Spider-Man: No Way Home *spoilers from post 185*

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358350#Comment_118358350

What numbers did Venom do at the box office? Venom is my favourite Spidey character. Green Goblin is bigger. Marvel and Spidermans ultimate arch nemises. He's Marvel's Joker, always was, and will be

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358333#Comment_118358333

This isn't Brand New Day though. Loosely based, but as the MCU often does, it makes whatever changes they deem necessary.

Happy was mourning Aunt May. He wouldn't have known her had Peter not existed. Even if he remembered Spider-Man, he wouldn't have known Aunt May.

So he knows that he knew Aunt May through Spider-Man, but he just doesn't remember Peter.

Add to that Ned and MJ would have known each other through school anyway, so Peter existing or not wouldn't change that.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358333#Comment_118358333

Ned and MJ are not strangers.

they were talking about getting into MIT, they go to the same school.

all previous events and interactions still happened. Doctor Strange did not change history (because he can’t do that) he just altered the world’s mind to forget Peter Parker.

This is why Happy still remembers May, and why May is still dead.

History has not changed

FunLover18

Now I'm doubley confused. If they were friends wouldn't they have know they got into the same college?

The Golden Miller

The two of yous got me with the Happy thing. But I think that's an outlier surely for the sake of the story? The concept was brand new Day, which means events could only occur, that happened, had Peter existed.

Unlikely MJ and Ned would have crossed paths to that degree, had Peter not existed

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358375#Comment_118358375

I have no idea about Venom box office.

I’m not disputing that Goblin is the Marvel equivalent of Joker in the comics.

I’m asking where you get the information that Green Goblin’s presence in the movie is a massive draw to the general audience who are not familiar with his printed history or that they view him as Joker.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358396#Comment_118358396

Exactly. Hole in the brand new Day story

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358225#Comment_118358225

I'm not sure where you get your comics, Osborn hasnt done that much recently, and not since Dark Avengers about 10 years ago has anything he has done affected the entire 616 universe. He had a renaissance as Red Goblin to kickstart (before being replaced by Cletus Kasady) the last few years of symbiote heavy Spider stories. Granted hes now in charge of Ravencroft but thats at the want of Kingpin who has been pulling most of the strings the last year or so, to ensure he became mayor of New York.

You are really overestimating Osborn.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358406#Comment_118358406

General perception. I think anyone would concede the hype around the movie went from mild interest from Marvel fatigue, to renewed interest the minute the Green Goblin was announced.

The fact Marvel and Sony clearly made a point of him being the showdown in this very movie?

The fact they made him kill a decisive characters from the off, to show the audience, who may be new, this is the embodiment of evil, the Goblin in all guises is the one who makes the decisive kill, 3 movie series' in a row. Will I continue?

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358396#Comment_118358396

They did know.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358399#Comment_118358399

You have made yourself someone to not take seriously.

you can’t explain Happy still knowing May so you ignore it.

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358431#Comment_118358431

I’m aware of key events in the comics but haven’t read them in a long long time.

Yiu said exactly what I wanted to say about Goblin though - The Golden Miller is overestimating him.

Regardless of how popular he might be in comics and regardless of the impact he has had on Spiderman, the cinema audience don’t know him beyond his role in the first MaGuire movie and any excitement that movie goers had for his presence in this movie was no more or less than for the Alfred Molina, and the others because peoples like those movies.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358431#Comment_118358431

Em, from the Amazing Spiderman series (Superior Spiderman/ new volume Amazing Spiderman etc.), that justify my opinion?

There's been many huge stories, crossovers, in the comics for many years. I'm talking about the fact severel can be related to one character, Osborn. Not every time, but a good percentage of times.

I'm a Daredevil fan too, for years. If you ever think Osborn took orders from the Kingpin, if not having an ulterior motive, to work under him, then you don't have a clue

Need a Username

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358453#Comment_118358453

Here we go with the Tin foil hats and the mythical Marvel fatigue.

I don’t think people know how to count money. I don’t know what cinema you were at for Black widow, Shang chi and Eternals but it wasn’t the same as the one I was at

what evidence have you that Goblin made interest soar and not Goblin, Ock, Lizard, etc

and he doesn’t kill May “from the off” - it is half way through the movie.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358068#Comment_118358068

I understand there are plenty of holes that can be poked in the final spell but it stands up relatively well me. Everything beforehand happened but it pulled all memory of Peter out of their minds so they each fill in their gaps. Our own brains constantly so a similar thing for bits we forget everyday - it is why witness statements can be so untrustworthy.

Based on Loki I don't think the curing is an issue - there are an infinite number of multiverses, the 'cured' villains just go back to a new divergent stream. The OT and AT are still as they were.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358512#Comment_118358512

The Marvel fatigue point was made in passing. Look up numbers for the trailer, before and after the Goblin made an appearance. The dogs on the street could tell you the interest was average, went up a few levels once the Goblin showed up in the trailer

Start or half way, he kills a decisive character. Only the Green Goblin has enough weight as a character to do that consistently, the studios made a point of it, i.e this is the bad guy, number 1

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358504#Comment_118358504

Superior Spiderman was when Otto was in Parkers body as Spiderman. Norman did acts as an antagonist but it wasnt even against the actual Spiderman so chalking that up as regards his rivalry with Spiderman is odd.

If you are reading the most recent Amazing Spiderman your take on Kingpin is strange.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358563#Comment_118358563

The trailer that broke world record didn't even have Goblin in it, the hook was Doc Ock saying 'Hello Peter...' at the end.

People rolled their eyes at Osborn and Goblin being shoved into Amazing Spiderman series - it was one of the biggest downfalls trying to go to that well again. MCU have given Spiderman a new life by taking a different angle

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358615#Comment_118358615

I'd find it odd your chalking one modern storyline to, which is even arguable, to hold more weight than decades of destruction from one character, amusing.

Not one villain has caused Spiderman, or any hero, more trouble or heartache as the Green Goblin

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358465#Comment_118358465

I think the Happy bit can be explained - he was introduced to Aunt May through Spider-man, she didn't know he was Spider-man when they first met. If you take out the Peter element he could still remember the Spider-man specific moments and he builds out an explanation around it. Is isn't far fetched based if you look at what humans do without magic involved.

FunLover18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358540#Comment_118358540

I think you're right, I'm probably either going to have to accept it find some head canon to explain it. Those kinds of things just annoy me personally though, it's why I don't love Endgame as much as most. The holes re the taking and replacing stones just stand out to me although Loki sort of solved that.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358637#Comment_118358637

The trailer people went back to in huge numbers, to see hidden clues of the talked about Green Goblin appearance. That's where the repeat views came from.

The well you speak of that won't dry anytime soon. Green or Hobgoblins will be the order of the day going forward. The well is plenty deep I'd suspect

I disagree they gave him a new life, they set him up at the end, to take over from where the Tobey Maguire films may have started. Brand new day, brand new Goblin. But that's what the people want

The Golden Miller

I'll be honest, I'm baffled all this is a conversation. Thought it would be like trying to convince people Joker is a rival of Batman, which would be a draw

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358651#Comment_118358651

Again with ridiculous hyperbole.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358731#Comment_118358731

Hyperbole? The Green Goblin has ever been the only one to hit Spiderman where it really hurt. Even in the new film, they made a point of it. The new MCU Spidey, Green Goblin did him too

Penn

Green Goblin is generally accepted as being Spider-Man's arch-nemesis; his Joker, his Luthor, his Red Skull... etc. He is the primary enemy where the stories get the most personal, where he pushes Spider-Man to his absolute limits and is able to damage him beyond what most other enemies can do.

It's why he was villain they went for in the very first Spider-Man film.

Shred

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358242#Comment_118358242

That's exactly what I expected initially when Ned walked past Parker!

I enjoyed the movie, while I had been looking forward to seeing it, my expectations were raised somewhat following the Empire podcast going batshít about it on last week's podcast*; in fairness some of that was about the experience of seeing it, the audience I saw it with were fairly muted which does impact things. I see others on this thread talking about 'their' audience reaction to some of the key character reveals which made me wish I'd seen it with that type of audience tbh 😕

*

https://play.acast.com/s/theempirefilmpodcast/7342f0ff16560fa388e1aefa001f53c0

IRE60

Yea - brought the 11yr boss, who loved it - the De La Soul 'Three is a Magic number' was clever in the credits (think a small group in the cinema actually knew the lyrics!) - poster above hit the nail on the head - Happy and Peter at the grave did/didn't make sense! Good film - few scenes dragged out - overall a decent watch

Liam O

I would say there would have been interest in the Green Goblin appearing as that basically confirmed Tobey Maguire as appearing which was a far bigger purveyor of interest.

The Golden Miller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118359033#Comment_118359033

Of course. When Marvel was going bankrupt, Spiderman carried the company on his back, Green Goblin being the arch nemises.

People are quick to forget with the MCU universe, Thanos and Loki etc were b villains in contrast.

Marvel even stated during the 90s they were going to stop using Venom, Green Goblin and Doc Ock, as they felt their long term popularity would suffer due to over exposure.

The Venom film showed people don't forget so quickly, and when the Green Goblin was announced for this film, interest went through the roof.

Most of Marvel's other characters are hugely popular, or become big, off the back off the MCU. They need it to live off.

Venom, Spiderman, Doc Ock, X-Men and Hulk transcend that, they are huge draws as stand alone characters. And the Green Goblin takes it to the next level.

This film centered around the Green Goblin, his return and immediate impact and hurt he caused to this versions Spiderman. It was also a gauge as to whether they would run with Ned becoming Hobgoblin in a new trilogy, this MCUs version of the Green Goblin/a Goblin.

He's Marvel's flagship villain, and as I said, were prepared to convulute things to bring him back into play. Break it down, that's the purpose this film served.

This film is doing numbers no other Spiderman film did, in covid times, due to Green Goblins return. That's the bottom line really.

People are quick to forget, until the Nolan trilogy and solo film, Green Goblin was a bigger household name than the Joker