New build house: not wired for fibre to the home

fungie

I live in a new build as part of a large development in Dublin. I signed up with Vodafone for tv and broadband. KN came to set it up, they informed me that the house isn't set up for fibre (there is Eir and Virgin box at the door, I've been with Virgin since I moved in) and that they would have to drill a hole, lay cable from outside, all around the living room, over the door to the tv. This would be pretty unsightly.

I asked what is the function of the Eir box that's already there. KN said it's for copper broadband. Interestingly enough, we can't get copper broadband in our area, so the box is essentially redundant according to them.

My question is: are KN just being lazy as it's easier for them to just drill rather than using the existing internal wiring of the house or are new builds just not set up correctly for FTTH out the gate? I would of thought that the planning regulations would require developers to make houses "fibre ready".

The Cush

fungie wrote: »

My question is: are KN just being lazy as it's easier for them to just drill rather than using the existing internal wiring of the house or are new builds just not set up correctly for FTTH out the gate? I would of thought that the planning regulations would require developers to make houses "fibre ready".

Which network are you connecting via, open-eir or SIRO?

There is an installation video here https://fibrerollout.ie/rollout-map/
Also https://fibrerollout.ie/rollout-map/cheat-sheets/

No house is setup as such for FTTH as the installer will run fibre cable directly to an ONT inside the house, normally 1m from the entry point on the house to where there is a power-point nearby, some installers will be more flexible about location. The router can be located there or ethernet cable can be run to a more convenient location.

fungie

The Cush wrote: »

Which network are you connecting via, open-eir or SIRO?

There is an installation video here https://fibrerollout.ie/rollout-map/
Also https://fibrerollout.ie/rollout-map/cheat-sheets/

No house is setup as such for FTTH as the installer will run fibre cable directly to an ONT inside the house, normally 1m from the entry point on the house to where there is a power-point nearby, some installers will be more flexible about location. The router can be located there or ethernet cable can be run to a more convenient location.

Connecting via Open Eir. The thing I don't understand is that, why they can't run the cable to the existing Eir box outside (pic attached) and then use the internal wiring in the same way Virgin do.

listermint

fungie wrote: »

Connecting via Open Eir. The thing I don't understand is that, why they can't run the cable to the existing Eir box outside (pic attached) and then use the internal wiring in the same way Virgin do.

Id imagine the engineer was telling you what was what, They dont tell lies for the sake of it.

You have Virgin service right now, thats high speed. Whats the problem ?

fungie

listermint wrote: »

Id imagine the engineer was telling you what was what, They dont tell lies for the sake of it.

You have Virgin service right now, thats high speed. Whats the problem ?

I want the ability to swap providers to get the best deals, that's why!

The house is brand new, it has eir branded box right beside the virgin one. Virgin good hook it up no problem, why can't Open Eir?

CoBo55

fungie wrote: »

I want the ability to swap providers to get the best deals, that's why!

The house is brand new, it has eir branded box right beside the virgin one. Virgin good hook it up no problem, why can't Open Eir?

I'm on half price for 6 months with VM, they will haggle.

The Cush

fungie wrote: »

Connecting via Open Eir. The thing I don't understand is that, why they can't run the cable to the existing Eir box outside (pic attached) and then use the internal wiring in the same way Virgin do.

The Virgin join is a passive coax to coax connection.

With FTTH there is a transition from fibre to ethernet via the ONT. The ONT is an indoor unit requiring power from a nearby socket. The eir external box, the ETU, doesn't have a socket and wouldn't be watertight against water/moisture ingress.

alec76

listermint wrote: »

You have Virgin service right now, thats high speed. Whats the problem ?

It must be very sickening for people from rural Ireland and waiting for NBP just to read this thread.

fungie

CoBo55 wrote: »

I'm on half price for 6 months with VM, they will haggle.

I may have to do that but would rather have choice without drilling and having ugly wires go around new house.

ED E

Its very likely the developer started the estate/planning more than 2yrs ago when Rural FTTH/IFN wasnt ready. Contractors installed what they always installed but its now obsolete.

Your gripe is with the developer, they should have ducted for fiber but honestly Id be surprised if a single one was doing that at present.

fungie

ED E wrote: »

Its very likely the developer started the estate/planning more than 2yrs ago when Rural FTTH/IFN wasnt ready. Contractors installed what they always installed but its now obsolete.

Your gripe is with the developer, they should have ducted for fiber but honestly Id be surprised if a single one was doing that at present.

I live in Drumcondra, so I doubt it was part of the rural FTTH but yes, I've contacted the developer. I would of assumed that there was regulations about having the houses 'fibre ready', it's less than a year old.

ED E

fungie wrote: »

I live in Drumcondra, so I doubt it was part of the rural FTTH but yes, I've contacted the developer. I would of assumed that there was regulations about having the houses 'fibre ready', it's less than a year old.

The system you're on was only announced in February 19. Announced.

fungie

ED E wrote: »

The system you're on was only announced in February 19. Announced.

Doesn't take a genius to figure out all areas will eventually get it and therefore all new houses for past 5-10 years should be future proofed.

listermint

fungie wrote: »

I want the ability to swap providers to get the best deals, that's why!

The house is brand new, it has eir branded box right beside the virgin one. Virgin good hook it up no problem, why can't Open Eir?

Lol.


This is a hilarious read.

fungie

The developers sent some people over today, turns out the place is ducted for FTTH and KN basically just didn't want to fish the line through, but rather drill a hole in the wall.

CoBo55

fungie wrote: »

The developers sent some people over today, turns out the place is ducted for FTTH and KN basically just didn't want to fish the line through, but rather drill a hole in the wall.

If it's ducted the builder should have left a pull string.

fungie

CoBo55 wrote: »

If it's ducted the builder should have left a pull string.

There is, well it looks like a rope.

CoBo55

fungie wrote: »

There is, well it looks like a rope.

They'd no excuse then.

jt69er

Booked a home move with Eir, FTTH, in August for moving Nov 30th. KN engineer came to install on 26th Sept and decided there was a pole needed as existing ducting wasn't suitable, I apologised for his wasted journey but he said he would get paid for doing the survey anyway. I got notification from Eir on the 29th Sept that completion date would be 28th December. After numerous calls to Eir I was unable to get completion date changed. On the 25th November I decided to order an installation with another provider who gave me an installation date of 2nd December. On the 2nd December a different KN engineer arrived and proceeded to complete the installation using the existing ducting.

alec76

fungie wrote: »

but rather drill a hole in the wall.

I presume you didn’t want a modem installed next to the “existing duct/ Eir Box”, you wanted it in the living room, next to the TV , which is quite far from “Eir Box” right ?
And those developers never installed any Ethernet cabling around the house?

NewClareman

fungie wrote: »

The developers sent some people over today, turns out the place is ducted for FTTH and KN basically just didn't want to fish the line through, but rather drill a hole in the wall.

Fair play to you for standing your ground.

fungie

alec76 wrote: »

I presume you didn’t want a modem installed next to the “existing duct/ Eir Box”, you wanted it in the living room, next to the TV , which is quite far from “Eir Box” right ?
And those developers never installed any Ethernet cabling around the house?

About 3-4m away. I've no idea how the place was wired.

alec76

fungie wrote: »

About 3-4m away.

Probably too far for the fibre installation .
You should of asked to terminate fibre right outside Eir Box and run Ethernet cable yourself to any place you needed to move the modem.
ps. personally I would let them just to drill new hole , would be less messy than Ethernet cable.

alec76

NewClareman wrote: »

Fair play to you for standing your ground.

Sarcasm detected.

fungie

alec76 wrote: »

Probably too far for the fibre installation .
You should of asked to terminate fibre right outside Eir Box and run Ethernet cable yourself to any place you needed to move the modem.
ps. personally I would let them just to drill new hole , would be less messy than Ethernet cable.

The whole point would be to not have to run cable as it's unsightly.

alec76

fungie wrote: »

The whole point would be to not have to run cable as it's unsightly.

They offered you to clip cable OUTSIDE the house and drill the new hole right beside TV for fibre entrance so it won't be any cable running INSIDE the house and you think it is unsightly?
Good luck staying with VM.

fungie

alec76 wrote: »

They offered you to clip cable OUTSIDE the house and drill the new hole right beside TV for fibre entrance so it won't be any cable running INSIDE the house and you think it is unsightly?
Good luck staying with VM.

No, that's not the case. They would have to drill a hole outside, then run a cable around a whole room to the tv.

alec76

fungie wrote: »

They would have to drill a hole outside, then run a cable around a whole room to the tv.

They would never run fibre optic cable for such a long distance INSIDE the house.
It is always outside , around the house they clipping it and drilling the wall for cable entrance right at the spot you need the modem .

NewClareman

NewClareman wrote: »

Fair play to you for standing your ground.

alec76 wrote: »

Sarcasm detected.

I wasn't being sarcastic. Drilling through the fabric of a house, when ducting was provided, is outrageous.

ED E wrote: »

The system you're on was only announced in February 19. Announced.

fungie wrote: »

Doesn't take a genius to figure out all areas will eventually get it and therefore all new houses for past 5-10 years should be future proofed.

I'm not sure what version of FTTH, was announced on Feb 19. Industry discussions were already underway in 2011/2012. I would expect all new developments, over the past 5 years, to have suitable ducting in place.

alec76 wrote: »

I presume you didn’t want a modem installed next to the “existing duct/ Eir Box”, you wanted it in the living room, next to the TV , which is quite far from “Eir Box” right ?
And those developers never installed any Ethernet cabling around the house?

I agree that it would be optimal if there was an Ethernet cable from the ONT location to the tv. However, this is not a showstopper. This issue was identified when the initial rollout of FTTH was being planned. The industry consensus, at that time, was that homeplugs were an acceptable solution. For the vast majority of consumers they still are.

fungie

alec76 wrote: »

They would never run fibre optic cable for such a long distance INSIDE the house.
It is always outside , around the house they clipping it and drilling the wall for cable entrance right at the spot you need the modem .

I never said they would run optical fibre inside. There would be an ethernet cable going around the room and over the door.

alec76

NewClareman wrote: »

I wasn't being sarcastic. Drilling through the fabric of a house, when ducting was provided, is outrageous.

There is no ducting from ETU to TV though ?

jt69er

Why do you need a cable to the tv?

NBAiii

The OP has two threads going across different forums and I'm still not sure what is going on. All I know is that an installer didn't use a roped duct to the ETU on the premises. You'd have to ask why, when that would be the normal route of installation

My suspicion is either the ETU and duct does not lead to the distribution point location or perhaps there was no power for the ONT on the interior wall behind the ETU.

fungie

jt69er wrote: »

Why do you need a cable to the tv?

Vodafone and Eir tv use the broadband connection for their tv. A cable would be required to connect these two.

NBAiii

fungie wrote: »

Vodafone and Eir tv use the broadband connection for their tv. A cable would be required to connect these two.

That is an ethernet cable, not a fibre cable.

fungie

NBAiii wrote: »

The OP has two threads going across different forums and I'm still not sure what is going on. All I know is that an installer didn't use a roped duct to the ETU on the premises. You'd have to ask why, when that would be the normal route of installation

My suspicion is either the ETU and duct does not lead to the distribution point location oe perhaps there was no power for the ONT on the interior wall behind the ETU.

Agreed, it's gone a bit messy.

There is no interior wall behind the ETU (assuming the ETU is the "Eir" box outside)

fungie

NBAiii wrote: »

That is an ethernet cable, not a fibre cable.

The type of cable is irrelevant. It's still an eyesore.

NBAiii

fungie wrote: »

Agreed, it's gone a bit messy.

There is no interior wall behind the ETU (assuming the ETU is the "Eir" box outside)

It is. What is behind it?

Can you could perhaps try to outline what you expected would happen? Start from the outside as in where the cable was coming from and where you expected it to go.

fungie

NBAiii wrote: »

It is. What is behind it?

Can you could perhaps try to outline what you expected would happen? Start from the outside as in where the cable was coming from and where you expected it to go.

I expected a no nonsense broadband installation to my less than 1 year old house. It has the required components to do so without additional drilling or cabling, as verified by the developer today, when they called over.

NBAiii

fungie wrote: »

I expected a no nonsense broadband installation to my less than 1 year old house. It has the required components to do so without additional drilling or cabling, as verified by the developer today, when they called over.

I've tried to help. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Good luck.

smellyoldboot

fungie wrote: »

The type of cable is irrelevant. It's still an eyesore.

Run it up along the ceiling joint. Bit of moulding/soffit board etc and it's out of sight forever. The ethernet cable is plug in. When you switch provider just plug out the end and switch to new equipment. No need to be awkward just to be awkward.

fungie

NBAiii wrote: »

I've tried to help. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Good luck.

I never claimed to know what I'm talking about. I'm just applying common sense that the house is new, therefore should be equipped to handle a broadband installation. Something the developers have verified.

glack

fungie wrote: »

I never claimed to know what I'm talking about. I'm just applying common sense that the house is new, therefore should be equipped to handle a broadband installation. Something the developers have verified.

From KNs point of view, their job is to get it inside the 4 walls of your house. After that it’s your problem.

fungie

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Run it up along the ceiling joint. Bit of moulding/soffit board etc and it's out of sight forever. The ethernet cable is plug in. When you switch provider just plug out the end and switch to new equipment. No need to be awkward just to be awkward.

If I understand you correctly, unfortunately, due to the orientation of the room, this is isn't possible.

fungie

glack wrote: »

From KNs point of view, their job is to get it inside the 4 walls of your house. After that it’s your problem.

That seems to be the case alright but they should be made to do it in the least invasive way possible.

jd

fungie wrote: »

I never claimed to know what I'm talking about. I'm just applying common sense that the house is new, therefore should be equipped to handle a broadband installation. Something the developers have verified.

Do you have cat 5e/6 run all around the house with ports on the walls for connections?

fungie

jd wrote: »

Do you have cat 5e/6 run all around the house with ports on the walls for connections?

I've no idea what kind of cables run around the house being honest. There are several points around the place, but no idea what is behind them. I've attached a pic.

dam099

fungie wrote: »

I've no idea what kind of cables run around the house being honest. There are several points around the place, but no idea what is behind them. I've attached a pic.

You wont get a meaningful response unless you unscrew that plate and post a picture of what's behind it.

fungie

dam099 wrote: »

You wont get a meaningful response unless you unscrew that plate and post a picture of what's behind it.

I'll do it tomorrow.

listermint

Right heres the long and short of it.

YOU need to get ethernet cable run from whatever Peripherals (TV) you want to use it on , to the location of entry of the cable / fiber modem. That is on you, Unsightly or not its your issue to handle.

KNs job is solely to get their Cable / Fibre through the envelope of your wall inside the the building without going further. The Modem needs power too.

So if there was no power on the other side of that entry point then its not viable. If there was sockets on the wall just inside where they were proposing drilling the wall then that location is viable.

If you want it ran through the entry point then provide power to it, and ethernet to it from your peripherals.



Note - The Age of your house has no bearing on any of the above. 1 year old / 15 year old . doesnt matter.

NewClareman

jd wrote: »

Do you have cat 5e/6 run all around the house with ports on the walls for connections?

listermint wrote: »

Right heres the long and short of it.

YOU need to get ethernet cable run from whatever Peripherals (TV) you want to use it on , to the location of entry of the cable / fiber modem. That is on you, Unsightly or not its your issue to handle.

@OP

If it were me I'd only consider running ethernet cable as a last resort. The vast majority of 'Peripherals' will work fine with WiFi or, at worst, HomePLugs. (HomePlugs allow you to extend the broadband using the mains.) I use HomePlugs without issue for Netflix. I also know with certainty that at least one of the TV suppliers mentioned tested their service with HomePlugs. If they don't work in your particular case then you could consider upgrading your wifi system. There are lots of threads on how to do this.

Even if the above approaches don't work, which is unlikely, you don't need cabling all around the house. You need a single cable run from the ONT to the tv. This cable is much smaller than a coaxial cable. In my case, I ran it behind skirting when I got solid floors fitted.

listermint wrote: »

KNs job is solely to get their Cable / Fibre through the envelope of your wall inside the the building without going further. The Modem needs power too.

So if there was no power on the other side of that entry point then its not viable.

If lack of a mains socket was the issue then that should have been pointed out to the op. He then had the option of getting a socket installed and could, if necessary, have used an extension lead to allow the line be commissioned.
The installer/technician should of course have pointed out the limitations of using that access point and that a means of connecting to the tv was required.