US billionaire calls out Ireland as "no one wants to live here"

Wibbs

AutoTuning wrote: »

There isn’t any context like a pub where you can just go and strike up random conversation. You’d just be the weirdo who’s attempting to talk to people and be totally ignored.

In France, Spain and Italy I found the locals were flabbergasted that I'd just strike up a conversation with strangers in a bar, or anywhere really. They immediately assumed I must somehow know them and when I told them I didn't it really didn't compute for them(particularly the French). This was the case even when the strangers were other Irish people. Funny enough I never encountered any resistance from local stangers when I did strike up a convo. Some initial surprise at times, but otherwise grand and in two cases we kept in contact. Now granted I'll talk to the wall, but still, that did surprise me.

AutoTuning

It depends where. You can be lucky in France or you can get “non! Merci.”

It’s not that France is unfriendly, but if you don’t have context to be sociable, you’re not able to be.

Belgium isn’t as bad as there’s a bar culture and they can be chattier.

I think though there’s a bit of an issue with people assuming you can just wander up and strike up a conversation without any reason to do so. You can to a very narrow degree do that in Ireland, but it’s limited to certain contexts, like pubs. Other than that you need to be somewhere for a purpose and everyone has to be in the making friends mode.

Also you have friends and acquaintances, and much more of the later than the former.

It shows that there’s a demand for online connectivity ton when you see sites like Meetup are very busy, people date on Tinder and other sites because most of us aren’t that good and just rocking up and introducing ourselves to random strangers and I think the very technology that Mr Cloudflare is playing a role in supporting, is playing a huge part in changing how humans interact (or don’t).

I mean if you take something like Tinder. In my 20s it would have been very unusual to have met someone online and would have been seen as a bit “weird” or dangerous. Now I’m hearing a lot of people explain how that they exclusively meet people through dating apps.

That’s a whole art of flirting and need for venues to flirt in fading away.

Wibbs

Oh it certainly depends on the individual alright. In my own family I noticed that difference even when I was a kid. My dad could put the talk on anyone and it would be reciprocated, my mother would have required a gun to her head to talk to random strangers and when she did it would be awkward for all concerned. While IMHO the introvert/extrovert model is often too simplistic and self reinforcing I grew up around near picture perfect examples of both.

AutoTuning

Different people and different cultures often have quite different ways of socialising though and they’re not all seamlessly compatible or comparable.

I think though to say that Ireland is unwelcoming to outsiders is nonsense and would suggest that the guy has never actually lived or socialised here, or is basing his view on one bad experience, or the sentiments of someone who has a massive bag of chips on their shoulder.

Ireland isn’t California, but then again California isn’t Texas and Texas isn’t Tokyo.

I find a certain element just can’t adapt to cultural differences and it’s not just Americans. I’ve seen French people get annoyed over Irish or American lack of a culture of strict, table-based dining for example and I’ve seen Irish people be utterly flabbergasted at the formality around meals in France.

The ones who get on best abroad are flexible and find these differences interesting, not challenging.

The world doesn’t adapt to fit what you grew up with. Nor is what you grew up with the only way that things are done or is it even necessarily the best way of doing things. It’s just different.

Hamachi

BloodyBill wrote: »

... and in all honesty I'm focusing on Dubs but in general Irish people are better outside of Ireland . We are more chilled out and stuff.

Have to say that this doesn’t ring true for me at all. I met a number of ‘interesting’ Irish people during my years on the continent. I found a few to be exceptionally wary of fellow Irish people.

For instance, a simple question about what part of the country they come from, elicited a pretty defensive response. Another guy had set himself up as a stage Irishman and became borderline hostile when he was no longer the only ‘paddy in the village’.

The city I lived in had less than a hundred Irish people resident there. I knew a few of the others pretty well and they had similar experiences, particularly with the latter guy who all of us had encountered during our time there. If anything, we concluded that some of the Irish weren’t being themselves and were pretty unrepresentative of people at home.

Randy Archer

AutoTuning wrote: »

No, but to be fair we do get a rather raw deal with hibernophobia and nasty stereotyping from time to time and, despite the friendliness, you can get the odd whack of it from the USA too - I’ve had to put up with a bit of it myself when living over there. Most of its harmless but it really can get a bit annoying. Like people asking me where my lucky charms are...It’s hilarious and nobody has ever thought of that joke before, but you do feel at times that all they see is a cartoon leprechaun because you don’t have an American accent.

I had some weird stuff in the USA like strange jokes about potatoes and an assumption that I’m a right wing Catholic.

American perceptions of Ireland vary but they can be very steeped in stereotypes, particularly for those that have never really spent any time here or encountered Irish people who aren’t irish Americans at a Patrick’s day event.

There’s a constant assumption that Irish (and British) food is awful. Seemingly we eat nothing but potatoes, corned beef and cabbage, while the English exist on a diet of nothing but boiled food, Toad in the ‘ole and various weird Victorian desserts that sound like unfortunate illnesses.

The result of that is its much harder to market Irish foods in the USA than it is in Europe, where there are few preconceptions about Ireland other than “very green place” or sometimes in France the perception can be extremely artsy due to their connection with Irish literature and music that crossed over the language barrier etc and the Breton connections.

The Irish Americans are worse for it . Go onto websites like Irish Central, a group previously owned by Niall O’Dowd. The articles are laughable and big up all the stereotypes with glee , always waffling about JFK too (what an overrated man) . The usual commentators, none of whom are actually Irish, are total HEAD BANGERS who still think Ireland is back in the 1950s . They are also rather self obsessed- especially during the Obama and Trump administrations ie commenting about US politics when the article is about Ireland and only Ireland . To them, you can’t be Irish unless you are a pious Catholic and boy, they are serious

Then you got (slightly) unfunny clowns like Conan O’Brien on the telly. It’s cringe when an actual Irish guest goes on his shows. Contrast that to the excellent Craig Ferguson ,who , while Scottish, was a lot more funnier and at least knows Ireland better than Conan

AutoTuning

@ Hamachi

I have seen exactly the same with French people abroad.

You’ll get people who avoid expat French types like the plague and others who are drawn to every French thing they see.

Plenty of people will absolutely play up their Frenchness too and someone else arriving isn’t always a the warmest of welcomes.

I’ve seen that same scenario play out with English people in France too.

I also know a few Americans in Ireland who tend to respond to other Americans as “agghhh! Americans run!!!”

Humans will be humans!

vriesmays

Ireland's a nation of poets because it's got very few philosophers.

storker

"Cold and unwelcoming". Well he should know, as that pretty much describes CloudFlare's customer service.

AutoTuning

Randy Archer wrote: »

The Irish Americans are worse for it . Go onto websites like Irish Central, a group previously owned by Niall O’Dowd. The articles are laughable and big up all the stereotypes with glee , always waffling about JFK too (what an overrated man) . The usual commentators, none of whom are actually Irish, are total HEAD BANGERS who still think Ireland is back in the 1950s . They are also rather self obsessed- especially during the Obama and Trump administrations ie commenting about US politics when the article is about Ireland and only Ireland . To them, you can’t be Irish unless you are a pious Catholic and boy, they are serious

Then you got (slightly) unfunny clowns like Conan O’Brien on the telly. It’s cringe when an actual Irish guest goes on his shows. Contrast that to the excellent Craig Ferguson ,who , while Scottish, was a lot more funnier and at least knows Ireland better than Conan

Yeah I find Conan quite unfunny at times, but then I’m not entirely plugged into American late night show humour. The unfunny monologues and set pieces on all those shows are often not funny at all and then you get the “zany” wisecracking that seems to be upstaging the guests.

I find though that on a few occasions I was basically expected to “do your Irish thing” and act the clown which I found really annoying after while and they’ll throw ludicrous stereotypes - particularly some guy taunted me in a bar and kept saying stuff about the “fighting Irish.”

I’ve also had people tell me “ah you’re not Irish” because I don’t meet the stereotype they expect me to.

The worst I’ve ever encountered was a tourist on the Cork to Dublin train. I was in a very quiet, off peak city gold coach, about 5 seats away from him and trying to get a ton of work done ahead of a meeting and I was on the phone a few times.

He wandered over and asked me where I was from. I said Dublin. He responded “You really need to work on your Irish accent buddy! - You sound like a Brit!”

I didn’t really know how to respond, but he kept trying to talk to me so, in the end I was pretty blunt and told him I booked the seat to be able to work en route, and would he mind leaving me alone!

No doubt he’s probably gone home going on about how unfriendly the Irish (or the Brits as he seems to think) are and we are sooo unwelcoming because I wasn’t flattered by being spoken to by some obnoxious asshat.

10000maniacs

Elite Genetics wrote: »

Quoting crap weather and unfriendliness.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/youre-not-welcoming-and-no-one-wants-to-live-there-us-billionaire-blasts-ireland-39820146.html

I think he has some valid points. It is dull and depressing, not sure I agree on friendliness though.

I think what he means by no one wants to live here is that the Irish themselves run away to Australia and Canada.

He should look more closely to home for things to complain about.
The great USA. LOL.
Institutional racism at the very top all the way down.
Don't get sick or have a serious accident if you have no money.
Don't come up against the legal system if you are black.
There is a black guy in prison who has already served 25 years of a 60 years to life sentence .....for selling hash.

Elite Genetics

10000maniacs wrote: »

He should look more closely to home for things to complain about.
The great USA. LOL.
Institutional racism at the very top all the way down.
Don't get sick or have a serious accident if you have no money.
Don't come up against the legal system if you are black.
There is a black guy in prison who has already served 25 years of a 60 years to life sentence .....for selling hash.

I remember seeing a video where a motorcyclist gets hit by a car then when paramedics try to put him in an ambulance, he's resisting and screaming saying that he can't afford it lol and would rather be left on the road to suffer.

ILoveYourVibes

Elite Genetics wrote: »

Quoting crap weather and unfriendliness.

I wonder why the people of Cork didn't like the uppity billionaire.

His Twitter is full of comments made in questionable taste.

Do I think we are overly friendly ? No. We are genuine.

We keep to ourselves.

Is the food great ...no.

He comes off as bitter. Which is a pathetic thing for a billionaire to be.

The idea of him feeling rejected by Ireland in his position is sad.

I am Irish ..I would never really strike up a conversation with a stranger. I find for the most part other Irish people don't either. Its not a great habit to have in the 21st century. Unless you live in a small town. But generally its not safe. And it does mark you out as a tourist. Which again marks you out as ...vulnerable. I wouldn't advise it.

ILoveYourVibes

AutoTuning wrote: »

Yeah I find Conan quite unfunny at times, but then I’m not entirely plugged into American late night show humour. The unfunny monologues and set pieces on all those shows are often not funny at all and then you get the “zany” wisecracking that seems to be upstaging the guests.

I find though that on a few occasions I was basically expected to “do your Irish thing” and act the clown which I found really annoying after while and they’ll throw ludicrous stereotypes - particularly some guy taunted me in a bar and kept saying stuff about the “fighting Irish.”

I’ve also had people tell me “ah you’re not Irish” because I don’t meet the stereotype they expect me to.

The worst I’ve ever encountered was a tourist on the Cork to Dublin train. I was in a very quiet, off peak city gold coach, about 5 seats away from him and trying to get a ton of work done ahead of a meeting and I was on the phone a few times.

He wandered over and asked me where I was from. I said Dublin. He responded “You really need to work on your Irish accent buddy! - You sound like a Brit!”

I didn’t really know how to respond, but he kept trying to talk to me so, in the end I was pretty blunt and told him I booked the seat to be able to work en route, and would he mind leaving me alone!

No doubt he’s probably gone home going on about how unfriendly the Irish (or the Brits as he seems to think) are and we are sooo unwelcoming because I wasn’t flattered by being spoken to by some obnoxious asshat.

I used to have to take a lot of intercountry bus routes /train routes ...i had many similar experiences.

The weird thing is ...several tour operators must put groups on the same train /bus route. Most of the people i met were coming Down From belfast after doing a tour there.

Every second American tourist wanted to talk to me about the IRA at 7 in the morning.:rolleyes:

Mad_maxx

Mr.S wrote: »

His comments are pretty OTT but I think this point, has some truth:

“You are not a very welcoming community to outsiders.". My company would hire in a tone of international people (rest of Europe mostly), and most of them always say the same thing, that the Irish people are very nice, but not welcoming unless you are part of their clique and it's hard to properly integrate at first. But once they get over that, they all love it. Apart from housing costs.

Interestingly, it's always the Americans who have the hardest / worst time integrating.

The other points on food and weather are just stupid.

we are not welcoming to people from a different part of the country , never mind a different country

we are extremely clannish and parochial as a people , its especially pronounced in the west of ireland

ILoveYourVibes

Mad_maxx wrote: »

we are not welcoming to people from a different part of the country , never mind a different country

we are extremely clannish as a people , its especially pronounced in the west of ireland

TBH most people from other parts of the country think this is the right and proper way to be.

You kind of have to marry into the place ..like marry a son of a big wheel in cork or something.

ILoveYourVibes

AutoTuning wrote: »

I also know a few Americans in Ireland who tend to respond to other Americans as “agghhh! Americans run!!!”

They tend to be the ones living here though.

ILoveYourVibes

BloodyBill wrote: »

Have to agree. My wife isn't Irish and found Dubliners extremely unfriendly but some of the older generation bucked the trend.

My dad and grandparents could be voted least likely to crack a smile.

I have to say ...i admire the honesty of this thread.

I must prefer this stereotype.

Really Ireland is STILL like the field.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Crap weather? How fukcing dare he!

Kewreeuss

Weather is great. its the lack of light that's the killer, that cloud blanket brushing the tree tops for days.

ILoveYourVibes

Kewreeuss wrote: »

Weather is great. its the lack of light that's the killer, that cloud blanket brushing the tree tops for days.

ugh it has me so depressed right now

Wibbs

The weather here is OK, not much in the way of extremes, but that makes it pretty meh. I'd much prefer actual seasons and less damp, oh god, less damp. The damp here is crazy.

On the Beach

Wibbs wrote:

The weather here is OK, not much in the way of extremes, but that makes it pretty meh. I'd much prefer actual seasons and less damp, oh god, less damp. The damp here is crazy.

One might say moist sir.

Mr.S

Mr.S wrote: »

His comments are pretty OTT but I think this point, has some truth:

“You are not a very welcoming community to outsiders.". My company would hire in a tone of international people (rest of Europe mostly), and most of them always say the same thing, that the Irish people are very nice, but not welcoming unless you are part of their clique and it's hard to properly integrate at first. But once they get over that, they all love it. Apart from housing costs.

Interestingly, it's always the Americans who have the hardest / worst time integrating.

The other points on food and weather are just stupid.

Because people have established friends. When I lived in Germany for a while I had few German friends, just friendly enough work colleagues, but got friendly with other migrants. English mostly. This is common with the exception of true world cities, places where everybody is transient.

ILoveYourVibes

On the Beach wrote: »

One might say moist sir.

How about this moldy!?

DilD

He's not far off the mark at all. Take our egos out of it and he's not wrong.

Mad_maxx

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

TBH most people from other parts of the country think this is the right and proper way to be.

You kind of have to marry into the place ..like marry a son of a big wheel in cork or something.

Yes, unless people know you're seed ,breed and generation, you're untrustworthy and quite possibly a wrong un

riclad

It depends on where you live, I dont think anyone in dublin cares where you come from as long as you are polite well mannered and law abiding
I like Irish weather because it changes every day
I would be boring to live in a country where its just
sunny everyday or maybe rains once a month
I have always found dublin people very friendly.
It might be different if you have a foreign accent or are a member of
a minority group eg Polish etc

ILoveYourVibes

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Yes, unless people know you're seed ,breed and generation, you're untrustworthy and quite possibly a wrong un

am deffo untrustworthy!:D

ILoveYourVibes

DilD wrote: »

He's not far off the mark at all. Take our egos out of it and he's not wrong.

Of course.

But tis hardly the tongue of grace itself that calls the other graceless.

Grace calls the two left feet graceful.