Car ploughs through crowd in Germany

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Plain English much?

Struggle much?

Smee_Again

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Its telling that what is essentially a request to shut down an online discussion, is condoned as " anti-fash"

Me, when I first heard, my first thought was "FFS, bloody Jihadis again"

Now as facts emerge, I'm "relieved" there wasn't yet another chap who hated my culture/civilization so much he was willing to drive a jeep into a crowd of people including kids out shopping.
But I'm certainly not disappointed it wasn't a jihad attack, as I wouldn't be delighted if it had been.


Queue discussion. Thread title is accurate.
(Am I right wing?)

My first thought was for the victims.

km991148

Kivaro wrote: »

The usual response from liberals and so-called progressives who want discussions closed down as soon as a political dimension is introduced. "Censorship" = the progressive/liberal solution to an opposing view.

I'm not saying anything should be shut down, but why so keen to discuss hypothetical and false situations?

Or somehow bringing in a left Vs right angle based on the nature if the attack?

Or randomly making up facts (95% are Muslim!!). I may as well start taking the thread of in a tangent about ford cars and how if it wasn't for these imports then the attached won't happen because 95/100 a ford is used in terror attacks.

Fear breads itself.

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Not really - I made a point.

You - instead of responding, resorted to a tired cliche to divert the subject.

Yet you replied to my "tired cliché" with feigned lack of understanding, followed by a condescend remark but are now admitting this was your play, when it backfired?

You replied to me where I expressed my initial thoughts, which were replaced by an (increasingly informed) opinion as facts emerged; that I derive no satisfaction had it been a jihadi attack, or delight had it been, but somehow the very expression of said opinion is seen as possibly far right or somehow off side?

So again. Are we policing thought now?

Smee_Again

Smee_Again wrote: »

My first thought was for the victims.

I'll give you the benifet of the doubt.
It should be everyone's.

Tombo2001

km991148 wrote: »

I'm not saying anything should be shut down, but why so keen to discuss hypothetical and false situations?

Or somehow bringing in a left Vs right angle based on the nature if the attack?

Or randomly making up facts (95% are Muslim!!). I may as well start taking the thread of in a tangent about ford cars and how if it wasn't for these imports then the attached won't happen because 95/100 a ford is used in terror attacks.

Fear breads itself.

You may as well.

An alternative analysis would be:

Is there any discussion on "culture wars", "immigrant versus European" "muslim versus our civilisation" etc etc etc.... that wont bring out a large cohort of like minded people on boards.

This discussion is like clockwork, as soon as one fizzles out another one starts.

Tombo2001

Tombo2001 wrote: »

You may as well.

An alternative analysis would be:

Is there any discussion on "culture wars", "immigrant versus European" "muslim versus our civilisation" etc etc etc.... that wont bring out a large cohort of like minded people on boards.

This discussion is like clockwork, as soon as one fizzles out another one starts.

So true.

Any such discussion brings out the rabid right and the rabid left. Most start from a priori positions.
People are accused of being in either camp.
People entrench, and the middle ground shrink, as people end up endorsing / arguing views as the accusations fly.

Kivaro

Smee_Again wrote: »

Its telling that what is essentially a request for more informed discussion gets labelled as censorship.

Can't have facts getting in the way of unfounded right wing allegations.

And of course you either deliberately tried to mispresent what I said or you plainly did not comprehend the simple premise. Nowhere did I say that getting more information was censorship. I implicitly stated that I was against censoring the political dimension in the discussion i.e. "as soon as a political dimension is introduced" was targeted for censorship; not the request for more information.

I did not post in the thread until now because there was simply not enough information to determine the truth of the story. I only posted about the censorship of views that turned political. But looking at your "right-wing" accusation, I think we all know that explaining it to you might be a lost cause.

Tombo2001

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

So true.

Any such discussion brings out the rabid right and the rabid left. Most start from a priori positions.
People are accused of being in either camp.
People entrench, and the middle ground shrink, as people end up endorsing / arguing views as the accusations fly.

Thank you sir. I'll shake hands on that and return to my daily chores.

km991148

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

I'll give you the benifet of the doubt.
It should be everyone's.

And unfortunately it isn't, as we all collectively get desensitised to this sort off thing.

I do have great sympathy for the victims (and I include the driver to sone degree, whatever led him to do this is probably tragic in itself), but it's not necessarily at the forefront of this discussion.

silverharp

its not the first time something like this has happened in europe, there have been a few stories over the last few years for one reason or another but not an islamic attack, when I heard it first it was just missing the normal markers of terrorism, no shoot out, no knives, normal vehicle not a truck, not a Friday, guy was older than you would expect

spurious

Did a Muslim or brown person get his job? (desperation stakes)

Maybe it was a woman!

Cue anti-'feminism' rants, the go-to setting for some.

spurious

spurious wrote: »

Did a Muslim or brown person get his job? (desperation stakes)

Maybe it was a woman!

Cue anti-'feminism' rants, the go-to setting for some.

Username checks out anyway.

WrenBoy

spurious wrote: »

Did a Muslim or brown person get his job? (desperation stakes)

Maybe it was a woman!

Cue anti-'feminism' rants, the go-to setting for some.

Awful cold day for fishing

spurious

spurious wrote: »

Did a Muslim or brown person get his job? (desperation stakes)

Maybe it was a woman!

Cue anti-'feminism' rants, the go-to setting for some.

Ah heor

In 2017 a mentally unstable German man(not an immigrant, not a 2nd generation immigrant but ethnic German who hadn't converted to Islam) drove through a crowd in Heidelberg and the usual suspects here on boards.ie were in a frenzy using the incident as their platform to preach hate against immigrants.
That was in the thread EU Immigration Thread II and the conversation continues to be driven incessantly on various threads on boards.ie because those who seek to incite hate are given free rein around here.

https://www.stuttgarter-nachrichten.de/inhalt.prozess-um-todesfahrt-in-heidelberg-ist-der-mutmassliche-taeter-schuldunfaehig.095b929e-9d24-4634-8d20-0a52a4f9783f.html

As was the case then, the hate inciters scurry off and will wait for their next opportunity to attribute some act of madness to Immigrants from the middle east.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

In 2017 a mentally unstable German man(not an immigrant, not a 2nd generation immigrant but ethnic German who hadn't converted to Islam) drove through a crowd in Heidelberg and the usual suspects here on boards.ie were in a frenzy using the incident as their platform to preach hate against immigrants.
That was in the thread EU Immigration Thread II and the conversation continues to be driven incessantly on various threads on boards.ie because those who seek to incite hate are given free rein around here.

https://www.stuttgarter-nachrichten.de/inhalt.prozess-um-todesfahrt-in-heidelberg-ist-der-mutmassliche-taeter-schuldunfaehig.095b929e-9d24-4634-8d20-0a52a4f9783f.html

As was the case then, the hate inciters scurry off and will wait for their next opportunity to attribute some act of madness to Immigrants from the middle east.

Just curious. Is opposition to, and concerns about, mass (and often unchecked) immigration from the middle east, incitement to hatred in your view?

Smee_Again

Kivaro wrote: »

And of course you either deliberately tried to mispresent what I said or you plainly did not comprehend the simple premise. Nowhere did I say that getting more information was censorship. I implicitly stated that I was against censoring the political dimension in the discussion i.e. "as soon as a political dimension is introduced" was targeted for censorship; not the request for more information.

I did not post in the thread until now because there was simply not enough information to determine the truth of the story. I only posted about the censorship of views that turned political. But looking at your "right-wing" accusation, I think we all know that explaining it to you might be a lost cause.

But there is no political dimension to this discussion so introducing one moves it away from informed discussion, not allowing this is an act of moderation not censorship.

silverharp

spurious wrote: »

Did a Muslim or brown person get his job? (desperation stakes)

Maybe it was a woman!

Cue anti-'feminism' rants, the go-to setting for some.

Corona related? lost his job , business?

km991148

silverharp wrote: »

Corona related? lost his job , business?

It's the mass importation of Ford motor vehicles that is allowing this nonsense to continue.
I'm telling ya. No Ford's, no attacks.

We need to ban them all.

Gervais08

km991148 wrote: »

It's the mass importation of Ford motor vehicles that is allowing this nonsense to continue.
I'm telling ya. No Ford's, no attacks.

We need to ban them all.

I’m glad you find attacks such as Nice to be such wonderful comedy fodder for your righteous posts.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Just curious. Is opposition to, and concerns about, mass (and often unchecked) immigration from the middle east, incitement to hatred in your view?

It is possible to hold the view that hate speech should be fought while not being in favour of uncontrolled immigration and open borders.
The majority of Germans have huge concerns about open borders while still holding their constitution which forbids hate speech. They punished the CDU in the last election because of the political(humanitarian) policy they pushed too aggressively in 2015.
None of this has anything to do with the thread title of "Car Ploughs through crowd in Germany"

In the future at least we will not be speculating if someone passed out behind the wheel because nearly all new cars are now fitted with Automatic Emergency Braking.

Is rejection of an ideology that would have one drive a vehicle deliberately into a crowd of shoppers incitement to hatred now?

Jeez, strange times.

Gervais08

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It is possible to hold the view that hate speech should be fought while not being in favour of uncontrolled immigration and open borders.
The majority of Germans have huge concerns about open borders while still holding their constitution which forbids hate speech. They punished the CDU in the last election because of the political(humanitarian) policy they pushed too aggressively in 2015.
None of this has anything to do with the thread title of "Car Ploughs through crowd in Germany"

In the future at least we will not be speculating if someone passed out behind the wheel because nearly all new cars are now fitted with Automatic Emergency Braking.

Given that incitement to hate speech is a crime - either show examples or withdraw.

greendom

Gervais08 wrote: »

Given that incitement to hate speech is a crime - either show examples or withdraw.

The irony !

Gervais08

Gervais08 wrote: »

Given that incitement to hate speech is a crime - either show examples or withdraw.

I'm not engaging with the likes of you.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It is possible to hold the view that hate speech should be fought while not being in favour of uncontrolled immigration and open borders.

Its your defining of hate speech and incitement that I can't reconcile.

It's too vague, and, especially when the accusation is levelled at posters here, makes no sense.

Gervais08

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Is rejection of an ideology that would have one drive a vehicle deliberately into a crowd of shoppers incitement to hatred now?

Jeez, strange times.

I condemned the monster who beheaded a woman while at mass. I imagine the Guards are getting the charge sheet ready as we speak.

Yeah this one was a lunatic with a drink issue - the next one wont be and the perpetrators will be so thankful for the support of some posters on here.

WrenBoy

Deleted User wrote: »

Its your defining of hate speech and incitement which I can't reconcile.

It's too vague, and, especially when the accusation is levelled at posters here, makes no sense.

That's not an accident, it needs to be vague, then people are never sure if they are falling afoul of it and so never even approach the topics at all.

Exhibit A:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115480617&postcount=24