Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141281#Comment_122141281

The two things are not related.

We can point to lot's of summer series and November internationals where we've picked experimental sides, and similarly can point to plenty of times SA and NZ sent packed sides out in games.

Jesus christ you're using EOS era stuff here as an example, the game you're referencing here happened 18 years ago.

There will be plenty of developmental minutes between now and the next RWC, and there likely will be some guys called up to tour this summer for their first experiences in an Irish squad, but the notion that we aren't going to go to SA to try and win is utter nonsense.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141281#Comment_122141281

If we had also played a developmental team in that game 18 years ago (I presume you’re talking about the 2006 game), do you think it would have made any difference to our performance in the 2007 WC?

Interestingly enough we sent a developmental team to Argentina in June 2007 and lost both tests and didn’t even make it to a QF.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141001#Comment_122141001

I do think most supporters recognise now though that in the grand scheme of things, winning series means very little

I am happy to enjoy it for what it is.

sydthebeat

South Africa didn't beat us in the world cup, did they??

They will be certainly out to 'right that wrong' and that will be their pure motivation. If you think they are just going to shrug and say "let's send out the baby bokke here" you're completely out of touch with reality. They will want 2-0 or nothing

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141281#Comment_122141281

So playing a developmental side guarantees RWC success?

OldRio

Im utterly staggered that a series win in RSA is thought of as a 'meh, but what about the WC' by some posters.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141477#Comment_122141477

100% agreed. I’ve heard of online Irish fans be referred to as arrogant by some opposing fans. Is it this the attitude that they’re referring to?

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141390#Comment_122141390

Lol.

South Africa won the World Cup. Are we so arrogant that we really think they're sitting stewing over the fact they lost a group game to us, with a wrong to right?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141510#Comment_122141510

I don't think they are stewing over it, but I think they'll have definitely moved onto it as their motivation du jour.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141510#Comment_122141510

We won the tournament we competed in this year but lost to England in the process. Do you think the Irish players will want to avenge that defeat at the next available opportunity?

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141477#Comment_122141477

I don't really get why you're staggered.

A series win is nice, but in the big picture it's totally meaningless. Similarly, a series loss is totally meaningless. The result of this summer series literally could not be less consequential.

As far as rugby goes, it's pure entertainment, with nothing whatsoever on the line.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141534#Comment_122141534

I imagine they might use it as motivation, or at least Rassie might, because there is little else for them to use as motivation for a relatively inconsequential series.

If it wasn't this, I am sure they would invent something else to try and generate interest.

But I can't imagine they really care too much, certainly not in a genuine way.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141539#Comment_122141539

Well that's a fairly awful comparison, since that loss to England cost us something (a grand slam) and South Africa's loss to us cost them nothing whatsoever.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141510#Comment_122141510

stewing?? not at all

i distinctly said it will be a reason they wont put out the green horns like some other suggest we should do with this tour.

do you think they see us as not credible opposition?

ps: your post might come back haunt you when the media being building up these games

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141544#Comment_122141544

As far as rugby goes, it's pure entertainment, with nothing whatsoever on the line.

This is true of all sport man.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141558#Comment_122141558

Ah now Podge you are being facetious.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141477#Comment_122141477

Must be a horrible way to live - not sure how I could even watch the sport if that is how I looked at things.

The whole enjoyment of international rugby lives and dies on your team winning a tournament that takes place every 4 years.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141553#Comment_122141553

‘Awful’ comparison? Think you’re being a bit hyperbolic there.

Regardless I have no doubt that SA will ‘want to fúck us up’ to use Rassie Erasmus’ words seeing as they haven’t beaten us since 2016 regardless of their great success since.

phog

A series win will be terrific, a series win with some of the settled team at home would even be better

A series loss with our usual 23 will be soul destroying.

Using our usual 23 v a SA development team will be a waste of time.

Foxtrol

SA lost to us in a pool game and then won each of their three knockout games by a single point each.

They were incredibly lucky, and it would be madness to try to link any single act in their preparation to be the cause of their success and even madder to try to copy them and expect similar results.

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141588#Comment_122141588

It's not going to be a SA Development team.

They will obviously have some new caps, which is driven by retirements and the general age profile of their squad at the RWC, but there is no way they'd risk losing a series to us so easily as to send out a Development squad against us.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141577#Comment_122141577

Now this is getting really silly.

Things that really, really matter in international rugby:

1. The World Cup once, every 4 years
2. The six nations, every single year

Things that are primarily entertainment, enjoyable, but are ultimately absolutely inconsequential and pretty meaningless:

1. Test series
2. Lions Tours

I don't know what the aversion is to accepting this, or why we need to talk up test series into something they are not. It makes us look incredibly small time, like the Ireland of old when we used to talk up triple crowns.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141588#Comment_122141588

• 1 Steven Kitshoff
• 2 Malcolm Marx
• 3 Frans Malherbe
• 4 Eben Etzebeth
• 5 Lood de Jager
• 6 Siya Kolisi (Captain)
• 7 Pieter-Steph du Toit
• 8 Jasper Wiese

Backs

• 9 Jaden Hendrikse
• 10 Damian Willemse
• 11 Makazole Mapimpi
• 12 Damian de Allende
• 13 Jesse Kriel
• 14 Kurt-Lee Arendse
• 15 Cheslin Kolbe

Replacements

• 16 Bongi Mbonambi
• 17 Ox Nche
• 18 Vincent Koch
• 19 Franco Mostert
• 20 Deon Fourie
• 21 Kwagga Smith
• 22 Faf de Klerk
• 23 Willie le Roux

The team that SA sent over to Dublin in 2022 which lost by 3 points. Was that defeat soul destroying for them?

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141544#Comment_122141544

Our world ranking is good right now, we want it to stay that way until the draw for the next world cup, so that means we want to win as much as possible up to the end of the November internationals in 2025. Beating the top team nearly 4 points ahead of us, away, would give us a huge points boost.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141565#Comment_122141565

Only partially. The World Cup is 3 years away and I couldn't give a flip about it. We are b2b 6N champions so what else is there to aim for?

AbusesToilets

I'm still annoyed we lost the last tour down there, very eager to see us claim that scalp.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141643#Comment_122141643

I couldn't give a crap about the RWC 3 years away either. Don't get me wrong, we should try win this series. I am not suggesting we send a rotated side, that won't happen. It'll be a strong touring team with maybe a few new faces thrown in.

But ultimately, winning or losing this series is inconsequential, it's nothing more than a feel good moment for the fans. Is it an achievement to crow about? No. Is it something the team will be remembered for? No. Would winning this series take the edge off the WC disappointment? Not even close.

Similarly if we lose, we'll feel bad for a day or two but it means nothing. A series loss here tells us nothing whatsoever. The players will have forgotten about it before they land on the beaches for their summer breaks. I am sure SA will want to win it, and if they do I am sure they'll enjoy it, and within a few days of it being over they'll have totally forgotten about it too.

These test series are nothing more than money making machines for the unions. We go visit them so that they'll come visit us in future. We can enjoy them and simultaneously accept them for what they are. Enjoyment isn't predicated on us pretending like they are a huge deal. That is my point.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141612#Comment_122141612

Nothing in my posts disagrees with what you note here.

However, rather than looking to enjoy the upcoming test series, certain posters are moaning about a RWC a year ago and stressing out about the impact of decisions now on a RWC 3 years from now.

In my opinion that is a sad mindset to be in.

What is worse is there is zero evidence directly linking that a developmental team would in anyway improve our chances in the RWC, while the real negative impact to seedings is far more likely to hurt in the RWC.

TRC10

Couldn't give less of a toss about the outcome of these two "test matches". Much rather we used it to bring new guys into the fold (we won't because we never learn). SA will absolutely not be fielding their strongest 23. We'll probably take a full strength squad and win a test or two and then crown ourselves de facto World Champions because we beat the World Cup wimmers. But honestly after so many years of being the laughing stock of World rugby, all any Irish rugby fan should care about is winning a quarter final.

OldRio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141544#Comment_122141544

'Nice'

I'll stop at that. If you think a series win in RSA is just nice, you are either very young or naive