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The Ivermectin discussion

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭✭ See19


    Ireland needs a plan B and follow India’s and many other countries good example and stockpile very cheap Ivermectin and provide it on prescription to people who need it while waiting for vaccination. Tons of growing evidence for plan B as vaccines may not solve the problem this year.
    Miike Check out data on : c19early.com and ivmmeta.com :-) I would like your feedback.

    Ivermectin is 40 years old proven drug and a very low Cost & Risk Plan B ! Anyone else feel the same and its a no brainer? We don’t have time to delay playing politics with the Gov / Medical bureaucracy they need to be agile and just do it with a high volume of taxpayers demanding it.
    The evidence for using Ivermectin is overwhelming as India reduced its Covid deaths by over 90%.
    Covid Deaths for 1M Pop (Worldometer 14th Mar 2021)
    1. UK = 1842
    2. USA = 1,646
    3. Ireland = 911
    4. India = 114 (estimated forecast =2500) = 95% reduction


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,024 ✭✭✭ Miike


    See19 wrote: »
    Ireland needs a plan B and follow India’s and many other countries good example and stockpile very cheap Ivermectin and provide it on prescription to people who need it while waiting for vaccination. Tons of growing evidence for plan B as vaccines may not solve the problem this year.
    Miike Check out data on : c19early.com and ivmmeta.com

    Ivermectin is 40 years old and very low cost & Risk Plan B ! Anyone else feel the same and it a no brainer? We don’t have time to delay playing politics with the Gov / Medical bureaucracy.
    The evidence for using Ivermectin is overwhelming as India reduced it Covid deaths by over 90%.
    Covid Deaths for 1M Pop (Worldometer 14th Mar 2021)
    1. UK = 1842
    2. USA = 1,646
    3. Ireland = 911
    4. India = 114 (estimated forecast =2500) = 95% reduction

    Indias ICMR doesn't recommend the use of Ivermectin. There is no data depicting widespread use of it India. What has you under the illusion that it is being used there?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭✭ See19


    All studies combined (pooled effects, early, late, prophylaxis)
    Medication Improvement Studies Authors Patients
    Ivermectin 72% [64‑79%] 46 371 15,480

    The data and direction is compelling - India is just one of many moving in the right direction.
    In 6 months time we will be wondering why no one did anything if a new stronger variant emerges that evades all current vaccines.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,874 ✭✭✭✭ banie01


    See19 wrote: »
    In early 2019 India was forecast to have the highest Covid deaths but due to Ivermectin has the lowest and no one has any other evidence to explain this.

    Quite a crystal ball!
    Whomever made the early 2019 prediction on the impact of a virus that didn't emerge until late 2019 should really start doing a line in horoscopes too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,024 ✭✭✭ Miike


    See19 wrote: »
    All studies combined (pooled effects, early, late, prophylaxis)
    Medication Improvement Studies Authors Patients
    Ivermectin 72% [64‑79%] 46 371 15,480

    The data and direction is compelling - India is just one of many moving in the right direction.
    In 6 month time we will be wondering why no one did anything if new variant appears the beats the all vaccines.

    So you've just decided India is using it then? Right. I see where this is going.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭✭ See19


    banie01 wrote: »
    Quite a crystal ball!
    Whomever made the early 2019 prediction on the impact of a virus that didn't emerge until late 2019 should really start doing a line in horoscopes too.

    Glad you spotted that intentional typo "early 2020" :-), if that all you can find wrong with that post thats ok.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭✭ See19


    Miike wrote: »
    So you've just decided India is using it then? Right. I see where this is going.

    That evidence drives the approach to the solution and is the evidence from many countries is it not?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ ShineOn7


    I haven't read this thread in a good while

    Where are Ireland at with this treatment?


  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭ Piollaire


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    I haven't read this thread in a good while

    Where are Ireland at with this treatment?

    Nowhere unfortunately.

    Our medicines regulator - HPRA - only licences a medicine when a manufacturer submits it for approval. Merck(MSD) is not going to do it.

    I saw a testimonial on Merck's website from an employee who contracted Covid. It's amazing how this company can allow its own employees and their families suffer when it has had an effective anti-viral ready to roll all this time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ ShineOn7


    Piollaire wrote: »

    Our medicines regulator - HPRA - only licences a medicine when a manufacturer submits it for approval. Merck(MSD) is not going to do it.


    Why won't Merck submit it?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭ Piollaire


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Why won't Merck submit it?

    Because they are developing new anti-virals for which they have received huge financial support from the US Government. These new medicines will also be on patent and provide vastly greater profit margins.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭✭ See19


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    I haven't read this thread in a good while

    Where are Ireland at with this treatment?

    Great question, the answer is Ivermectin is currently used for about 22% of the world's population and all their Covid 19 rates are lower or declining faster than countries like Ireland.

    Ireland does not allow it to be prescribed for Covid treatment by an Irish doctor.

    But an Irish vet can prescribe Ivermectin for an animal and we can then eat the animal to get a very small dose of Ivermectin, not much use as human a treatment for Covid. :)

    Note: This could explain some Covid resistance in the poor countries that have ongoing exposure to consuming Ivermectin treated food (Just a theory - no hard evidence available yet).

    Country wide adoption of Ivermectin Covid treatment is accelerating at different levels with countries like Portugal, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Egypt, El Salcador, Guatemala, India, Mexico, Peru South Africa etc and increasing daily.
    Any ideas how long will it be before Ireland is added to this List?
    Maybe a Petition will help the Gov bend the HPRA rules like other countries did?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ ShineOn7


    Piollaire wrote: »
    Because they are developing new anti-virals for which they have received huge financial support from the US Government. These new medicines will also be on patent and provide vastly greater profit margins.


    ****

    Between this and the EU with vaccines; there's far too much nonsense going on with vaccines and treatments

    Europe needs better


  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭ Piollaire


    See19 wrote: »

    But an Irish vet can prescribe Ivermectin for an animal and we can then eat the animal to get a very small dose of Ivermectin, not much use as human a treatment for Covid. :)

    I've come across numerous reports of people taking horse paste which is not medically recommended.

    Country wide adoption of Ivermectin Covid treatment is accelerating at different levels with countries like Portugal, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Egypt, El Salcador, Guatemala, India, Mexico, Peru South Africa etc and increasing daily.
    Any ideas how long will it be before Ireland is added to this List?
    Maybe a Petition will help the Gov bend the HPRA rules like other countries did?

    Can't imagine there would be many signing that as the belief is out there that if it was an effective medicine then the health authorities would have authorised it. I think directly lobbying the major players in Ireland would be more effective especially if we could get someone with standing to advocate on Ivermectin's behalf.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭✭ See19


    Piollaire wrote: »
    I've come across numerous reports of people taking horse paste which is not medically recommended.



    Can't imagine there would be many signing that as the belief is out there that if it was an effective medicine then the health authorities would have authorised it. I think directly lobbying the major players in Ireland would be more effective especially if we could get someone with standing to advocate on Ivermectin's behalf.

    I know some drugs are made in the same lab for both Animals and humans but have different quality approval process. My dog is more important than some humans so I would expect the best. 😊

    I agree the direct approach would work but a petition with 5000 signatures might help get it over the line. I think the gov is too afraid of making a bad decision and need a bit of a push to think outside the box, what have they / we got to lose? Has anyone used change.org to start a petition and would you sign it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭ Piollaire


    See19 wrote: »
    ]

    I agree the direct approach would work but a petition with 5000 signatures might help get it over the line. I think the gov is too afraid of making a bad decision and need a bit of a push to think outside the box, what have they / we got to lose? Has anyone used change.org to start a petition and would you sign it?

    I'd be happy to sign


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭ lalababa


    If the **** hit the fan would anyone here inject ivermectin cattle dose??
    It's usually 1ml per 50kg. But it usually has clorsulan with it.
    I'd give it a go after ringing a vet...be damnedðŸ˜


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭✭✭ See19


    Piollaire wrote: »
    I'd be happy to sign

    Thats great Piollaire I will kick off a petition later in the week to allow an GPs to perscribe Invermection in Ireland (not a vet :))
    Would any one else consider signing it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭ Piollaire


    lalababa wrote: »
    If the **** hit the fan would anyone here inject ivermectin cattle dose??
    It's usually 1ml per 50kg. But it usually has clorsulan with it.
    I'd give it a go after ringing a vet...be damnedðŸ˜

    No idea what Clorsulan would do the human body so I wouldn't. Horse paste doesn't usually have any other active ingredients.

    This is another reason why GPs should be prescribing Ivermectin so that its intake can be done under controlled conditions.

    Is there any doctors in this country that support the use of Ivermectin?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,140 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    See19 wrote: »
    I know some drugs are made in the same lab for both Animals and humans but have different quality approval process. My dog is more important than some humans so I would expect the best. ��

    I agree the direct approach would work but a petition with 5000 signatures might help get it over the line. I think the gov is too afraid of making a bad decision and need a bit of a push to think outside the box, what have they / we got to lose? Has anyone used change.org to start a petition and would you sign it?
    Invermectin is still unproven and not recommended for COVID by any authority our experts would recognise, so I'm afraid you'd be wasting your time.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭ Piollaire


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Invermectin is still unproven and not recommended for COVID by any authority our experts would recognise, so I'm afraid you'd be wasting your time.

    Only the middle part of that sentence is correct.

    Some sceptism of our authorities is a healthy attitude - in this case literally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,140 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    Piollaire wrote: »
    Only the middle part of that sentence is correct.

    Some sceptism of our authorities is a healthy attitude - in this case literally.
    That they are still sceptical suggests there's good reason. Any links I've seen say it is unproven, some even point to people ending up in hospital from taking it. My own feeling is that other treatments, some old, some new, will probably be put to use first far more widely.


  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭ Piollaire


    is_that_so wrote: »
    That they are still sceptical suggests there's good reason. Any links I've seen say it is unproven, some even point to people ending up in hospital from taking it. My own feeling is that other treatments, some old, some new, will probably be put to use first far more widely.

    Our medicines reguator, the HPRA, and the European Medecines Agency haven't said it's unproven. They simply haven't looked at it due to regulations that put the ball totally in the manufacturer's court.

    New medicines haven't shown anyway near the efficacy of Ivermectin and we will be thoroughly gouged on price. Remdesevir costs $3,000.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,140 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    Piollaire wrote: »
    Our medicines reguator, the HPRA, and the European Medecines Agency haven't said it's unproven. They simply haven't looked at it due to regulations that put the ball totally in the manufacturer's court.

    New medicines haven't shown anyway near the efficacy of Ivermectin and we will be thoroughly gouged on price. Remdesevir costs $3,000.
    Both the FDA and WHO advise against it. Why do you imagine I'm just talking about that? There are other treatments under review and being researched.


  • Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭ DaSilva


    I really haven't followed the ivermectin story, but are some of you trying to tell me that ivermectin really works but all around the world health agencies are conspiring with Merck to pretend it doesn't work so they can make money from developing new treatments?


  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭ Piollaire


    DaSilva wrote: »
    I really haven't followed the ivermectin story, but are some of you trying to tell me that ivermectin really works but all around the world health agencies are conspiring with Merck to pretend it doesn't work so they can make money from developing new treatments?

    There's no grand conspiracy - it's just the management of Merck who have so far succeeded in undermining confidence internationally in the use of Ivermectin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,140 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    Piollaire wrote: »
    There's no grand conspiracy - it's just the management of Merck who have so far suceeded in undermining confidence internationally in the use of Ivermectin.
    So just a lil' conspiracy!


  • Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭ DaSilva


    I am still confused though, do Merck own all the IP to this drug? If so couldn't they make a fortune from it if they actually do hold the cure for covid? And if they don't then isn't some other company able to make it and run the trials if they have the cure for covid?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,140 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    DaSilva wrote: »
    I am still confused though, do Merck own all the IP to this drug? If so couldn't they make a fortune from it if they actually do hold the cure for covid? And if they don't then isn't some other company able to make it and run the trials if they have the cure for covid?

    Here's a summary of what's happening with it.

    https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭ Piollaire


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Both the FDA and WHO advise against it. Why do you imagine I'm just talking about that? There are other treatments under review and being researched.

    I don't know what's going on in the FDA - John Campbell recently took issue with factual errors on its website about Ivermectin's anti-viral properties. The NIH upgraded Ivermectin's status from 'recommend against' to 'neutral' following lobbying by the FLCCC. The WHO I believe is starting a study on Ivermectin. No other treatment is going to be cheaper.


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