Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

aloooof

Solutionking wrote: »

Did Casey not start a dead rubber last year when Munster was already knocked out? or maybe I am going nuts

That would've been the Ospreys game; iirc, Munster were still in with a (slim) chance of qualifying if results went their way, so he started on the bench.

sydthebeat

aloooof wrote: »

That would've been the Ospreys game; iirc, Munster were still in with a (slim) chance of qualifying if results went their way, so he started on the bench.

he got 12 minutes that game

CMcsporty

Clegg wrote: »

There are plenty of reasons to criticise Farrell's tenure as Ireland head coach, but the one real positive has been his willingness to integrate new, younger players into the side.

The four players you've singled out are poor examples anyway. For three of the four you've mentioned there are perfectly good reasons why they haven't been involved during this tournament. Baird was injured and has only recently recovered. He couldn't train with Ireland during his injury period so it made nonsense to cap him. He was in the squad for the Italy game last March that was cancelled so he's clearly in Farrell's plans.

Harry Byrne and Craig Casey are probably Ireland's future 9&10, but both are inexperienced at pro level and need more time there. Byrne especially will have benefited from the uninterrupted stretch of games as Leinsters first choice 10. It's better for his long term development than being third or fourth choice in the Ireland squad and not even once getting onto the pitch.

Criticising Farrell for not picking Daly more is a bit unfair when you consider he's already capped two new outside backs in the last few months. Keenan and Lowe also need time to prove their worth. Can't give time to everyone.

I think he should have done more and he would also have gained more from it this autumn and into the near future.

& They are good examples!
They were all in the original squad in some form.
Baird was injured yes, but he was back playing for Leinster the week before & could have played those 18mins v Georgia.
I can see the merits in giving Harry & Ross Pro14 minutes and also Ireland minutes. Particularly v Georgia

The Daly one is a head scratcher for me. I know he picked up a knock when he joined camp but after that?
I think he looks the best FB option out of Stockdale and Keenan
Farrell see different!
Why keep in camp of 7 weeks... 8 weeks and only give him 18mins?

There is a guy who would have benefitted from Pro14 minutes & those "18mins" of playing with Ireland.
Again.....why is Earls playing again this wk?

Solutionking

CMcsporty wrote: »

I think he should have done more and he would also have gained more from it this autumn and into the near future.

& They are good examples!
They were all in the original squad in some form.
Baird was injured yes, but he was back playing for Leinster the week before & could have played those 18mins v Georgia.
I can see the merits in giving Harry & Ross Pro14 minutes and also Ireland minutes. Particularly v Georgia

The Daly one is a head scratcher for me.
I think he looks the best FB option out of Stockdale and Keenan
Farrell see different!
Why keep in camp of 7 weeks... 8 weeks and only give him 18mins?

There is a guy who would have benefitted from Pro14 minutes.

This was discussed on radio. The players in Ireland and in provinces are in a bubble, They can't just bring players in/out as before because if someone get covid you risk bringing down not just the national team but potentially one of the provinces.

So that why you didn't see as big a move up/down between the provinces.
Based on that you have to say he introduced a lot players.

P.Walnuts

Former Former Former wrote: »

Glad to see Henshaw at 12 and Aki at 13, looks to me to be the better arrangement.

Otherwise, it's all a bit meh.

Clarification issued, Henshaw at 13 now

redmca2

Can anyone explain the logic of Chris Farrell as No 23?
If we lose 1 of our back 3, how does he fit in?

Squidgy Black

redmca2 wrote: »

Can anyone explain the logic of Chris Farrell as No 23?
If we lose 1 of our back 3, how does he fit in?

Henshaw to 15 and then push Stockdale out to the wing maybe?

phog

Solutionking wrote: »

This was discussed on radio. The players in Ireland and in provinces are in a bubble, They can't just bring players in/out as before because if someone get covid you risk bringing down not just the national team but potentially one of the provinces.

So that why you didn't see as big a move up/down between the provinces.
Based on that you have to say he introduced a lot players.

But we had players released back to their province to play Pro14 and then recalled to camp, so the bubble wasn't really a bubble at all.

hahashake

Former Former Former wrote: »

Glad to see Henshaw at 12 and Aki at 13, looks to me to be the better arrangement.

Otherwise, it's all a bit meh.

https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1334530640075780097

Former Former Former

redmca2 wrote: »

Can anyone explain the logic of Chris Farrell as No 23?
If we lose 1 of our back 3, how does he fit in?

Given Henshaw's record, it's by far the most likely scenario that #23 will be needed in the centre.

I'd say Gibson-Park would do a job on the wing if it came to it.

Solutionking

phog wrote: »

But we had players released back to their province to play Pro14 and then recalled to camp, so the bubble wasn't really a bubble at all.

Who?

Bazzo

Solutionking wrote: »

Who?

Ultan Dillane has been a few times I think

Solutionking

Bazzo wrote: »

Ultan Dillane has been a few times I think

I wasn't aware. I am just going on what was said on RTE about the lack of movement between the provinces and the national team

Jump_In_Jack

redmca2 wrote: »

Can anyone explain the logic of Chris Farrell as No 23?
If we lose 1 of our back 3, how does he fit in?

Chris Farrell has trained on the wing, he can cover centre and wing.
Fullback can be covered by Henshaw and Farrell can come into the centre, or else Ross Byrne can cover fullback.

OneLungDavy

Chris Farell could certainly do a job on the wing. He has decent pace and is quite good in the air, seems to have the athleticism for it.

Dog Botherer

would be interested in seeing a Aki-Earls-Farrell 12-13-14 lineup. two big men to make space for the dancing feet of Earls. lack of tape on Farrell at 14 would make it difficult for teams to analyze. could be worth a go as a one off strategy to bamboozle a bigger team.

Buer

There's no way Farrell would ever be considered for a start in the back three unless he had played there a number of times at provincial level; he has 1 start there 6 years ago and nothing since.

Whatever about his attacking play (and I don't think for a moment it would be the best use of his attacking abilities either), on the other side of the ball, there's a significant amount of work to be done off the ball in terms of working as a unit, covering the back field, knowing when to drop off, decision making as the wide man in the defensive line etc. We have a number of back three options available including guys whose best years are ahead of them. I don't think there would be much benefit to forcing a round peg into a square hole in their place.

If there's an injury in the back three, it's unlikely that the result would be anything other than Farrell to centre, Henshaw to full back and Stockdale to the wing.

ersatz

It's a stretch to criticize Farrell for not capping some of the younger players given that he has capped so many in the last year. He's given a lot of players chances and some of those risks have paid off. If I have a selection problem with Farrell it's that established players showing poor form tend to keep their places when we've seen time and again that sometimes veterans need a kick in the arse and being dropped is that kick. You see it routinely with successful test teams that rotation and ruthlessness pays dividends. Connor Murray's game has improved significantly as a result, for example, same goes with POM. Whenever he is benched he finds another gear. It's pretty basic psychology. And those new players that he's capped this year mean that rotation is becoming more of an option for him.

I think there are reasons for optimism, and that's assuming Farrell has a tactical plan in progress. We've seen bits and pieces of it and were it not for a few errors like poor kicks, knock ons and dodgy passes the mood would be more positive. Sloppy breakdown work is another of those areas that where marginal improvements produce outsize results.Those mistakes can be ironed out, as can set piece inconsistency. Once Farrell's team settles and a few things click Ireland could be a force. Next years 6N will be telling. England look like a team that has plateaued to me, they've still got a great pack but Ireland held their own last time out (line out shambles not withstanding). For me consistency in the basics of the game and eliminating errors and Ireland look far more competitive than they've been so far in AF's tenure. Add in Levy and a couple of other MIA's and we are back to par. There is an obvious creativity problem in the backs and big carriers are past their sell by date as the main option, but we do have some young players knocking on the door who have promise. But even as is sorting out the errors and set piece malaise sees Ireland as a hard team to beat, again.

Tomtom364

Buer wrote: »

There's no way Farrell would ever be considered for a start in the back three unless he had played there a number of times at provincial level; he has 1 start there 6 years ago and nothing since.

Whatever about his attacking play (and I don't think for a moment it would be the best use of his attacking abilities either), on the other side of the ball, there's a significant amount of work to be done off the ball in terms of working as a unit, covering the back field, knowing when to drop off, decision making as the wide man in the defensive line etc.We have a number of back three options available including guys whose best years are ahead of them. I don't think there would be much benefit to forcing a round peg into a square hole in their place.

If there's an injury in the back three, it's unlikely that the result would be anything other than Farrell to centre, Henshaw to full back and Stockdale to the wing.

Lacking that dosnt seem to keep James Lowe outta teams

Burkie1203

I think we win today by 10-12 points, More because Scotland are poor side, who make a lot of poor decisions then anything else.

Am very disappointed we haven't been a bit braver with a few selections, the team has a big hint of "tried and trusted" about it and we have seen that before and finding think giving the likes of EOS and Daly a start would necessarily weaken the team.

Solutionking

I think we will lose, we have no scrum and I honestly think at this stage we need a big loss against a team like Scotland to reset the whole team.
Listening to a podcast in the car yesterday and calls for all the internationals to get resigned. Just crazy

The Lost Sheep

Not sure if mentioned yet but we win today and beat the Scots in March we will have more wins than losses against a side from original 5 Nations/3 nations for first time ever.
We have 65 wins and Scots 66 with 5 draws in 136 games.

Richie_Rich89

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Not sure if mentioned yet but we win today and beat the Scots in March we will have more wins than losses against a side from original 5 Nations/3 nations for first time ever.
We have 65 wins and Scots 66 with 5 draws in 136 games.

Scotland would still have one more championship to their name unless Ireland win the title next year. And they've made a RWC semi.

bilston

How do I watch this match in Northern Ireland? It's not on C4 from what I can see, and RTE is geo blocked.

Edit - Amazon Prime for the second class Irish rugby fans then...RoI rugby fans get to watch Ireland for free (well.cost of license fee)...NI fans have to pay extra...the IRFU should be ashamed of this arrangement.

Dog Botherer

Solutionking wrote: »

I think we will lose, we have no scrum and I honestly think at this stage we need a big loss against a team like Scotland to reset the whole team.
Listening to a podcast in the car yesterday and calls for all the internationals to get resigned. Just crazy

what? i thought it was the lineout that was crap. can we get some consistency here lads.

Paul Smeenus

Eighties soft-rock-tastic!!

Dave_The_Sheep

I actually had to mute the TV there. Every time you think it can't get worse ...

Burkie1203

Scotland are so dumb

awec

match thread open now

beggars_bush

We still don't have a decent full back who can read a game and defend.
What are the actual game tactics?
Kick to touch for field posession? Our lineout isn't capable of providing any quality ball
Box kick and challenge in air or on ground?
Grubbers through? Saw one yesterday for Keenan.
Move ball away from contact in first phase? Non existent

Someone enlighten me?