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Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

Cork Trucker

This is the official Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread

Any posts that should be in the race weekend threads that are posted in here will get deleted without warning

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Top Dog

Well this is potentially very depressing if true - https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-two-year-mercedes-contract-extension/

El_Duderino 09

Top Dog wrote: »

Well this is potentially very depressing if true - https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-two-year-mercedes-contract-extension/

That's very disappointing. And it's strange to want the best driver to leave the sport. The problem is that they won't let him have any competition. Keeping Russell in reserve in case he's good enough to challenge Hamilton is so cowardly and it's such a disappointment to the fans who just want to see close racing.

I imagine it's like being a boxing fan and watching the top boxers take easy fights and do everything they can to avoid having to fight another top boxer.

And Russell is presumably only hanging around at Williams banking that he'll step in when Hamilton retires and win championships unchallenged too. Otherwise he'd be off trying to forge a career for himself at a serious team.

eviltimeban

It would be great if Russell came in and challenged Hamilton; Lewis might be up for it, I mean once he's wrapped up the 8th title, what else is there for him to achieve? An easy 9th title? Round it up to 10?

On the other hand, Merc don't want a repeat of Hamilton / Rosberg, even though for F1 fans it was great to have a real rivalry with a great back story (old friends, etc).

Unless Merc pull out and Hamilton sticks around for whatever Merc becomes.

Dont be at yourself

There’s no guarantee that Mercedes come out ahead with the new regs next year. My feeling is that all of Max, Hamilton and Leclerc will be looking to jump into the best car for 2023.

[Deleted User]

Engines are staying the same next year aren't they? Straight away that gives Merc a default advantage or at the very least means they'll be near the top after a season or so.

flazio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Engines are staying the same next year aren't they? Straight away that gives Merc a default advantage or at the very least means they'll be near the top after a season or so.

Yeah but 5 people who worked on that are moving to work on the Hond Bull or whatever that power unit is going to be called.

muckwarrior

flazio wrote: »

Yeah but 5 people who worked on that are moving to work on the Hond Bull or whatever that power unit is going to be called.

5 out of 900.

Hijpo

muckwarrior wrote: »

5 out of 900.

Any idea what level or area they came from?

muckwarrior

Hijpo wrote: »

Any idea what level or area they came from?

Toto said they were "mostly from manufacturing", which was probably a bit dismissive as some of them sounded reasonably senior.

Edit: found the article https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolff-red-bull-poaching-could-be-good-for-mercedes/6505436/

El_Duderino 09

muckwarrior wrote: »

5 out of 900.

Yeah I was wondering where the rest of the staff are coming from. Presumably they will poach lots of the original Honda people. They are out of a job now but they were probably based in Japan so they will surely need to source a lot of local people to make it work. But i also presume they have been poaching people of all grades from the other engine programmes (f1. The 5 top Mercedes people will make headlines but the lower grade people are probably moving around regularly enough.

I'm really just hoping that they make a good go of it and can compete with Mercedes into the future.

MadYaker

I thought it was odd that lewis only signed a 12 month extension last time around. Maybe he was waiting to see which way the wind was blowing with the new regulation changes and if mercedes still looked they'd still be the dominant team. It it depressing though, and ultimately damaging for the sport.

Anjobe

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah I was wondering where the rest of the staff are coming from. Presumably they will poach lots of the original Honda people. They are out of a job now but they were probably based in Japan so they will surely need to source a lot of local people to make it work. But i also presume they have been poaching people of all grades from the other engine programmes (f1. The 5 top Mercedes people will make headlines but the lower grade people are probably moving around regularly enough.

I'm really just hoping that they make a good go of it and can compete with Mercedes into the future.

Honda's F1 engine factory is in Milton Keynes, same as the RBR factory, so it would only be a short move across town for any existing Honda staff.

Anjobe

MadYaker wrote: »

It it depressing though, and ultimately damaging for the sport.

Why? Would it really better for Hamilton to leave and let Max win the next 7 championships?

El_Duderino 09

Anjobe wrote: »

Honda's F1 engine factory is in Milton Keynes, same as the RBR factory, so it would only be a short move across town for any existing Honda staff.

Oh, was the Honda engine programme based in England? I just presumed it was based in Japan.

pjohnson

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Oh, was the Honda engine programme based in England? I just presumed it was based in Japan.

They've had an English base since they had their own F1 team in 06.

Anjobe

pjohnson wrote: »

They've had an English base since they had their own F1 team in 06.

Well, their old factory in Brackley is now Mercedes F1 of course. The engine program is split between Japan and UK but they have had a facility in Milton Keynes since 2018 or so.

AMKC

Anjobe wrote: »

Why? Would it really better for Hamilton to leave and let Max win the next 7 championships?

How do you Max would win the next 7 championships if Hamilton left?
We could have Max v George Russel in the Mercedes so while it might be a bit easier for Max I thought it would be all Max way unless Mercedes left too. I don't think my sister would be to happy if Hamilton left as she is a big Hamilton supporter. She might even stop watching F1 altogether.

Anjobe

AMKC wrote: »

How do you Max would win the next 7 championships if Hamilton left?
We could have Max v George Russel in the Mercedes so while it might be a bit easier for Max I thought it would be all Max way unless Mercedes left too. I don't think my sister would be to happy if Hamilton left as she is a big Hamilton supporter. She might even stop watching F1 altogether.

Most likely scenario if Hamilton retires and Merc are still the best car is that Max would quickly end up in the Merc (he has a performance get out clause in his RB contract) and would dominate just like Hamilton has.

Surely the best chance of an exciting championship is to have 2 or more of the best drivers in cars that can actually compete with one another. How the regulations for next year work will be more significant in that than whether Hamilton carries on or not.

Jordan 199

On the subject of Honda, that's some exhaust on the RA300:

elperello

David Coulthard features in this programme about Monaco which is getting an airing on Virgin Media One tonight at 21.00.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000jykc

El_Duderino 09

OSI wrote: »

If I'm remembering correctly, part of the issues called out from the McLaren partnership was that Honda insisted on doing the engine development in Japan which presented unnecessary challenges and issues.

That was my understanding. I remember Joe Saward saying it was a shocking display of arrogance as they did it in Japan with Japanese staff and with Japanese management structures. In the beginning they didn't want to know about how anyone else was doing things or any foreign staff or ideas, and they ended up eating a concrete mixer full of humble pie when they hit the ground and realised how shyte the engine was.

Top Dog

Anjobe wrote: »

Why? Would it really better for Hamilton to leave and let Max win the next 7 championships?

Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part, but I cant see any driver, or constructor, winning another 7 championships in a row. Mercedes might have another 2 or 3 left in them, but with the new regulations and cost caps I don't think we'll ever see this level of dominance again.

As for being better without Lewis, I think both hardcore and casual fans are getting fatigued at this stage. He holds pretty much every record there is now, and if he gets title number 8 this year then that's yet another. The dominance is getting boring. The predictive races are boring.

Frank Bullitt

Top Dog wrote: »

Well this is potentially very depressing if true - https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-two-year-mercedes-contract-extension/

I hope at least that they give the second seat to Russell. If they resign Bottas, they are making fools out of us, no matter what spin Toto puts on it.

All this hybrid era has been is a corporation swinging it's mickey to inflate its market value, and ruin a sport at the same time.

TCP/IP

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

I hope at least that they give the second seat to Russell. If they resign Bottas, they are making fools out of us, no matter what spin Toto puts on it.

All this hybrid era has been is a corporation swinging it's mickey to inflate its market value, and ruin a sport at the same time.

Totally agree it's being a joke. I was listening to an interview with Paddy Lowe and all they used to talk about was how low to turn the power unit down to as they were so worried about looking too good as they knew they were miles ahead of everyone. That was a real eye opener.

BrentMused

Top Dog wrote: »

Well this is potentially very depressing if true - https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-two-year-mercedes-contract-extension/

Hamilton would be mental to walk away now.

He's as fit as a fiddle, shows no sign of slowing down, is making a fortune and, whilst I know we all thought this about Schumacher's records, he could realistically set records that will never come close to even being matched in our lifetimes by the time all is said and done.

It's unfortunate from an enjoyment point of view as a fan, but he should keep going and try to hit the 10 WDC's IMO. Number 8 is all but in the bag this year and 2 more at least is very realistic.

It would be a cool way to go out by getting into double figures.

Frank Bullitt

BrentMused wrote: »

Hamilton would be mental to walk away now.

He's as fit as a fiddle, shows no sign of slowing down, is making a fortune and, whilst I know we all thought this about Schumacher's records, he could realistically set records that will never come close to even being matched in our lifetimes by the time all is said and done.

It's unfortunate from an enjoyment point of view as a fan, but he should keep going and try to hit the 10 WDC's IMO. Number 8 is all but in the bag this year and 2 more at least is very realistic.

It would be a cool way to go out by getting into double figures.

It would probably kill off the sport if that were to happen, IMO. It is already rupturing viewers (despite having more platforms to broadcast to).

Hopefully this season is still close, couldn't fault him for winning it this year if it stays that way. But if it were to just be like last year (or the YEARS before that), the casual fan will lose interest more so. I even find it hard to justify paying for F1 TV, I even watch old races to take the sting out of it.

I also don't want to write off this year just yet, still 19 races to go.

MadYaker

I watched avidly in 00s and then I tuned out when I went to college. I’ll continue to watch the next few races but if Hamilton has it wrapped up after another race or two I’m done and I probably won’t come back.

Inquitus

BrentMused wrote: »

Hamilton would be mental to walk away now.

He's as fit as a fiddle, shows no sign of slowing down, is making a fortune and, whilst I know we all thought this about Schumacher's records, he could realistically set records that will never come close to even being matched in our lifetimes by the time all is said and done.

It's unfortunate from an enjoyment point of view as a fan, but he should keep going and try to hit the 10 WDC's IMO. Number 8 is all but in the bag this year and 2 more at least is very realistic.

It would be a cool way to go out by getting into double figures.

The rule changes next year are clearly going to make or break a lot of teams, Red Bull seem to be in a good position engine wise, the Honda is on a par with the Merc unit, and Merc have had their wings clipped substantially with regard to how much time and money they can spend on the 2022 car while trying to stay relevant to the 2021 title(s) race(s).

This is the biggest change in rules in forever and good as Merc are there is a pretty decent chance they will not have the best car in 2022.

Santan

It's 9 seasons now with Mercedes dominance I really can't see them not being the leading team next year. We must be in the 6th year of hearing for the first 6 or 7 races, how they don't have the fastest car, if it's not Ferrari its red bull, and it's all just bull, with Mercedes just sand bagging when ever they want. Has any other team in a sport dominated in this manner?

Inquitus

Santan wrote: »

It's 9 seasons now with Mercedes dominance I really can't see them not being the leading team next year. We must be in the 6th year of hearing for the first 6 or 7 races, how they don't have the fastest car, if it's not Ferrari its red bull, and it's all just bull, with Mercedes just sand bagging when ever they want. Has any other team in a sport dominated in this manner?

No this is the most dominant back to back effort in history, but the rule changes are huge and every team has an opportunity to interpret them and come up with the best design. This is the biggest overhaul of the rules in the history of the sport, so it is definitely a massive chance for all the teams to overhaul Mercedes, if Mercedes come out of it on top again it is simply because they are better than everyone else and have the best people, you can't look at it any other way. At the same time they are being nobbled by the budget cap and penalised for their success by having less wind tunnel and computer CFD time.