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The Ivermectin discussion

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,024 ✭✭✭ Miike


    That patent is based on a proprietary 'dose sparing' technology developed by MVMD. They are currently testing the formulations in India on animals (for the veterinary market) and they've included human COVID19 as a potential target, because why wouldn't you as things currently stand? They stand to lose exactly nothing but if a high quality study demonstrates Ivermectin as a candidate drug for COVID19 (prophylaxis or otherwise) they have some some ground work done on their "new, dose sparing technology" and they will have that system patented.

    You can patent anything you like if you've enough money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭ Probes


    banie01 wrote: »
    They aren't patenting Ivermectin though.
    They are patenting a soluble variation of it for use as a delivery method.

    If, and given the current state of the evidence it is a very conditional if.
    Ivermectin is shown to be a more efficacious treatment than those currently used, it may be that this company will gain sales based upon the novelty of the "newly patented" formulation.

    But I'm at a loss to see as to why a company would patent a new delivery vector, with those associated costs?
    But not progress with an EUA application based on the trials to date?

    It's almost as if, there's no quality data supporting a stance that the EUA is appropriate but that taking advantage of off label prescribing may present a sales opportunity.

    You said what I said!


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators Posts: 81,234 Mod ✭✭✭✭ biko


    Looks like it's a good way forward for poor countries.
    We should use it here too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 598 ✭✭✭ pioneerpro


    biko wrote: »
    Looks like it's a good way forward for poor countries.
    We should use it here too.


    More recently, but not familiar with the credibility of the website in question

    https://trialsitenews.com/top-yale-doctor-researcher-ivermectin-works-including-for-long-haul-covid/


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators Posts: 81,234 Mod ✭✭✭✭ biko


    Slovakia are now going to use Ivermectin as a treatment so if it works for them then maybe EU will allow it.

    I wouldn't mind taking a drug that has been used successfully for over 40 years.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭ Piollaire


    biko wrote: »
    Slovakia are now going to use Ivermectin as a treatment so if it works for them then maybe EU will allow it.

    I wouldn't mind taking a drug that has been used successfully for over 40 years.

    The EU won't allow it anytime soon. The European Medicines Agency trotted out in the last few days that it's use hasn't been proven and aren't sponsoring a trial themselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,024 ✭✭✭ Miike


    Piollaire wrote: »
    The EU won't allow it anytime soon. The European Medicines Agency trotted out in the last few days that it's use hasn't been proven and aren't sponsoring a trial themselves.

    Since when did the EMA 'sponsor' clinical trials?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,344 ✭✭✭ The Continental Op


    Piollaire wrote: »
    The EU won't allow it anytime soon. The European Medicines Agency trotted out in the last few days that it's use hasn't been proven and aren't sponsoring a trial themselves.

    I don't see what the fuss is? It may or may not be of any help countering Covid-19 but its a well proven drug with fewer side effects than many that doctors prescribe everyday.

    Wake me up when it's all over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,140 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    I don't see what the fuss is? It may or may not be of any help countering Covid-19 but its a well proven drug with fewer side effects than many that doctors prescribe everyday.
    Neither the EMA nor the FDA will approve a drug which may or may not do something, no matter how safe it is for other things. Aspirin is perfectly safe but you won't take it for a cough. It needs proper trial data so that it can be separated out from Ivermectin + a,b, c or Ivermectin two days after infections works 50% of the time or even the old all my patients got better approach.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,803 ✭✭✭✭ odyssey06


    The Journal has a fact check on Ivermectin, concluding

    "We rate the claim that ivermectin is an alternative to Covid-19 vaccines and could help to treat it UNPROVEN.2

    https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-ivermectin-covid-19-5385782-Mar2021/

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators Posts: 81,234 Mod ✭✭✭✭ biko


    Hopefully it will be accepted by the agencies.
    At <2 euros a pop it's cheaper than the vaccines, already widely available and with no major side effects.


  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭ Piollaire


    The Cali Colombia trial is a big setback. It's getting a lot of attention having being published by a prestigious journal in the US. Looking closer at it hasn't proven anything either way. The placebo group didn't go on to develop serious covid as expected so there wasn't anything to compare to the Ivermectin group. The placebo group could have been on Ivermectin before or during the study, or have been accidentally dosed by the study team which they admitted happened for a cohort. Without blood tests to confirm that the placebo group were Ivermectin free then this study is worthless. Publishing this paper has done huge damage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭ Johnboy1951


    Piollaire wrote: »
    The Cali Colombia trial is a big setback. It's getting a lot of attention having being published by a prestigious journal in the US. Looking closer at it hasn't proven anything either way. The placebo group didn't go on to develop serious covid as expected so there wasn't anything to compare to the Ivermectin group. The placebo group could have been on Ivermectin before or during the study, or have been accidentally dosed by the study team which they admitted happened for a cohort. Without blood tests to confirm that the placebo group were Ivermectin free then this study is worthless. Publishing this paper has done huge damage.

    Some reading on this
    https://osf.io/u7ewz/

    In addition to the failures and breakdowns in the study, one would have to query
    1. Why do a study in an area where Ivermectin is freely available to the population, and yet not choose only subjects who have never taken the substance?

    2. Why use a high IVM dose of 1,500 μg/kg over five days, 7.5x the IVM typical dose?


  • Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭ harrylittle


    Heard Elder berry pretty effective against covid natural antivirol


  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭ Piollaire


    One of the two Nobel prize winning inventors of Ivermectin calling for it to be used as a treatment for Covid.

    http://jja-contents.wdc-jp.com/pdf/JJA74/74-1-open/74-1_44-95.pdf.

    Shame, shame, shame on Merck/MSD


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,140 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    Piollaire wrote: »
    One of the two Nobel prize winning inventors of Ivermectin calling for it to be used as a treatment for Covid.

    http://jja-contents.wdc-jp.com/pdf/JJA74/74-1-open/74-1_44-95.pdf.

    Shame, shame, shame on Merck/MSD
    Nah, the data or evidence has to satisfy the people who will recommend or approve it otherwise it brings regulatory systems into disrepute.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭ Johnboy1951


    Piollaire wrote: »
    One of the two Nobel prize winning inventors of Ivermectin calling for it to be used as a treatment for Covid.

    http://jja-contents.wdc-jp.com/pdf/JJA74/74-1-open/74-1_44-95.pdf.

    Shame, shame, shame on Merck/MSD

    TBH Merck did not behave in any unexpected way.
    It is the nature of companies/corporations/etc., unless set up with some charitable function, to consider their financial bottom line exclusively.
    So Merck did what it was expected to do ....... not spend deliberately on some venture with no profit in it, and secondly to defend their product sales from potential competition by issuing statements that call into question the efficacy of that potential competition.

    We have heard plenty such stories over the past few decades, from various sectors, so that this should not be a surprise to us.

    That document is a heavy read but written in a very damning manner for these kinds of works.

    I wish I knew the reason for preventing the 'off label' use of Ivermectin during this emergency.

    I can think of none, other than corruption! :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭ Johnboy1951


    Carefree88 wrote: »
    Poland are starting a trial with anti viral amantadyne soon, a doctor there is all over thre news who has treated 3,000 patients since this all began with no hospitalisations, he is blaming the government for all the unnecessary deaths as he believes early treatment with that antiviral would have saved many lives

    ...

    Got a link?

    Found one ... mentions 100 patients treated, not 3,000
    https://polandin.com/51345947/health-ministry-commissions-clinical-trials-on-amantadine

    Another:
    This could be an interesting treatment ..... blood plasma .......
    More than 3,000 ampoules of anti-SARS-CoV-2 immunoglobulin have been produced, which after the completion of the required quality tests, including product stability tests, will be submitted to clinical trials in four centres
    https://emerging-europe.com/news/poland-has-a-medicine-for-covid-19/

    It appears that Poland is not following the general trend and actually trying to find additional measures to treat Covid.

    .


  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭ Piollaire


    TBH Merck did not behave in any unexpected way.
    It is the nature of companies/corporations/etc., unless set up with some charitable function, to consider their financial bottom line exclusively.
    So Merck did what it was expected to do ....... not spend deliberately on some venture with no profit in it, and secondly to defend their product sales from potential competition by issuing statements that call into question the efficacy of that potential competition.

    We have heard plenty such stories over the past few decades, from various sectors, so that this should not be a surprise to us.

    That document is a heavy read but written in a very damning manner for these kinds of works.

    I wish I knew the reason for preventing the 'off label' use of Ivermectin during this emergency.

    I can think of none, other than corruption! :(

    Yes but in this case a lot of the people who work for Merck are based here in Ireland under the name of MSD. They are complicit in this disaster. I'm adding Merck/MSD to my list of Covid scumbags.

    1. Wuhan virology lab (released virus)
    2. Chinese Government (covered up virus)
    3. The director of W.H.O. (puppet of Chinese govt.)
    4. Merck/MSD (discrediting Ivermectin)
    5. Donald Trump / Jair Bolsonaro / Tanzanian president (Covid deniers)
    6. Peruvian govt. (banned Ivermectin)


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭ Johnboy1951


    Some things that make you go hmmmmm in this
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/vaccine-conundrum/5741279
    To clarify this situation, a German study with 176 participants, published last week as a preprint, measured the age-dependent immune response to the Pfizer vaccine. Somewhat shockingly, the study found that one third of people over the age of 80 developed no neutralizing antibodies at all, and thus were potentially without seroprotection even after the second vaccination

    You could add the Peruvian government officials to your list

    Peru instituted the use of Ivermectin in May of 2020, after which deaths dropped ~tenfold. Then, shortly after the inauguration in NOV 2020 of President Sagasti, they recommended against the use of Ivermectin and the cases & deaths rose dramatically. Now Peru is following the mask/social distance protocol instead of the reintroduction of Ivermectin. The seasonal change might well have had an impact, but unlikely to be this dramatic!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭ Ballynally


    there is more and more evidence about succesful treatment of Covid19 w Ivermectin. It is still not allowed to be used in the EU although the science is there now to support its efficacy.
    Dozens of randomized control tests, papers published etc.
    Some useful Youtube sites like dr MoBeen and dr Kory, Campbell etc supporting.
    It could save 1000s of lives right now but we are mostly focused on vaccinations.
    The two should go in tandem..


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭ Johnboy1951


    This is not directly related to Ivermectin, but it addresses treatment for Covid.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHi3lX3oGM


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,195 ✭✭✭ lucernarian


    When the FDA posts PSAs about the "horse medication" Ivermectin, yet approved the failed treatment of Redemsevir on an emergency basis last year, it is rather striking that several small trials all indicate significant efficacy and yet it wasn't included in RECOVERY or a widely-accepted and large sample size RCT.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,205 Mod ✭✭✭✭ hmmm


    I seem to remember not so long ago a poster, who subsequently possibly disappeared, claimed that South America's low Covid rate (at the time) was due to their use of Ivermection. How did that work out for them?


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators Posts: 81,234 Mod ✭✭✭✭ biko


    This is not directly related to Ivermectin, but it addresses treatment for Covid.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHi3lX3oGM
    Very interesting video even if it is not on ivermectin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,608 ✭✭✭ gctest50


    Hawthorn leaf, if you don't mind...
    Next, we'll be told that strong tea works wonders for a Covid infection.
    Must get on to the WHO immediately. They'll be delighted to know.


    You can gey digitalis from the little purple Foxglove

    Don't be chewing on it though : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4938686/


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,465 ✭✭✭✭ drunkmonkey


    Hawthorn leaf, if you don't mind...
    Next, we'll be told that strong tea works wonders for a Covid infection.
    Must get on to the WHO immediately. They'll be delighted to know.

    My go to for all cold and flu symptom is Echinaforce, stops them in their tracks, very little studies on it for Covid-19, but it does seem to inactivate it, my doctors wife who's a pharmacist swears by it. I wouldn't rule out things right in front us that could help people with symptoms.

    The observed virucidal activity of Echinaforce® was not restricted to common cold coronaviruses, as both SARS-CoV-1 and MERS-CoVs were inactivated at comparable concentrations. Finally, the causative agent of COVID-19, SARS-CoV-2 was also inactivated upon treatment with 50μg/ml Echinaforce®.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32907596/

    The WHO recommended India stop early intervention with Ivermectin, said it should be restricted to trials only.
    The most important thing about this virus is to stop it progressing into something serious, it does not seem to be the WHO's priority though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,669 ✭✭✭✭ Lumen


    My go to for all cold and flu symptom is Echinaforce, stops them in their tracks, very little studies on it for Covid-19, but it does seem to inactivate it, my doctors wife who's a pharmacist swears by it. I wouldn't rule out things right in front us that could help people with symptoms.

    The observed virucidal activity of Echinaforce® was not restricted to common cold coronaviruses, as both SARS-CoV-1 and MERS-CoVs were inactivated at comparable concentrations. Finally, the causative agent of COVID-19, SARS-CoV-2 was also inactivated upon treatment with 50μg/ml Echinaforce®.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32907596/

    That's an in vitro study. You'd probably get better results with bleach.


  • Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭ harrylittle


    Hawthorn leaf, if you don't mind...
    Next, we'll be told that strong tea works wonders for a Covid infection.
    Must get on to the WHO immediately. They'll be delighted to know.

    Don't tell WHO they'll probably mandate every government to cut down every hawthorn tree in case it spreads covid.


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  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 66,667 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ Beasty


    A number of posts deleted

    Do not post hearsay, or indeed any unproven "potential" remedies/treatments


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