Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

shootermacg

I hope they start giving young Tom Ahern some game-time at Munster. He could be the answer to the lineout issues and much more besides. Only 20 but still 110kg with plenty of room for more.

UAEguy2020

Solutionking wrote: »

The introduction of the SA teams hopefully will make the league stronger.

Why would you throw out Ross Byrne at club level? his two real chances have come against England in twickers. He could be a quality 10 for Leinster in Pro14 and HC for years.

We can't compare ourselves to the French or English. They have a huge amount of players to pick from which we don't have, plus a more competitive league. We have benefits and they have benefits. At the moment we just need some more competitive games in Pro14

With the amount of players we have available we should not be throwing good club players away at the drop of a hat

How were we good in 2018 if the pro14 is an issue then? Surely once again this is us looking for a scape goat instead of fixing the actual problem.

[Deleted User]

Solutionking wrote: »

The introduction of the SA teams hopefully will make the league stronger.

Why would you throw out Ross Byrne at club level? his two real chances have come against England in twickers. He could be a quality 10 for Leinster in Pro14 and HC for years.

We can't compare ourselves to the French or English. They have a huge amount of players to pick from which we don't have, plus a more competitive league. We have benefits and they have benefits. At the moment we just need some more competitive games in Pro14

With the amount of players we have available we should not be throwing good club players away at the drop of a hat

I didn't' say throw out

I said demoted below his brother at Leinster

with a poor league and the other issues that I mentioned there is no choice but to be ruthless here, especially in the current situation.

In 2018 we had a good Sexton, now he's a fading force, at best and fast-tracking of the prospects is urgently required.

Solutionking

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

How were we good in 2018 if the pro14 is an issue then? Surely once again this is us looking for a scape goat instead of fixing the actual problem.

Glasgow, Scarlets etc had decent teams in 2018 and have gone massively down hill. If I remember correctly Glasgow beat Leinster in the RDS in 2018. Beat them earlier on in season as well.

Now Leinster get a bonus point victory no problem away.
The quality of the teams have gone off a cliff in last few years. The Welsh teams if they have internationals don't play them anymore. The Scots are just sending everyone to England/France. The Italian I am not sure if Treviso have got better or everyone else worse.

UAEguy2020

Solutionking wrote: »

Glasgow, Scarlets etc had decent teams in 2018 and have gone massively down hill. If I remember correctly Glasgow beat Leinster in the RDS in 2018. Beat them earlier on in season as well.

Now Leinster get a bonus point victory no problem away.
The quality of the teams have gone off a cliff in last few years. The Welsh teams if they have internationals don't play them anymore. The Scots are just sending everyone to England/France. The Italian I am not sure if Treviso have got better or everyone else worse.

And look whats happened to Wales in the process...


If thats the case why with 27 of 31 players playing in the pro14 did Wales perform so well at the RWC?

Solutionking

glasso wrote: »

I didn't' say throw out

I said demoted below his brother at Leinster

with a poor league and the other issues that I mentioned there is no choice but to be ruthless here, especially in the current situation.

In 2018 we had a good Sexton, now he's a fading force, at best and fast-tracking of the prospects is urgently required.

The problem with Ross is 1. I really like him 2. they only seem to play him v England away
I am not sure Leinster would be on for absolutely killing his confidence now by telling him he is 3rd behind his young brother and a OAP(please note I love Sexton as well)
I think the IRFU wanted a Sexton ype character to come and take the jersey off Jonny like he did off ROG but it doesn't seem to be happening so they need to tell him he isn't getting a new contract at the end of season and really start to move him out but not to drop from squad. They need him to teach the young 10 in Leinster but also at international level.

Like this weekend. Start one of the other options and have Sexton on the bench. If we lose to Scotland apart from the crazy people nobody will give a s**t if we see a good performance from the team and some glimpse of the future

Bazzo

sydthebeat wrote: »

3 or 4 players leave all the time.

Off the top of my head (with a little Google help) , within the last 10 years, Conor gilsenan, noel Reid, Jack regan, Conan o donnell, oli jager, Bryan Byrne, Niall anett, Brett herron, callum Black, paddy Jackson, Sean o brien, Ian Madigan, Ian keatley, Ian Nagle, mick kearney, Jerry Sexton, Michael heaney, brendan macken, Peter lydon, David Johnson, Ryan foley, des merry, Conor Joyce, Mark Flanagan, tadgh mcelroy, James lennon, paddy Ryan, Rory parata, Sean scanlan, Jordan coughlan, oisin Heffernan, Shane buckley , Shane o leary, gearoid lyons, Craig teanor, donnacha Ryan, Simon Zebo, paddy butler, Dave Ryan, Denis coulson, Duncan casey, Frank Ryan, Stuart olding, Jamie hagan, Dan touhy, eamon Sheridan, Steve mcmahon, Justin fitzpatrick, Dylan fawsitt, cathal Marsh, James Rochford, paddy Ryan, Ross deacon, will Leonard, Mark o keeffe, Marcus Walsh, Jamie dever, Charlie Connolly, Conor Murphy, Sam Windsor, all left the Irish provincal systems to play abroad


I think that's about 60 ish

Can't believe you left out Ben Betts

[Deleted User]

Solutionking wrote: »

The problem with Ross is 1. I really like him 2. they only seem to play him v England away
I am not sure Leinster would be on for absolutely killing his confidence now by telling him he is 3rd behind his young brother and a OAP(please note I love Sexton as well)
I think the IRFU wanted a Sexton ype character to come and take the jersey off Jonny like he did off ROG but it doesn't seem to be happening so they need to tell him he isn't getting a new contract at the end of season and really start to move him out but not to drop from squad. They need him to teach the young 10 in Leinster but also at international level.

Like this weekend. Start one of the other options and have Sexton on the bench. If we lose to Scotland apart from the crazy people nobody will give a s**t if we see a good performance from the team and some glimpse of the future

but I don't see any way around being ruthless here if the desire is to develop a 10 with proper game experience

I don't know what sort of character Harry Byrne is personally but if he is to "take the jersey" from Sexton he needs to be given the chances at Leinster to do so

Sexton is too selfish about staying on himself to give a fook to give him a helping hand

It's all a bit paternalistic in regards to 10's especially imo in Ireland

"wait your turn boy"

jacothelad

sydthebeat wrote: »

if sexton is 90%, he starts

at this stage i think Burns has passed out Ross as sextons back up

Burns looks a step up from Ross. He looks like a 10, Ross looks like a bog standard 15 shovelled in at 10.

[Deleted User]

jacothelad wrote: »

Burns looks a step up from Ross. He looks like a 10, Ross looks like a bog standard 15 shovelled in at 10.

there are only so many chances you get at international level

Ross Byrne was handed tough propositions against England as starter yes.

But against limited opposition where they played in the same match so comparison is valid Burns was more effective

Solutionking

jacothelad wrote: »

Burns looks a step up from Ross. He looks like a 10, Ross looks like a bog standard 15 shovelled in at 10.

Not really true is that? Ross has shown he is more than capable at both pro 14 and HC level playing against the top teams in France and England. Trying to say he is bog standard is BS to be honest.

Burns looked good in the time he got on the pitch I agree

molloyjh

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

And look whats happened to Wales in the process...


If thats the case why with 27 of 31 players playing in the pro14 did Wales perform so well at the RWC?

How well did they really perform? Their pool was a simple one. Even easier than ours. Then they had a shambolic France in the QFs. Even with our form in 2019 we still beat them relatively handy in the 6Ns. Then Wales lost to SA in a low scoring game. Where was their great performance in that tournament?

Richie_Rich89

Just seen the Stockdale "forward" pass. Man, a lot of people simply don't understand physics.

[Deleted User]

molloyjh wrote: »

How well did they really perform? Their pool was a simple one. Even easier than ours. Then they had a shambolic France in the QFs. Even with our form in 2019 we still beat them relatively handy in the 6Ns. Then Wales lost to SA in a low scoring game. Where was their great performance in that tournament?

Yes I agree that they were lucky more than anything in the world cup

France shot themselves in the head with that red-card in the QF

you're not exactly remotely correct about the 6N in 2019 tho where you may have missed out on the fact that they won the grand slam and hammered a shyte Ireland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtZuz0Mvfck

molloyjh

glasso wrote: »

Yes I agree that they were lucky more than anything in the world cup

France shot themselves in the head with that red-card in the QF

you're not exactly remotely correct about the 6N in 2019 tho where you may have missed out on the fact that they won the grand slam and hammered a shyte Ireland

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtZuz0Mvfck

I meant France.

UAEguy2020

molloyjh wrote: »

How well did they really perform? Their pool was a simple one. Even easier than ours. Then they had a shambolic France in the QFs. Even with our form in 2019 we still beat them relatively handy in the 6Ns. Then Wales lost to SA in a low scoring game. Where was their great performance in that tournament?

Australia in the pool stage was pretty good I thought and they really brought it to SA in the SF, yes they had a pretty forgiving pathway to a Semi Final but they atleast showed guts in the big games, which cant be said for Ireland, Ireland rolled over against NZL and Japan when the going got tough. If they gave it their all and it just wasnt good enough then there really isnt much we can do but when you show no fight at all and lose its a problem.


Yes we were dreadful in 2019 and still beat the French but it has to be said the French team in the RWC was coached by Galltie (It says Brunel was the head coach but that was only by name from what I gathered) and were definetly a different beast but made alot of sloppy errors which cost them, coming back into that game despite playing way underpar showed real character which cant be said for Ireland who just gave up once Japan took the lead.


Whatever the problem has been at the RWC it certainly isnt the league the Irish players play in because Wales disprove that and even in the previous World Cup Wales & Scotland put in far better showing's in their QF's than Ireland did who went to sleep for 20 minutes and conceded 20 points.

[Deleted User]

molloyjh wrote: »

I meant France.

fair enough.

I read it as Wales - sorry!

Some Yoke

Ireland team talk: Come on you boys in luminous yellow and black

Yeah_Right

Burns, Byrne, Byrne 2.0, Carty, none of them are going to be Ireland's long term solution at 10. They are all going to be swept aside by Healy as he takes bitch-slaps Sexton and takes the jersey. Just wait for the inter-pro after Xmas. Healy will emerge from that game as the best 10 in the country.

Solutionking

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Burns, Byrne, Byrne 2.0, Carty, none of them are going to be Ireland's long term solution at 10. They are all going to be swept aside by Healy as he takes bitch-slaps Sexton and takes the jersey. Just wait for the inter-pro after Xmas. Healy will emerge from that game as the best 10 in the country.

Word is Healy is on the way to Glasgow

Yeah_Right

Solutionking wrote: »

Word is Healy is on the way to Glasgow

YOU SHUT YOUR FILTHY MOUTH!!!!!! :mad:

[Deleted User]

Solutionking wrote: »

Word is Healy is on the way to Glasgow

they are planning on Billy Burns-ing him.

is this real or just a contract ploy?

bilston

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Just seen the Stockdale "forward" pass. Man, a lot of people simply don't understand physics.

The TMO and ref made some bull***t rule up on the fly. I think they felt sorry Georgia to be honest.

Leinstertomas

What do people think about the team for Scotland?
Ryan has been underwhelming since injury and thought he looked wrecked quite early on against Georgia. Henderson and Beirne have played well so would start them with Ryan coming on with a point to prove maybe.
VdF surely comes in to start and I'm hoping he makes a statement. But do we go with both Stander and Doris or does O'Mahony start? A few weeks ago I wasn't too keen on O'Mahony starting but he has been one of our better players and with lineout misfiring I wouldn't be surprised if he does.
I didn't manage to to pay full attention to last quarter on Sunday- how did Marmion do? I would like to see him play
I'd go with Keenan Stockdale and Conway as a back 3 and maybe Daly on bench but Earls will probably be included in some form.

AbusesToilets

Leinstertomas wrote: »

What do people think about the team for Scotland?
Ryan has been underwhelming since injury and thought he looked wrecked quite early on against Georgia. Henderson and Beirne have played well so would start them with Ryan coming on with a point to prove maybe.
VdF surely comes in to start and I'm hoping he makes a statement. But do we go with both Stander and Doris or does O'Mahony start? A few weeks ago I wasn't too keen on O'Mahony starting but he has been one of our better players and with lineout misfiring I wouldn't be surprised if he does.
I didn't manage to to pay full attention to last quarter on Sunday- how did Marmion do? I would like to see him play
I'd go with Keenan Stockdale and Conway as a back 3 and maybe Daly on bench but Earls will probably be included in some form.

I'd like to see Dillane get a start. Not convinced Beirne is a test standard lock. He's played really well of late in fairness,ayne his best in Green, bit I think he's better in the backrow.

Leinstertomas

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I'd like to see Dillane get a start. Not convinced Beirne is a test standard lock. He's played really well of late in fairness,ayne his best in Green, bit I think he's better in the backrow.

Yeah I agree that Beirne is definitely better at 6. Would not have had him starting in second row at all a few weeks ago but he has impressed me. Wouldn't mind Dillane starting at all though

ersatz

Former Former Former wrote: »

In fairness, very few of them are relevant to the national team, the vast majority left because they had to if they wanted to play pro rugby. TBH, there's a few in there I'd never even heard of.

The only people who really left while still wanted here have been Johnny Sexton (you forgot him), D Ryan, Madigan and Zebo - and really only Sexton was crucial, D Ryan not far behind but Madigan and Zebo were not huge losses. The likes of O'Brien and Paul O'Connell were winding down and looking for a final payday.

The big losers of an exodus abroad would be the provinces. The national team might have to swallow its pride and start picking the exiles but the provinces would be screwed.

Yeah, that's the big downside of players abroad qualifying to play for Irl. The provinces are already so-so in Europe, they're semi final quality most of the time. Think Scottish and Welsh sides if our best players can move abroad and still play Internationally. The Australian compromise was introduced because they really didn't have the domestic players to field a serious and competitive team relative to who was already abroad, and the domestic game in Oz is in freefall with the clubs rarely holding their own against the best of SA and NZ. Crowds fairly abysmal too. Lets remember that when Australia brought in the "Giteau rule" it got them to the 2015 RWC final, if Ireland were in a position to get to a final of the RWC by allowing players based abroad to play...we're not.

Right now in Ireland the vast majority of players who leave are not in the mix for International places and we have a surplus of young players looking for game time. It makes sense for them to leave and the IRFU is seemingly committed to bringing them back once they reach the required quality/experience to compete for places on the Irish team. Beirne and Farrell are examples and there are a few others. People keep bringing up Zebo and Ryan as evidence that this system is failing but we lost maybe one season of Ryan as part of the 23 and Zebo is like a lot of our wingers/FBs. He's a flyer with ball in hand but if he was playing for Ireland today people would be ****ting the bed over his poor work rate, ruck hitting, etc. He would be in the mix but he is not the player who would change our fortunes greatly, and I don't think he would have dislodged RK from his spot any earlier than happened.

molloyjh

Is Conway fit? Didn't think he was.

I think we'll see:

Healy Kelleher Bealham
Henderson Ryan
Stander Doris POM

JGP Sexton
Henshaw Farrell
Earls Stockdale Keenan

Herring, EOS, Porter, Roux, VDF, Murray, R Byrne, Daly

Thrashssacre

Lots of talent coming through the ranks think in a couple of years we'll have a match day 23 something like: JOB/Shane daly, balacoone, Aki,ringrose lowe, Healy , cooney, dorris, Connor, leavy, baird, Ryan, furlong, Kelleher, killer

Porter, Sheehan, O'Sullivan, coombes, casey, h byrne, henshaw, stockdale/larmour

Solutionking

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Lots of talent coming through the ranks think in a couple of years we'll have a match day 23 something like: JOB/Shane daly, balacoone, Aki,ringrose lowe, Healy , cooney, dorris, Connor, leavy, baird, Ryan, furlong, Kelleher, killer

Porter, Sheehan, O'Sullivan, coombes, casey, h byrne, henshaw, stockdale/larmour

Neither Cooney or Kilcoyne will be in the future 23.