thought this about Schumacher's records, he could realistically set records that will never come close to even being matched in our lifetimes by the time all is said and done.

It's unfortunate from an enjoyment point of view as a fan, but he should keep going and try to hit the 10 WDC's IMO. Number 8 is all but in the bag this year and 2 more at least is very realistic.

It would be a cool way to go out by getting into double figures.

The rule changes next year are clearly going to make or break a lot of teams, Red Bull seem to be in a good position engine wise, the Honda is on a par with the Merc unit, and Merc have had their wings clipped substantially with regard to how much time and money they can spend on the 2022 car while trying to stay relevant to the 2021 title(s) race(s).

This is the biggest change in rules in forever and good as Merc are there is a pretty decent chance they will not have the best car in 2022.

Santan

It's 9 seasons now with Mercedes dominance I really can't see them not being the leading team next year. We must be in the 6th year of hearing for the first 6 or 7 races, how they don't have the fastest car, if it's not Ferrari its red bull, and it's all just bull, with Mercedes just sand bagging when ever they want. Has any other team in a sport dominated in this manner?

Inquitus

Santan wrote: »

It's 9 seasons now with Mercedes dominance I really can't see them not being the leading team next year. We must be in the 6th year of hearing for the first 6 or 7 races, how they don't have the fastest car, if it's not Ferrari its red bull, and it's all just bull, with Mercedes just sand bagging when ever they want. Has any other team in a sport dominated in this manner?

No this is the most dominant back to back effort in history, but the rule changes are huge and every team has an opportunity to interpret them and come up with the best design. This is the biggest overhaul of the rules in the history of the sport, so it is definitely a massive chance for all the teams to overhaul Mercedes, if Mercedes come out of it on top again it is simply because they are better than everyone else and have the best people, you can't look at it any other way. At the same time they are being nobbled by the budget cap and penalised for their success by having less wind tunnel and computer CFD time.

Inquitus

Inquitus wrote: »

No this is the most dominant back to back effort in history, but the rule changes are huge and every team has an opportunity to interpret them and come up with the best design. This is the biggest overhaul of the rules in the history of the sport, so it is definitely a massive chance for all the teams to overhaul Mercedes, if Mercedes come out of it on top again it is simply because they are better than everyone else and have the best people, you can't look at it any other way. At the same time they are being nobbled by the budget cap and penalised for their success by having less wind tunnel and computer CFD time.

Is it though? The relative static-ness of the last 8 years means a proper change is long overdue.
Plus the engines aren't really changing so I don't think it can be the biggest change ever. Odds are there'll be a surprise near the top and a surprise near the back which will revert to normal towards the end of the season. Merc will still have their baked-in engine advantage and there's always a chance they'll have a mis-step next season but I'd be amazed if they're not right back near the front by the time 2023 rolls around.

Frank Bullitt

Santan wrote: »

It's 9 seasons now with Mercedes dominance I really can't see them not being the leading team next year. We must be in the 6th year of hearing for the first 6 or 7 races, how they don't have the fastest car, if it's not Ferrari its red bull, and it's all just bull, with Mercedes just sand bagging when ever they want. Has any other team in a sport dominated in this manner?

One of the main reasons for their dominance though was their serious push to get F1 using tech they had a head start on. I have posted about it before, their insistence on hybrid tech set them up well for the rule changes, along with getting the right people so early for chassis/PU integration.

For next year, it is more of a blank slate for all the teams with the rules. No one team have pushed for these and we will also have an engine freeze to go on top of that. Cards aren't stacked against Merc at all but they are equal along the grid, we also have the budget cap as a factor.

They are still a massively powerful team, I see 2022 though as being a big test for them with not having the clear advantage they have enjoyed for so long.

TCP/IP

I reckon Merc have being working full steam ahead on next years rule changed car for years. They are just sand bagging again and this talk that Honda have a better PU is rubbish Mercedes is turning the engine only up to what it needs.

Dont be at yourself

It's fair to say all of Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari have been working on the new rules for a long time, but there's nothing to say that one will be better placed than the other. Mercedes have the slight engine advantage, Red Bull have Adrian Newey and a much improved Honda PU, and Ferrari have the benefit of extra CFD and wind tunnel time and no compulsion to develop this year's car. McLaren and Alpine will both be throwing the kitchen sink at it too. I think it's very likely that one team will bring a unique interpretation of the rules that will give them an edge, but it's a toss-up who that will be, and how quickly the others will catch-up.

Santan

The timing might really suit Mercedes for the big rule changes in 2025, finish 2024 as champions and complete 10 years, or 11 seasons with complete and utter dominance and success, and then as the rumour has it sell the team but continue the engine partnership. I mean as far as a marketing strategy for their road car division, jesus I will buy an electric Mercedes now based on all this, I think it's a win win for Mercedes it's a nice easy out as I can't see them wanting to be like Ferrari and competing for the next 50 years

Frank Bullitt

TCP/IP wrote: »

I reckon Merc have being working full steam ahead on next years rule changed car for years. They are just sand bagging again and this talk that Honda have a better PU is rubbish Mercedes is turning the engine only up to what it needs.

All teams were banned from April 2020 on developing for 2021, so they would have had to had a lot done before then or kicked into gear at the start of this year.

This is why Haas and Alpine aren't really doing much on their car this year.

rock22

Santan wrote: »

....
sell the team but continue the engine partnership. ..

How much of the team do Mercedes still own?

I think the engine supply is a different company to the F1 team company, Mercedes Powertrain or something similar

El_Duderino 09

TCP/IP wrote: »

I reckon Merc have being working full steam ahead on next years rule changed car for years. They are just sand bagging again and this talk that Honda have a better PU is rubbish Mercedes is turning the engine only up to what it needs.

I don't think Mercedes is sandbagging this year. I think they're the fastest car this year but I think they're going flat out to achieve it.

If you take the AM as a reference point. Last year the AM Pink Mercedes (the previous season mercedes) was the second fastest car at the start of the season. It fell back as others developed and covid delayed the season to let others catch up. But this year the green Mercedes is way down the pecking order.

I really think the aero changes have slowed the Mercedes and AM more than the rest of the field. I really don't think Mercedes are sandbagging this year.

Joeface

Just the head line on Autosport

"FIA to introduce new tests to clamp down on 'bendy wings'"

ha so they were doing something .

duploelabs

Joeface wrote: »

Just the head line on Autosport

"FIA to introduce new tests to clamp down on 'bendy wings'"

ha so they were doing something .

Bendy wings have been around for years

Joeface

yeah but Mercedes didn't complain until the weekend

klose

TCP/IP wrote: »

I reckon Merc have being working full steam ahead on next years rule changed car for years. They are just sand bagging again and this talk that Honda have a better PU is rubbish Mercedes is turning the engine only up to what it needs.

I don't see what benefit there is to sandbagging in the last year of regulations?

klose

TCP/IP wrote: »

I reckon Merc have being working full steam ahead on next years rule changed car for years. They are just sand bagging again and this talk that Honda have a better PU is rubbish Mercedes is turning the engine only up to what it needs.

I don't see what benefit there is to sandbagging in the last year of regulations?

TheQ_Man

The Sky Sports F1 news feed is predominantly a fúcking shrine to Hamilton. :mad:

Captain_Crash

TheQ_Man wrote: »

The Sky Sports F1 news feed is predominantly fúcking shrine to Hamilton. :mad:

This is what annoys me most about Sky’s coverage over all.... the constant wan*ing over LH! I can imagine Brundle now, “So Lewis, that overtake of the blue Ford Transit on the M25 last Tuesday was just genius.... when did you realise the move was on”... to paraphrase Eamonn Dunphy, it’s the closest you’ll get to two men having s*x on TV

He’s a great driver make no mistake, but let’s call a spade a spade, that Merc is so dominant that there are 5 or 6 drivers on the grid you could put into it and they’d also have 7 WDC’s! Even Russel as a rookie would have won in it was it not for a f**ked up pit stop!

flazio

Joeface wrote: »

yeah but Mercedes didn't complain until the weekend

Yeah, and neither did anyone else. Remember what happened with the DAS system?

TheQ_Man

Captain_Crash wrote: »

This is what annoys me most about Sky’s coverage over all.... the constant wan*ing over LH! I can imagine Brundle now, “So Lewis, that overtake of the blue Ford Transit on the M25 last Tuesday was just genius.... when did you realise the move was on”... to paraphrase Eamonn Dunphy, it’s the closest you’ll get to two men having s*x on TV

He’s a great driver make no mistake, but let’s call a spade a spade, that Merc is so dominant that there are 5 or 6 drivers on the grid you could put into it and they’d also have 7 WDC’s! Even Russel as a rookie would have won in it was it not for a f**ked up pit stop!

When Russell jumped in that Merc and did what he did it was enough proof for me. Even Nikita Mazepin would win in it, and that’s a bold statement

The FIA and Bernie Ecclestone stepped in and stopped Ferrari’s dominance after 5 seasons, other methods were tried in between. We are now into season 8 with Merc, but the FIA and Ross Brawn won’t intervene. Why? in my opinion because of 3 things. Hamilton himself being British. Brixworth & Brackley. A German company with a huge British background. The hybrid turbo era stopped red bull. Mercedes were prepared to walk if naturally aspirated engines remained. Even if so Vettel would not have been allowed dominate as long as this

mickdw

The teams are way ahead of the testers in terms of designing the bendy wings.
They would really need to be testing them with airflow over the wing because the teams are designing around these static load tests.

Top Dog

rock22 wrote: »

How much of the team do Mercedes still own?

The team is owned equally by Mercedes, Toto and Ineos- with each having a 33% stake

Santan

Top Dog wrote: »

The team is owned equally by Mercedes, Toto and Ineos- with each having a 33% stake

And if you are to believe some of the stories, Hamilton was stalling on contracts last year as he wants a share of the team. I wonder if this new contract gives him this now, probably never really know the full truth of it

AMKC

TheQ_Man wrote: »

When Russell jumped in that Merc and did what he did it was enough proof for me. Even Nikita Mazepin would win in it, and that’s a bold statement

The FIA and Bernie Ecclestone stepped in and stopped Ferrari’s dominance after 5 seasons, other methods were tried in between. We are now into season 8 with Merc, but the FIA and Ross Brawn won’t intervene. Why? in my opinion because of 3 things. Hamilton himself being British. Brixworth & Brackley. A German company with a huge British background. The hybrid turbo era stopped red bull. Mercedes were prepared to walk if naturally aspirated engines remained. Even if so Vettel would not have been allowed dominate as long as this

Kind of ironic really that Mercedes wanted more expensive and complicated not less complicated engines if it was going to remain in the sport.
I suppose because they already had a head start on them and had already started work on there Power units they knew they would be ahead of all the other teams so they did not really care.

Frank Bullitt

TheQ_Man wrote: »

The Sky Sports F1 news feed is predominantly a fúcking shrine to Hamilton. :mad:

There was a comment during the race where Corft said something along the lines of "We in the commentary box don't care who wins, as long as there is good racing".

I think my neighbours heard me laugh at that one.

Santan

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

There was a comment during the race where Corft said something along the lines of "We in the commentary box don't care who wins, as long as there is good racing".

I think my neighbours heard me laugh at that one.

Or the one where they said about Hamilton being the reason that the merc is so good but it's the car allowing max to be in a position he shouldn't be in, I wish I had the clip of it but my mouth just dropped open, I'm still not sure i didn't imagine it

Frank Bullitt

Santan wrote: »

Or the one where they said about Hamilton being the reason that the merc is so good but it's the car allowing max to be in a position he shouldn't be in, I wish I had the clip of it but my mouth just dropped open, I'm still not sure i didn't imagine it

That is basically the British media in a nutshell.

Schumacher was only successful because of the car, Hamilton is because be is great.

Give...me...a...break.

Frank Bullitt

https://streamable.com/6xb9xv

So this is a video of the rear wing flex that Merc complained about in relation to RB. It does move, but they all do under load. It has passed the tests so maybe the FIA will have to change the test in order for it to be illegal.