US billionaire calls out Ireland as "no one wants to live here"

Ardillaun

Elite Genetics wrote: »

Quoting crap weather and unfriendliness.

I think what he means by no one wants to live here is that the Irish themselves run away to Australia and Canada.

I'm very happy in Canada but the weather isn't what keeps me here. The local golf season is 5 months max after which the whole thing closes down completely.

One special pleasure on trips home to Ireland - beef and ham sandwiches. Not the same over here at all. Restaurant fare in Ireland has also come on by leaps and bounds since I left. Which I take personally.

Elite Genetics

Ardillaun wrote: »

I'm very happy in Canada but the weather isn't what keeps me here. The local golf season is 5 months max after which the whole thing closes down completely.

One special pleasure on trips home to Ireland - beef and ham sandwiches. Not the same over here at all. Restaurant fare in Ireland has also come on by leaps and bounds since I left. Which I take personally.

Good summer is guaranteed in Canada, while you wouldn't be surprised if you get 12 months of crap in Ireland and hope to get a good summer.

Elite Genetics

buried wrote: »

Its grand weather for living in Reg. Bit of rain and wind in the winter, sure what about it? Did these Silicon Valley dolls never hear of a coat or jacket? You'd think that some lad who has the term 'cloud' in his company name, he would be actually aware to what a real 'cloud' is capable of.

So if that doesn't matter, you could go and live in Siberia, Alaska or whatever. Just wear more clothes, the weather doesn't matter.

Elite Genetics

ShatterAlan wrote: »

The guy's gripe about the food is weird.


I lived in NY and never once did I get a decent salad in 7 years. I've never seen Cos lettuce in the US, just tasteless, watery iceberg lettuce. Combine that with tasteless GM tomatoes, onions, chick peas, slather the lot in sugar-laden 1000 island dressing and that's the best you get.
There are some great restaurants in NY......I love NY chinese food. But maybe it's laced with MSG. I also have a soft spot for those obnoxious, oversized deli hero sandwiches...but they cater more to gluttony than to taste-buds. As I mentioned in a previous post the staples in the US are awful. Bread, butter, milk, eggs, cheese, fruit, veg, it's all very poor quality or chemically/hormone enhanced or ruined with pesticides.



As for "friendliness".....he probably bases this on the fact that he went to a restaurant and the waitress didn't beam like a jester and blow smoke up his arse at every opportunity just to fish for tips. Like wise he probably went into a pub and did the usual "My grandfather was from County GAL-way" and got the piss taken out of him and he didn't like it.


His comments about the weather are childish too. It's all a matter of opinion and it's all relative.


Is the weather in the US great? Well what are we talking about here. I had many American ask me about the weather in Ireland and I told them that in winter it doesn't really drop below the mid 30's (F) and in summer it rarely gets much higher than about 75...normally high 60's and it rains generally once a week on average. And they exclaimed "Wow, so that's just perfect then" Go figure.


Where would you rather be in winter? Ireland or Alaska/Minnesota? Where would you rather be in July/August? Wicklow or Arizona?

I'd rather be in Alaska/Minnesota/Russia/Canada over the winter because it is so easy to protect yourself from the cold, you wear a base layer and a jacket, and that's it. The cold is completely different from Ireland, as it is so damp and wet, you progressively get colder over time, imagine jumping into a river then walking around in -5 temperature while in Canada, you would get this amazing dry, fresh cold that doesn't make you feel miserable over time. -5 in Ireland for me is way colder than -20 anywhere else. It's also very windy and rainy which adds to the difficulty.

In regards to summer, why Wicklow or Arizona are the only choices? My personal choice is Arizona of course, you'll always find a a way to cool yourself, while getting warm is much more difficult and energy consuming. But I'd take Paris, London, NYC... over Dublin anytime in summer. Dublin also has the best weather in Ireland with least amount of rain, anywhere west of Dublin is a different story, rain for majority of the days of the year.

Dempo1

jackboy wrote: »

I don’t get why Paddy is so disliked in Ireland. The only people he has a go at are corrupt politicians and other wealthy dodgy characters.

Don't you recall his little tantrum when government refused to continue to subsidise his highly profitable Web seminar, he then proceeded if I recall to belittle all things Irish, Lisbon hasn't worked out so well. I do however share his distain for FG

Dempo1

whisky_galore wrote: »

US food is sh1t.
No wonder many Yanks waddling around are the size that they are.

Fair point, I actually worked there as a chef in a teaching capacity and the food was pretty appalling, one item was there way of preparing mash potato, it was just god awful sludge and most didn't fully remove the skin. You really had to go to high end ethnic restaurants, Italian, Indian Chinese etc to find quality food.

whisky_galore

Mad_maxx wrote: »

**** coffee too

correct me if im wrong but is there less prevalence of independently owned cafes in america ?

i asked my sisters fiancee about it who is from New York and he said through much of the country its " Starbucks or nothing " ?

who would buy starbucks if they had the choice not to ?

If you saw various videos of Yanks making British "tea". Fcuk me they have no taste buds.

Hamachi

His points on the food and the weather are rubbish. As others have pointed out, the food in Ireland is generally decent and pretty healthy, assuming you’re not hitting the chipper every night. The weather is what it is. My hobbies are mainly outdoors-oriented and it’s very rare that I’m prevented from getting out for a run.

However, I do think he touched on something with the unfriendliness comment. About half my colleagues are foreigners and I’ve heard this complaint too many times for there not to be some kernel of truth in it.

Granted, some of them don’t do themselves any favors. The p***ing and moaning about the minutiae of Irish life doesn’t exactly endear them to the locals. There is also a tendency to fall into ex-pat circles, negating the opportunity to make Irish friends.

Having said all that, I have a Brazilian colleague who has been here about 5 years. A genuinely lovely guy who has made countless efforts to make Irish friends. He’s joined sports clubs, toastmasters, and even tried learning Irish. All this effort hasn’t yielded much in the way of results. The only Irish friends he’s made remain a few of us colleagues in the office. To be honest, it’s not a great testament to the alleged Irish friendliness.

Personally, I also find Irish friendships pretty shallow in general. They’re all about getting out for pints or whatever. I lived abroad for many years and found the friendships I developed there, albeit fewer, to have more substance. This was brought home to me during lockdown where I’ve been in regular contact with foreign friends, but I haven’t heard a peep from a couple of my Irish friends of 20 years standing.

Just my 2 cents..

jackboy

Hamachi wrote: »

Having said all that, I have a Brazilian colleague who has been here about 5 years. A genuinely lovely guy who has made countless efforts to make Irish friends. He’s joined sports clubs, toastmasters, and even tried learning Irish. All this effort hasn’t yielded much in the way of results. The only Irish friends he’s made remain a few of us colleagues in the office. To be honest, it’s not a great testament to the alleged Irish friendliness.

I think there is an age thing at play in general. Young Irish people up to their mid twenties will readily make lots of friends as they want people to party and do things with. Once Irish people get a partner or children they don’t need real friends anymore and just don’t have the time. That is why work friends are great as you can just forget about them when the workday is done.

Hamachi

jackboy wrote: »

I think there is an age thing at play in general. Young Irish people up to their mid twenties will readily make lots of friends as they want people to party and do things with. Once Irish people get a partner or children they don’t need real friends anymore and just don’t have the time. That is why work friends are great as you can just forget about them when the workday is done.

Good point and age is definitely a factor. We’re all in our 30s. However, having a partner and children isn’t unique to Ireland. People in other countries also get busy and become time poor as they get a little older.

What is pretty noticeable here is that Irish people do shut down when their lives become busier. As you say, they have no need for or interest in developing friendships after a certain age. From my experience abroad, I didn’t notice this same degree of ‘shut down’ at 25 or 30. My own circle of friends abroad spanned 20-somethings to lads in their 50s. This isn’t something you see very much in Ireland.

Elite Genetics

Elite Genetics wrote: »

It's not. The only place with worse weather than Ireland is Iceland..

Scotland

jackboy

Hamachi wrote: »

Good point and age is definitely a factor. We’re all in our 30s. However, having a partner and children isn’t unique to Ireland. People in other countries also get busy and become time poor as they get a little older.

What is pretty noticeable here is that Irish people do shut down when their lives become busier. As you say, they have no need for or interest in developing friendships after a certain age. From my experience abroad, I didn’t notice this same degree of ‘shut down’ at 25 or 30. My own circle of friends abroad spanned 20-somethings to lads in their 50s. This isn’t something you see very much in Ireland.

I would say almost all of the friendships Irish people have in their early 20’s are fake relationships. They only use these ‘friends’ as people to do things with but deep down don’t care for them at all. This is why they can be dropped like a stone without a second thought when circumstances change. This can be incredibly jarring for the last in the group to partner up.

Hamachi

jackboy wrote: »

I would say almost all of the friendships Irish people have in their early 20’s are fake relationships. They only use these ‘friends’ as people to do things with but deep down don’t care for them at all. This is why they can be dropped like a stone without a second thought when circumstances change. This can be incredibly jarring for the last in the group to partner up.

So Matthew Prince is right? Irish people are generally mercurial and closed off to outsiders?

jackboy

Hamachi wrote: »

So Matthew Prince is right? Irish people are generally mercurial and closed off to outsiders?

Deep down mostly closed off to insiders also. In modern Ireland true friendships are a rare thing. It might be the same in lots of other countries also but I don’t know much about them.

BloodyBill

jackboy wrote: »

Deep down mostly closed off to insiders also. In modern Ireland true friendships are a rare thing. It might be the same in lots of other countries also but I don’t know much about them.

Have to agree. My wife isn't Irish and found Dubliners extremely unfriendly but some of the older generation bucked the trend. We live in the UK now where bus drivers have a smile and shop assistants say 'thank you and have a good morning'. The friendly shop assistants in Ireland are Eastern European.
Ireland is a great country..safe and good standard of living but by God we can be smug. Tucked into the UKs defensive realm but still in Europe we feel as safe as houses. So yeah the billionaire is mostly right we love the sound of our own voices ... lots of egos in Ireland

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

Scotland

Debateable, Edinburgh got nicer weather last summer, it often avoids the constant cloud coming from the Atlantic during the summer, and when London is baking in a heatwave it often gets some of that sun that we don't get.
I spent a year there and the winter was actually quite pleasant.
Either way just because Scotland might have worse weather than ours doesn't mean ours isn't awful!

BloodyBill

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Debateable, Edinburgh got nicer weather last summer, it often avoids the constant cloud coming from the Atlantic during the summer, and when London is baking in a heatwave it often gets some of that sun that we don't get.
I spent a year there and the winter was actually quite pleasant.
Either way just because Scotland might have worse weather than ours doesn't mean ours isn't awful!

Im in Devon. The weather is the same as the Midwest in Ireland..rains a good bit but rarely snows..its a little less windy. To be honest the weather isn't a factor. Iv been to Dubai and its a hellhole with its 45 degree summers..

Hamachi

jackboy wrote: »

Deep down mostly closed off to insiders also. In modern Ireland true friendships are a rare thing. It might be the same in lots of other countries also but I don’t know much about them.

Fair enough. That wasn’t my experience abroad. People were more difficult to get to know, but were true friends once you moved past the hard outer shell.

If you’re right, that’s a pretty pessimistic view of the Irish character and wider society.

Thelonious Monk

BloodyBill wrote: »

Im in Devon. The weather is the same as the Midwest in Ireland..rains a good bit but rarely snows..its a little less windy. To be honest the weather isn't a factor. Iv been to Dubai and its a hellhole with its 45 degree summers..

I spent 2 weeks in Devon once and it was beautifully sunny and warm the whole time. Good old Brixham.
That part of England gets far nicer summers than anywhere in Ireland though, when I lived in London even in bad summers you'd still get loads of weekends that are warm and sunny.

rossie1977

Elite Genetics wrote: »

I'd rather be in Alaska/Minnesota/Russia/Canada over the winter because it is so easy to protect yourself from the cold, you wear a base layer and a jacket, and that's it. The cold is completely different from Ireland, as it is so damp and wet, you progressively get colder over time, imagine jumping into a river then walking around in -5 temperature while in Canada, you would get this amazing dry, fresh cold that doesn't make you feel miserable over time. -5 in Ireland for me is way colder than -20 anywhere else. It's also very windy and rainy which adds to the difficulty.

I was in Chicago when it was - 20c and windchill made it much colder and never experienced anything like that level of coldness in Ireland. So cold it effected breathing.

Seamai

BloodyBill wrote: »

The friendly shop assistants in Ireland are Eastern European.

My experience over the last 20 years has been quite the opposite, I've walked out of several shops and reported staff because of obnoxious attitudes most of whom were eastern European.
I've heard many Americans complaining about unfriendly staff in the hospitality sector here without realising that many of the people they were dealing with were not Irish but then by American standards anyone who isn't fawning over them is probably viewed as unfriendly.
I don't think Dublin is the friendliest city though you're right, older people are more likely to strike up a conversation than a 20 or 30 year old.

Elite Genetics

Elite Genetics wrote: »

In regards to summer, why Wicklow or Arizona are the only choices? My personal choice is Arizona of course, you'll always find a a way to cool yourself, while getting warm is much more difficult and energy consuming. But I'd take Paris, London, NYC... over Dublin anytime in summer. Dublin also has the best weather in Ireland with least amount of rain, anywhere west of Dublin is a different story, rain for majority of the days of the year.

Do you live in Arizona?, because if not you don't know if it is your actual personal choice yet. As for London and Paris, you dont even need a visa.

Hamachi

Seamai wrote: »

My experience over the last 20 years has been quite the opposite, I've walked out of several shops and reported staff because of obnoxious attitudes most of whom were eastern European.

This echoes my experience. The worst I’ve encountered from Irish retail workers is indifference.

I don’t know who decided it was a good idea to place Eastern Europeans in customer-facing roles. I’ve never bothered complaining, but the sheer hostility and obnoxiousness exhibited by a not insignificant number of EE retail staff, is breathtaking.

BloodyBill

BloodyBill wrote: »

Have to agree. My wife isn't Irish and found Dubliners extremely unfriendly but some of the older generation bucked the trend. We live in the UK now where bus drivers have a smile and shop assistants say 'thank you and have a good morning'. The friendly shop assistants in Ireland are Eastern European.

See, it clearly depends. You didn't say where you are in England but I bet it is not London. Dublin isnt the size of London but it has that modern ultra capitalist vibe, overcrowding, heavy traffic, low level criminality that you have to be aware of. People are closed off and stressed.

Edit:

Ah you actually said later you were in Devon. Its not that fair to compare Devon to Dublin, you should compare the rural Ireland to Devon. That said the south west of England is very very friendly. I was surprised to find that a female official there considered me her lover. I never met the woman.

Hamachi

Hamachi wrote: »

This echoes my experience. The worst I’ve encountered from Irish retail workers is indifference.

I don’t know who decided it was a good idea to place Eastern Europeans in customer-facing roles. I’ve never bothered complaining, but the sheer hostility and obnoxiousness exhibited by a not insignificant number of EE retail staff, is breathtaking.

Yeh, some are fine of course. But shopping in Eastern Europe, particularly Hungary, is not a joyous thing to do. I feel like I am putting them out by entering the shop. That attitude transfers to here.

whisky_galore

Hamachi wrote: »

This echoes my experience. The worst I’ve encountered from Irish retail workers is indifference.

I don’t know who decided it was a good idea to place Eastern Europeans in customer-facing roles. I’ve never bothered complaining, but the sheer hostility and obnoxiousness exhibited by a not insignificant number of EE retail staff, is breathtaking.

I don't know what shops you're going into but I've found the (presumably) Polish checkout assistants here to be great, likewise Polish in their home country.
Hungary and parts of Czech Rep are almost uniformly awful for customer service. It's like you're ruining their day by coming into their shop or cafe.

Hamachi

Hamachi wrote: »

So Matthew Prince is right? Irish people are generally mercurial and closed off to outsiders?

Irish people are cliquey as hell and always have been.

I wonder how much experience of Ireland this billionaire guy had?

If he lived here for a few years in different parts of the country, then I would take what he said more seriously. In my lifetime I have lived in the NW of Ireland which I found to be very friendly. I lived for a few years in Cork and I found the people to be friendly in a quieter sort of a way. I lived in Dublin at the start of the boom and it was the best few years Ive had in this country. I lived for a year in Derry and made a lot of good friends, the people up there I found to be very decent. The one place I found it hard to really get to know people was Waterford.

All that said, comparing today to 20 - 25 years ago, the biggest difference I can see is the way young people communicate, or are less able to communicate than young people 25 years ago. I blame the smartphones.

BloodyBill

[Deleted User] wrote: »

See, it clearly depends. You didn't say where you are in England but I bet it is not London. Dublin isnt the size of London but it has that modern ultra capitalist vibe, overcrowding, heavy traffic, low level criminality that you have to be aware of. People are closed off and stressed.

Edit:

Ah you actually said later you were in Devon. Its not that fair to compare Devon to Dublin, you should compare the rural Ireland to Devon. That said the south west of England is very very friendly. I was surprised to find that a female official there considered me her lover. I never met the woman.

I lived in London for three years. Loved the place,best city in the world in my opinion. Londoners are friendly, maybe not as open as Northerners or the West Country but extremely polite. Id say londoners are much more friendly than Dubliners and for some reason they don't have the condescending attitude that some Dubliners have. The best Dubliners iv met were in London where they have had their egos deflated and are actually in a world city. They are much more humble there ..no Culchie stuff ect... and in all honesty I'm focusing on Dubs but in general Irish people are better outside of Ireland . We are more chilled out and stuff.
Yep I'm in Devon. iv experienced the 'my lover' thing in shops. I nearly keeled over..She handed me my change and said there you go 'me lover'... its the home of the pirates..all those 17th and 18th century buccaneers are from down here. Theres Captain Jack Sparrows all over the place.

AutoTuning

One thing to bear in mind is when you move abroad you tend to move with a different mindset and circulate in different circles to home.

At home be it Ireland or anywhere else, the people in your circle are often just there because you know them for years from school or whatever, or neighbours. When you move, you have to make effort and when you’re in an international city, everyone does.

I lived in Brussels and while you’d get to know a lot of international types, making real friends are was hard. Everyone is transient and the local Brusseleers / Brusselois often don’t want to know you as they assume you’re “international” and will be gone in 2 years.

I found Boston both warm and cold. For example, my colleagues never once thought of being friendly outside organised events by the company. I had one friendly neighbour and generally spent a year there often ending up having dinner or lunch on my own. Didn’t find it a particularly friendly city and could often be quite gruff and abrasive.

I’d an absolutely brilliant time in London, but I was working in very vibrant companies and I wasn’t circulating with Londoners really at all. Most of my friends were and are either from other parts of the U.K. or were international.

Spent time in rural France and it makes the most remote far flung irish village seem like the most friendly place ever. You can’t get to know anyone, even if you speak fluent French, and they can be supremely cliquey.

Paris was also cold as ice most of the time. You can’t get to know people at all unless you somehow break into a circle and that’s not easy as it’s often around college time those circles form. There isn’t any context like a pub where you can just go and strike up random conversation. You’d just be the weirdo who’s attempting to talk to people and be totally ignored.

The only way you’ll meet people as a adult in Ireland or anywhere in my experience is to join things that create contexts. You’re not going to just encounter people on the street or in bars and suddenly become the best of friends, unless you’ve a context.

Even in university, most of my proper friendships happened in club/society contexts not just chatting to some random person in a big lecture.

Ireland’s absolutely brimming with Meetup groups, language groups, walking groups, local theatre, arts groups, live music, sports, clubs, local organisations, community projects, voluntary stuff of every type you can think of. If you get involved you meet tons of people very quickly.

Obviously most of this is paused during the pandemic, which is really not very pleasant, but hopefully life starts happening again in the next few months.

Otherwise, you’ll circulate in your secondary school groups for life.