Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138256#Comment_122138256

he is paid to play for ireland.. he is going

RichieRich_89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138256#Comment_122138256

If he needs to play two fewer games he can skip two of Munster's remaining games. The international team brings in 80% of the revenue, and, up against the World Cup winners in their own backyard, Ireland need one of their best players.

Paul Smeenus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138355#Comment_122138355

No. He was on the bench for the Scotland game, Farrell said Henderson was starting because he deserved it. If Ryan was carrying a knock, McCarthy could absolutely have played.

Why would Ryan have been risked against a team like Scotland if he was carrying a knock?

He's simply not as vital as some fans think he is. I remember the confident posts "well, Ryan obviously starts, the question is who starts with him, McCarthy or Beirne?" before the French game in the Six Nations. And lo and behold, McCarthy and Bernie started, with Ryan on the bench.

I know he's immensely important to Leinster and if he doesn't go off you don't lose that final yadda yadda yah. He's simply not nearly as crucial to Ireland.

Foxtrol

Not sure how Munster got away with giving Beirne so many minutes this year. Even if the IRFU count the CC knockout weekends as resting weekends, when he has been watching most from home, he still has a lot of miles on the clock.

Funny after all the moaning about central contracts, we're now claims that Munster's central contracted player should be rested by Ireland.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138256#Comment_122138256

I'd be shocked if they rest anyone not going for off season surgery. All the moreso in Beirne's case now with Henderson doing just that.

Brief_Lives

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138505#Comment_122138505

1 poster suggested it, calm down dear.

We had about 20 injuries at 1 stage this year, 1 functioning second row. Not suprised Beirne played so much. Warrior.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138559#Comment_122138559

I'd be shocked too but if we're building a squad for the next RWC we should not be bringing players like Beirne on tour.

bingobango12

Not sure Henderson would have even gotten into the SA tour squad if fit. He’s been in poor form for quite a while now. Ryan Beirne McCarthy Ahern the obvious 4 now to travel.

ersatz

Looking at Aldritt last weekend I saw a guy who really needed a break. He 's being flogged to death.

pickarooney

He took a few months off but either the fatigue built up over a long period or his head is not where it was after the WC failure.

Buer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139653#Comment_122139653

He really hasn't. He has about 1,000 minutes of rugby since returning from his post-RWC sabbatical which is a significant amount in approximately 5 months but not really flogged to death territory. For context, Doris has roughly the same number of minutes in the same timeframe and is performing well.

It was also his choice to come back from his sabbatical early; he was due to be absence until late/end of January but returned for their game against Toulouse at the end of December.

Alldritt still made more carries and metres than any forward on the field at the weekend. The issues there seem to be more a matter of focus and motivation across the board as opposed to any particular issues with game time with the possible exception of Botia who is playing a lot given he's 35 years old.

Former Former Former

Yeah this is exactly why we have a player welfare system, it’s not really for the player’s welfare, it’s to make sure they’re fit for Ireland games.

If any test player has played more club games than others, it’s far more likely he’ll be stood down for the remaining URC games than stood down for the SA tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138559#Comment_122138559







Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139492#Comment_122139492

The next world cup is 3 years away and I'm not sure what it has to do with this tour. You don't leave your best lock behind when going to play the World Champions in their back yard.

The Irish players get absolutely plenty of time off compared to their peers.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139948#Comment_122139948

I guess that's the problem with Irish Rugby, we want to win all our friendlies and use our core players when playing tier one nations in nothing games and then wonder why, when it comes to the World Cups.

salmocab

friendlies that’s edgy stuff

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139948#Comment_122139948

We have Fiji coming in November and probably a Wolfhounds game, then next summer we'll have second-tier tests with a weaker squad while the Lions tour is on. Loads of scope for trying out new guys.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139967#Comment_122139967

There’s already been mumblings in the media about lack of non Leinster representation in the Irish squad and how other province’s fans are struggling to get invested with the current Irish squad. If you take out Beirne and POM (probably should be left at home at this stage), you’re left with Crowley as the only starter from Munster. Ulster will have no one and Connacht will have Hansen and Aki. What other players should be rested? Doris? VDF? Porter and Furlong?

Don’t think that’s going to help us win a series down there which has to be the priority as opposed to a World Cup in 3 years. And as said previously, what’s the point in having someone like Beirne on a central contract if you’re not going to play him when available?

phog

Yippee, we win a series, everyone feeling great again.

Then out at the next RWC QF, we need to try something different

Podge_irl

Are you expecting South Africa to just randomly leave fit players out of this series or something?

A 2 tour series over 3 years out from a World Cup is irrelevant to that event. We sent quite an understrength squad to South Africa following the 2015 World Cup and it did piss all use in 2019. It's a ridiculous argument.

pickarooney

It'd be nice if the coaches came to some kind of agreement on the strength of the teams they're playing. Nobody wants to see B sides but if each team had a couple of new caps and a few low-capped players that'd be great.

I've very little interest in a 2 game series with full-strength teams, personally.

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140790#Comment_122140790

Yes, exactly, Yippee !.

Because winning a test series against the World champions in S.A. would put bums on seats for every other international, which pays for all professional rugby. Sending an understrenght squad & losing badly would not help any RWC '27 squad progress past a 1/4 final. Asking seasoned internationals to perform at their best for their country against the best in the world while telling them that a group (in which they are not included) of the best players are not involved (but are being replaced by developement players) may be less likely to inspire their performance.

How would you feel, if in your professional life, you were selected to deal with the most prestigious market in the world, but that half the senior sales & marketing team were'nt going to be there (in order to give the young lads an opputunity) ?.

Dubinusa

I wouldn't be surprised if Rassie brings in 4 or so new players. Jenkins could be a possibility too. That squad is fairly long in the tooth.

For Ireland, Osbourne should get his 1st cap. He's shown enough to warrant inclusion. Ahern also should get a look.

sydthebeat

I think we can be pretty much guaranteed that there will be low numbered test capped players brought to South Africa, and probably debutants as well.

Even if it's to experience what is like on a tour such as that, it's beneficial to perspective test level players

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140908#Comment_122140908

I do think most supporters recognise now though that in the grand scheme of things, winning series means very little, so I'm not really convinced about the bums on seat argument.

A series win will feel nice but it will represent very little in the bigger picture. We've been here before.

Similarly, losing this series will mean very little. As far as the result goes, it's fairly irrelevant.

The series themselves are good entertainment but we do put way too much stock in them. They are a hangover from the amateur era, but really what they are is fixtures to fill the calendar and the bank accounts in years where there is no World Cup. Nothing more than that. I know we hate the term, but they really are the rugby equivalent of friendlies, the big difference with soccer is that rugby still has test rugby at the top of the pyramid so the players are still bought in and they aren't treated as a total joke.

The likes of SA and NZ don't treat their touring series with anywhere near the same reverence as we seem to.

Jump_In_Jack

The test series in South Africa is a huge opportunity; pick the best players and do the best we can.
Now is not the time to worry about future World Cups.
By all means rest players as needed, but don't treat this as a development tour, the usual rationale should apply:
players should be selected based on their current ability, and, if there are options between players of equal ability, select the player with the greater potential for the longer-term.

clsmooth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140790#Comment_122140790

That’s quite a childish and entitled post. It’s the type of post I’d expect to see someone who got into the sport in the last few years make who hasn’t seen the continuous gradual progress we’ve made over the last 25 years (wait for the inevitable ‘what progress, we’ve never won a WC QF’ post)

What’s wrong with seeing your national team be successful? Did you enjoy the 2022 NZ tour series? Do you think the senior players regretted going on that tour or that the coaches wished they hadn’t brought Murray, POM, Healy, Earls and Sexton in hindsight after the WC QF?

Do you think that if we send the strongest selection possible to test ourselves against the WC winners in their own backyard that we will look back at this if as a huge chance lost if we don’t win the 2027 WC?

What’s wrong with feeling good about your national team? ‘We’ll feel great again’? We’re back to back 6N winners and came close to doing back to back slams this year. Why the negativity?

Win and it means nothing. Lose and we’re rubbish. Some people will never be happy.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141001#Comment_122141001

The likes of SA and NZ don't treat their touring series with anywhere near the same reverence as we seem to.

I'm not sure this is true tbh.

This specific criticism of Farrell here is that we'll bring Beirne, a second row, when we should be throwing younger guys into it.

The last time SA were here in November 2022, they picked Lood de Jager and Eben Etzebeth to play us, with Franco Mostert on the bench.* When we visited NZ a few months earlier, they picked Retallick/Whitelock, Retallick/Barrett and Retallick/Whitelock in successive tests. When they were here in 2021, Retallick/Whitelock.

Guess who they picked when they came in 2018? Give up? Retallick/Whitelock. But I bet you'll never in a million years figure out who they picked at the Aviva in 2016.

So looking at second row as a microcosm, I'm not sure they approach it any differently to us, they go all out to win.

*The full SA team that day was:

15 Cheslin Kolbe, 14 Kurt-Lee Arendse, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Damian Willemse, 9 Jaden Hendrikse, , 8 Jasper Wiese, 7 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 6 Siya Kolisi (captain), 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Steven Kitshoff.

I'm not seeing the crazy experimentation. I think Kolbe at full-back was new, but it wasn't much of a surprise to find he was really, really good.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141082#Comment_122141082

You're opening paragraph is totally incorrect, I've tried having a reasonable discussion with you before but you failed just like now

It won't happen again

phog

I went to Ireland v SA in Dublin I think with EOS as head coach, he used his Number One team, SA brought a developmental squad, we won, we were all delighted to beat SA but they went on to win the following RWC.

We're told we can't play developmental squads at home as it affects tickets sales, we can't play them on Summer tours as we want to win summer series.

We'll end up losing the QF in the next RWC and wonder why

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140908#Comment_122140908

So, you want us to put all our eggs in one basket for a summer series win.

What happens if we lose the summer series, what happens if we win but Rassie uses it to try new players or different combos.

The Irish lads might have their confidence shattered if we're to believe your argument here