Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082859#Comment_122082859

I thought the criticism of Munster for overdoing it in the revamp of Thomond was well wide of the mark. Munster's ambition should be to fill that stadium as many times as possible every year and when they do get back to the level where they are contending for Europe and winning it they will fill it.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082929#Comment_122082929

We will seldom fill it for regular URC games, Leinster don't fill a much smaller RDS for similar games but yes, Munster need to get more bums on seats and for more games. To be fair to the URC their scheduling has been much better than previous versions of the same tournament e.g. during one RWC we had 3 X 6 O'C kick offs on a Friday evening, one of those being away from home.

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082859#Comment_122082859

Without drifting off point, there's an argument that not only is the Aviva too small for the vast majority of international matches, Croke Park is too big for the vast majority of GAA matches. Only in Ireland!

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083053#Comment_122083053

It's a fair point but the pitch in the Aviva is too small for GAA and the pitch in Croke park is frankly a bit **** for rugby. It's unfortunate.

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082665#Comment_122082665

It’s used so much, especially at this time of year there are finals on all day Sunday for weeks, 2 clubs using it constantly. As you say Ranelagh GAA rent it. My u9s were down there playing on Sunday morning.
schools matches, the Leinster ladies team I think, Leinster sub academy use it. Plus I’m sure other games we don’t really hear about. The investment in those two pitches has been one of the best decisions made in domestic rugby. It’s a great facility.
I understand it’s close to due to be re laid soon

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083145#Comment_122083145

Yes. GAA pitch is 145 x 90m playing area wheres try line to try line in rugby is 100m and width is 70m.

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083228#Comment_122083228

Yeah but apart from that it's a complete white elephant!

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083232#Comment_122083232

Yeah, it's not just a little large, it's an 86% bigger surface.

RichieRich_89

If Scott Wilson isn't already better than Jager it's a close run thing, and I'd be surprised if his ceiling doesn't end up being significantly higher. The third choice tighthead isn't likely to see much (if any) actual gametime given it's only a two-Test series, so Wilson is likely to get more out of being involved than Jager would. I'd like to see Wilson get the nod to back up Furlong and Bealham - that's assuming Tom O'Toole will go more as a loosehead, but maybe that won't be the case.

Where O'Toole fits in is interesting. The three best looseheads in Ireland right now are Porter, Healy and Loughman, but will Farrell try to develop TOT as a loosehead instead of Healy or Loughman? Maybe he goes covering both sides. Farrell has selected only 5 props in squads in the past.

Ardillaun

Thoughts? Perhaps PR for the upcoming fixtures?

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/arrogant-ireland-underestimated-new-zealand-at-the-world-cup-says-springbok-eben-etzebeth/a359171887.html

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083726#Comment_122083726

Could be mind games from Ireland, letting the South Africans know how confident they were and also trying to get the South African players thinking about the Final so they took their eye off the QF against France a bit.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082929#Comment_122082929

I agree with this post but it is only the case because Munster have the provincial sugar daddy IRFU to help get them out of the hole they're in.

Redeveloping a stadium with top tier facilities and it very rarely coming anywhere close to filling it would have been a financial disaster for most privately owned clubs - leaving a club extremely hamstrung, if not facing bankruptcy.

Never a wise decision to build a stadium that is only close to full on big days, but when you have the safety of the IRFU backing you might as well go big and ask for forgiveness later.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083787#Comment_122083787

This is the kind of thinking that has many of our posters here talking about rugby in Ireland as if it were organised in some other way than it is. The IRFU is the politburo, provinces aren't privately owned or ordinary stand alone businesses anymore than county teams of the GAA are. My local GAA club that has membership of a few hundred people and has a couple of pitches and an all weather fenced training area plus a club house and bar that can cater to a few hundred people at a time. There is no spectator seating and I'd say it would be a rare day when you'd have a hundred spectators there. It would be gone in 6 months if you looked at it as some sort of P&L oriented private business. Many rugby clubs are no different, maybe without the parish halll style club house. These are not viable businesses, but the sport is viable so its organised nationwide in a way that maximises the sporting and participation gain from what resources are available. Judging Thomond's development by reference to gate receipts over the course of a few years might be interesting but its irrelevant.

Neil3030

Leinster have absorbed close to 20 years of opportunity costs from catering, corporate hospitality and third party event rental incomes that could have been generated had they developed their own modern midsized stadium in South Dublin.

When you consider Dublin's economic growth in the last decade in particular, they could be charging absolutely stupid money for corporate suites these days. Serious opportunity missed thanks to dreadful vision and leadership.

Thankfully they at least have their IRFU sugar daddy to bail them out each year, as their operations would otherwise be terminally unsustainable.

sydthebeat

And there's the shark jumping........

Well done all

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083726#Comment_122083726

That's just something you say as a sort of commiseration. Etzebeth talking shite as usual.

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084078#Comment_122084078

I probably should have quoted the offending post, in hindsight, but in case it wasn't clear, that was a parody. Scroll back a few posts.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084167#Comment_122084167

Ah thanks makes sense now Neil thanks.

Maybe a winky face at the end would help the slow guys like me.

😉

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083232#Comment_122083232

The Aussies and Kiwi's manage ground shares between Cricket/Aussie Rules and Rugby/Soccer with movable stands. The adjustments needed for GAA to Rugby/Soccer are comparatively a piece of cake.

PMC83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083726#Comment_122083726

They were probably saying to Eben 'see YOU in the final'…..which was the case tbf!

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083228#Comment_122083228

From February to the end of April/Early May that pitch is in use pretty much every day of the week between Schools games , Club junior play-off and finals etc.

Back when it was a grass surface it would be completely bald at this stage of the season , covered in sand and you'd get cut to ribbons on it.

Without exaggeration, that pitch probably has 75 games a season played on it and perhaps more.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083053#Comment_122083053

In reality the FAI and the IRFU should have built the stadium out in Blanchardstown which the land is now the high performance centre on. The issue with this was it got nicknamed by the press Bertie Bowl and then people fought against it because of the link with Bertie

That stadium would hold 75k people and would be fit for purpose

Instead they ended up shoving a stadium into a built up area in Dublin and couldn't get planning for one end which I think brings the capacity down by 15k

THe issue now is the FAI don't have the money anymore to move from Aviva so it would be the IRFU funding it themselves, then what would they do with Aviva stadium? Leinster don;t have a big enough following to take over it full time(yet)

You could, if the Irish provinces joined a Super League with England, then having games against Sarries/Quins etc might bump up attendance rates but not enough to fill it

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082929#Comment_122082929

The biggest issue Munster had, said this before, was Dell pulling out of Limerick. That had a huge affect on the economy. Munster started the work in 2006, opened in 2008 and Dell pulled out in 2009.

It wasn't just the people in Dell, it was the entire city suddenly didn't have the cash that was floating around from employees from Dell.

I said it before and people will laugh, but it was on a radio at the time the canteen used something like 2,000 eggs per day, that supplier had nobody to supply anymore so it was felt everywhere.

Would Munster have built it in Limerick if they thought Dell would pull out?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083053#Comment_122083053

Only in Ireland!

With all due respect, this is nonsense.

The Aviva is too small for maybe two or three matches per year, the other 95% of the time it's the right size. Spending hundreds of millions on a piece of infrastructure that we would only need on rare occasions would be absolute madness (see also Ahern, Bertie).

Croke Park is also exactly the size it needs to be, can you imagine All-Ireland weekend if there were 20,000 fewer tickets floating around?

PMC83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084441#Comment_122084441

A stadium out in blanch wouldn't exactly lend exactly lend itself to a great match day experience. One / two pubs within walking distance of that site? When there's a big match on in Dublin, you know about it, bars and restaurants full, town is hopping. Everyone can walk to the stadium from the city center which is reasonably well serviced by buses / trains /trams. If everyone had to make their way out to blanch, not easy.

I'll take a 51,000 seater in town any day over a 75,000 in the middle of nowhere.

Former Former Former

What sunk the Bertie Bowl was the cost. The last estimate was 1 billion, and public construction projects are not renowned for sticking to budget.

Abbottstown would have been a serious pain in the hole, it's the absolute middle of nowhere, and I say that as someone who is up there every week.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084524#Comment_122084524

That's €2.4 million you're sneezing at there

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084456#Comment_122084456

WTF? Munster is more than just Limerick. Dell had no effect on Munster or the attendances. They averaged above 20k in Thomond in 2009/10, 2010/11 and 2011/12. It started to drop away after that, but they were still getting 15-16k for league matches.

Munster being shíte for a decade is the main reason that attendances dropped.

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084505#Comment_122084505

And the international football teams rarely fills it.

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084365#Comment_122084365

Played in it quite a few times when it was grass and it was a pain. I’d say 75 games is fairly conservative. Finals weekends is 3 games on a Sunday. There are quite a few of them in a row between AIL junior and youth matches for the two clubs, all the schools games along with some representative matches I’d say it’s well over a hundred matches a year.
The minis team I coach have been down twice this season as away fixtures and on the main pitch both times. It’s an advertisement in sweating your assets.