Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

thomond2006

awec wrote: »

Ryan's injury is so bad it ruled him out of Lions selection, but it turns out he might actually be totally fine to play in an absolutely nothing game for Ireland instead.

Shaka Hislop

For whatever reason, it seems that Ryan just doesn't seem to be on Gatland's radar, don't think there's any reason to read anything into it, he just prefers other players is all.

awec

awec wrote: »

I didn't say anything was made up, but it is clearly nonsense that Ryan wasn't selected due to injury.

Cian Tracey:

"Hearing James Ryan picked up an injury in Ireland training this week, which ruled him out of Lions contention."

Ryan's injury is so bad it ruled him out of Lions selection, but it turns out he might actually be totally fine to play in an absolutely nothing game for Ireland instead.

I think you've contradicted yourself here. It's not clearly nonsense.

Ryan obviously isn't top of Gatland's list because he wasn't selected in the first place. He could have easily selected him now but Gatland is told he's a doubt due to injury. That has to come into consideration. Maybe Gatland would have never selected him at all but it certainly makes the decision a lot easier for him.

ineedeuro

Shaka Hislop wrote: »

For whatever reason, it seems that Ryan just doesn't seem to be on Gatland's radar, don't think there's any reason to read anything into it, he just prefers other players is all.

The Leinster players seem to have got black mark against some of them when La Rochelle over powered them. Especially after the Sarries game and with the game in SA it seems Gats is going for biggest is best

Former Former Former

ineedeuro wrote: »

The Leinster players seem to have got black mark against some of them when La Rochelle over powered them. Especially after the Sarries game and with the game in SA it seems Gats is going for biggest is best

? Apart from Ryan, who are you referring to?

Like, Furlong, Porter and Conan were picked and Kelleher looks to be next man up if a replacement hooker is needed.

sydthebeat

ineedeuro wrote: »

The Leinster players seem to have got black mark against some of them when La Rochelle over powered them. Especially after the Sarries game and with the game in SA it seems Gats is going for biggest is best

didnt do jonny hill any damage when leinster were over powering exeter a week earlier

TomsOnTheRoof

awec wrote: »

I didn't say anything was made up, but it is clearly nonsense that Ryan wasn't selected due to injury.

Cian Tracey:

"Hearing James Ryan picked up an injury in Ireland training this week, which ruled him out of Lions contention."

Ryan's injury is so bad it ruled him out of Lions selection, but it turns out he might actually be totally fine to play in an absolutely nothing game for Ireland instead.

Cowan Dickie is travelling despite the fact he was stretchered off in the Premiership final. It's clear alright that it wasn't the injury which ruled Ryan out.

sydthebeat

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

Cowan Dickie is travelling despite the fact he was stretchered off in the Premiership final. It's clear alright that it wasn't the injury which ruled Ryan out.

have i missed something?

how is it clear that ryans injury didnt rule him out?

Dubinusa

You'd have to wonder the reactions if Ryan has an injury free season coming up! Obviously, the concussions are an issue , just like they are with Sexton.
Had Ryan had a full run out in the 6nations, I bet he'd be on the plane to South Africa. The LA Rochelle match was a disaster for Leinster! Not for Ryan. The Leinster pack where upended that day and a lot that was due to Ruddock going off in the 1st half. Imo, the selection for that match was wrong.
Right now though, I am concerned for Ryan and his career. Just look at O'Brien at Connacht retiring this month. I think Farrell should let him rest and try to recover!

TomsOnTheRoof

sydthebeat wrote: »

have i missed something?

how is it clear that ryans injury didnt rule him out?

Because if they are willing to take Cowan Dickie, despite the fact that he is ruled out of the Lion's next game (and will have to undergo rtp protocols) then there is no reason why they wouldn't have done likewise with Ryan, especially considering he may be fit enough to play this weekend.

Also, taking into account what Gatland said about Ryan it seems likely that he was never going to be high up the list in terms of replacements. When you consider both of these factors it seems reasonable to suggest that it wasn't the injury which ruled Ryan out.

El_Duderino 09

Shaka Hislop wrote: »

For whatever reason, it seems that Ryan just doesn't seem to be on Gatland's radar, don't think there's any reason to read anything into it, he just prefers other players is all.

This is exactly what I read into it. Gatand doesn't particularly rate Ryan. Based on the last year of form, it's not an outrageous call. Gartland has shown a preference for Welsh players so there's no need for conspiracy theories or anything except the obvious - Gatland didn't pick him.

It doesn't mean Ryan was never any good or will never regain the form he had previously. It just means he wasn't picked for the Lions. That's it.

molloyjh

Given that Ryan has been with Ireland for a few weeks now plus has been involved for the last few years, him being out for a few days training wouldn't really impact selection. But it would matter a lot more to the Lions. So it is entirely possible that his knock ruled him out of contention. Its also possible it had nothing to do with it.

Silly question, but does it really matter which it is?

Former Former Former

The Irish Times is reporting that Lions management asked about Ryan's availability after the AWJ injury but he was not considered due to the adductor strain.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/james-ryan-is-a-doubt-for-next-saturday-s-ireland-v-japan-game-1.4605635

Apologies to those people who were so happy at an Ireland player they're supposed to support missing out on the Lions, I know this is a blow.

AbusesToilets

Ryan hasn't been at his best, but he was also a key part of the best lineout unit this season. It's a curious one.

El_Duderino 09

molloyjh wrote: »

Given that Ryan has been with Ireland for a few weeks now plus has been involved for the last few years, him being out for a few days training wouldn't really impact selection. But it would matter a lot more to the Lions. So it is entirely possible that his knock ruled him out of contention. Its also possible it had nothing to do with it.

Silly question, but does it really matter which it is?

Not a silly question but the answer is probably that Gatland didn't really want him. If Gatland really wanted him then he would have been in the first selection or he would have selected him now. If he was 50:50 then Gatland would almost certainly pick the welsh equivalent - which he ultimately did. So we know for sure that Gatland didn't really want him or else he would have picked him.

thomond2006

Former Former Former wrote: »

The Irish Times is reporting that Lions management asked about Ryan's availability after the AWJ injury but he was not considered due to the adductor strain.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/james-ryan-is-a-doubt-for-next-saturday-s-ireland-v-japan-game-1.4605635

Apologies to those people who were so happy at an Ireland player they're supposed to support missing out on the Lions, I know this is a blow.

Yeah but Gerry is an IRFU man so this is definitely all a conspiracy.

awec

Former Former Former wrote: »

The Irish Times is reporting that Lions management asked about Ryan's availability after the AWJ injury but he was not considered due to the adductor strain.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/james-ryan-is-a-doubt-for-next-saturday-s-ireland-v-japan-game-1.4605635

Apologies to those people who were so happy at an Ireland player they're supposed to support missing out on the Lions, I know this is a blow.

The injury ruled him out of contention because god forbid he’s injured for the duration of the the flight to South Africa. Couldn’t be having that, need to be in tip top shape for these long journeys.

This is all starting to get a bit ODriscoll in 2013 again. There’s no celebration going on by anyone here so I’d suggest you knock that nonsense on the head.

Gatland picked the man he wanted, that’s it. If Beard performs, he’ll be vindicated, if Beard sinks then questions will be asked.

Ryan is missing out cause he hasn’t been great for a while now. No more needs said. I’m surprised by the call but it is what it is.

yerrahbah

Former Former Former wrote: »

The Irish Times is reporting that Lions management asked about Ryan's availability after the AWJ injury but he was not considered due to the adductor strain.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/james-ryan-is-a-doubt-for-next-saturday-s-ireland-v-japan-game-1.4605635

Apologies to those people who were so happy at an Ireland player they're supposed to support missing out on the Lions, I know this is a blow.

Who is happy about Ryan missing out?

Former Former Former

awec wrote: »

The injury ruled him out of contention because god forbid he’s injured for the duration of the the flight to South Africa. Couldn’t be having that, need to be in tip top shape for these long journeys.

This is all starting to get a bit ODriscoll in 2013 again. There’s no celebration going on by anyone here so I’d suggest you knock that nonsense on the head.

Gatland picked the man he wanted, that’s it. If Beard performs, he’ll be vindicated, if Beard sinks then questions will be asked.

Ryan is missing out cause he hasn’t been great for a while now. No more needs said. I’m surprised by the call but it is what it is.

That is some Grade A moving of goalposts.

No one is claiming that Ryan missed out initially due to anything other than lack of form and Gatland's preferences.

No coach in the world would replace an injured player with another injured player but this is exactly what you're suggesting.

You're delighted.

aloooof

Former Former Former wrote: »

The Irish Times is reporting that Lions management asked about Ryan's availability after the AWJ injury but he was not considered due to the adductor strain.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/james-ryan-is-a-doubt-for-next-saturday-s-ireland-v-japan-game-1.4605635

Apologies to those people who were so happy at an Ireland player they're supposed to support missing out on the Lions, I know this is a blow.

His being sounded out doesn’t automatically mean he’d have been selected ahead of Beard for definite tho (which you seem to be assuming / implying).

They were likely assessing their options. Any injury likely made their decision easier.

Neil3030

yerrahbah wrote: »

Who is happy about Ryan missing out?

James Beard's mother has a few fake accounts on here, I think.

awec

Former Former Former wrote: »

That is some Grade A moving of goalposts.

No one is claiming that Ryan missed out initially due to anything other than lack of form and Gatland's preferences.

No coach in the world would replace an injured player with another injured player but this is exactly what you're suggesting.

You're delighted.

Popping the champagne here. Give your head a wobble.

As for the rest of the bit in bold, all I am saying is there has been a narrative that Ryan has lost out due to being injured. It is not really grounded in reality. In particular, coverage from certain elements of the "media" have been pretty embarrassing around this.

In fact, one very prominent journalist suggested it must be personal. :rolleyes:

If Gatland wanted Ryan he'd be going. His injury is such a non issue that he may even play for Ireland in a glorified exhibition match this weekend.

sydthebeat

awec wrote: »

Popping the champagne here. Give your head a wobble.

As for the rest of the bit in bold, all I am saying is there has been a narrative that Ryan has lost out due to being injured. It is not really grounded in reality. In particular, coverage from certain elements of the "media" have been pretty embarrassing around this.

In fact, one very prominent journalist suggested it must be personal. :rolleyes:

If Gatland wanted Ryan he'd be going. His injury is such a non issue that he may even play for Ireland in a glorified exhibition match this weekend.

are you suggesting that the IRFU didnt inform the lions of Ryans injury, and the extent of same?

Former Former Former

aloooof wrote: »

His being sounded out doesn’t automatically mean he’d have been selected ahead of Beard for definite tho (which you seem to be assuming / implying).

They were likely assessing their options. Any injury likely made their decision easier.

Nope, I 100% agree. In fact, what I said was

Former Former Former wrote: »

We have no idea if Ryan would have been called up or not if he was fit. He's a better player than Beard but who knows what Gatland is thinking half the time.

What I object to is people adopting as fact the version of events that most suits their own bias, and even when it becomes obvious that it's wrong, they just dig their heels in even more because they were so happy about the first version.

Podge_irl

I suspect if they were really going to select Ryan but for injury then they would have replaced him with Gray rather than Beard. Beard is a very different player from the other two.

Anyway, who cares. Whether he would have picked him or not, it is clear Gatland doesn't particularly rate him. So be it.

awec

sydthebeat wrote: »

are you suggesting that the IRFU didnt inform the lions of Ryans injury, and the extent of same?

No. I have no idea how on earth you would come to such a conclusion based on my post.

Gatland: "we're assessing options for replacing AWJ, what's the story with James Ryan?"

IRFU: "has a very minor injury, might even play for us this weekend."

Gatland: "Ok, thanks"

<Beard picked>

Boards.ie / Irish Media / twitter persons: "Injury costs James Ryan a certain Lions selection, you obviously cannot pick an injured player (except for the injured players who are already travelling)."

IRFU: "James Ryan may play this weekend".

sydthebeat

awec wrote: »

No. I have no idea how on earth you would come to such a conclusion based on my post.

Gatland: "we're assessing options for replacing AWJ, what's the story with James Ryan?"

IRFU: "has a very minor injury, might even play for us this weekend."

Gatland: "Ok, thanks"

.

thats quite a selective narrative. is that any more likely than:

Gatland: "we're assessing options for replacing AWJ, what's the story with James Ryan?"

IRFU: "he picked up an abductor injury during the week, which we are monitoring."

Gatland: "Ok, We need him to go immediately, but hes out of contention now, thanks anyway"

irishbucsfan

I don’t understand why it’s so unbelievable that the Lions wouldn’t consider Ryan because he’s not 100%

Makes complete sense to me. Maybe he still would have lost out but no one can know that.

Whoever is getting called up needs to be fit now. They need to train ASAP and play in 3 clubs games within the next 11 days. Beard nor Ryan probably were never going to make the test team given they weren't in the initial squad.

TomsOnTheRoof

If that's the logic then why was a similar approach not taken with LCD. There is far more cover available at lock than there is at hooker yet Gatland was content to wait on a fella who had been stretchered off the field and who is ruled out of the next game.