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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • #32942
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 56,247 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141539#Comment_122141539

    Well that's a fairly awful comparison, since that loss to England cost us something (a grand slam) and South Africa's loss to us cost them nothing whatsoever.



  • #32943
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,843 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141510#Comment_122141510

    stewing?? not at all

    i distinctly said it will be a reason they wont put out the green horns like some other suggest we should do with this tour.

    do you think they see us as not credible opposition?

    ps: your post might come back haunt you when the media being building up these games



  • #32944
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141544#Comment_122141544

    As far as rugby goes, it's pure entertainment, with nothing whatsoever on the line.

    This is true of all sport man.



  • #32945
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 56,247 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141558#Comment_122141558

    Ah now Podge you are being facetious.



  • #32946
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141477#Comment_122141477

    Must be a horrible way to live - not sure how I could even watch the sport if that is how I looked at things.

    The whole enjoyment of international rugby lives and dies on your team winning a tournament that takes place every 4 years.



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  • #32947
    clsmooth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,389 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141553#Comment_122141553

    ‘Awful’ comparison? Think you’re being a bit hyperbolic there.

    Regardless I have no doubt that SA will ‘want to fúck us up’ to use Rassie Erasmus’ words seeing as they haven’t beaten us since 2016 regardless of their great success since.



  • #32948
    phog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,239 ✭✭✭✭phog


    A series win will be terrific, a series win with some of the settled team at home would even be better

    A series loss with our usual 23 will be soul destroying.

    Using our usual 23 v a SA development team will be a waste of time.



  • #32949
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    SA lost to us in a pool game and then won each of their three knockout games by a single point each.

    They were incredibly lucky, and it would be madness to try to link any single act in their preparation to be the cause of their success and even madder to try to copy them and expect similar results.



  • #32950
    Benjamin Cold Sorbet
    Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ Benjamin Cold Sorbet


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141588#Comment_122141588

    It's not going to be a SA Development team.

    They will obviously have some new caps, which is driven by retirements and the general age profile of their squad at the RWC, but there is no way they'd risk losing a series to us so easily as to send out a Development squad against us.



  • #32951
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 56,247 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141577#Comment_122141577

    Now this is getting really silly.

    Things that really, really matter in international rugby:

    1. The World Cup once, every 4 years
    2. The six nations, every single year

    Things that are primarily entertainment, enjoyable, but are ultimately absolutely inconsequential and pretty meaningless:

    1. Test series
    2. Lions Tours

    I don't know what the aversion is to accepting this, or why we need to talk up test series into something they are not. It makes us look incredibly small time, like the Ireland of old when we used to talk up triple crowns.



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  • #32952
    clsmooth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,389 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141588#Comment_122141588

    • 1 Steven Kitshoff
    • 2 Malcolm Marx
    • 3 Frans Malherbe
    • 4 Eben Etzebeth
    • 5 Lood de Jager
    • 6 Siya Kolisi (Captain)
    • 7 Pieter-Steph du Toit
    • 8 Jasper Wiese

    Backs

    • 9 Jaden Hendrikse
    • 10 Damian Willemse
    • 11 Makazole Mapimpi
    • 12 Damian de Allende
    • 13 Jesse Kriel
    • 14 Kurt-Lee Arendse
    • 15 Cheslin Kolbe

    Replacements

    • 16 Bongi Mbonambi
    • 17 Ox Nche
    • 18 Vincent Koch
    • 19 Franco Mostert
    • 20 Deon Fourie
    • 21 Kwagga Smith
    • 22 Faf de Klerk
    • 23 Willie le Roux

    The team that SA sent over to Dublin in 2022 which lost by 3 points. Was that defeat soul destroying for them?



  • #32953
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,384 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141544#Comment_122141544

    Our world ranking is good right now, we want it to stay that way until the draw for the next world cup, so that means we want to win as much as possible up to the end of the November internationals in 2025. Beating the top team nearly 4 points ahead of us, away, would give us a huge points boost.



  • #32954
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141565#Comment_122141565

    Only partially. The World Cup is 3 years away and I couldn't give a flip about it. We are b2b 6N champions so what else is there to aim for?



  • #32955
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,966 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I'm still annoyed we lost the last tour down there, very eager to see us claim that scalp.



  • #32956
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 56,247 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141643#Comment_122141643

    I couldn't give a crap about the RWC 3 years away either. Don't get me wrong, we should try win this series. I am not suggesting we send a rotated side, that won't happen. It'll be a strong touring team with maybe a few new faces thrown in.

    But ultimately, winning or losing this series is inconsequential, it's nothing more than a feel good moment for the fans. Is it an achievement to crow about? No. Is it something the team will be remembered for? No. Would winning this series take the edge off the WC disappointment? Not even close.

    Similarly if we lose, we'll feel bad for a day or two but it means nothing. A series loss here tells us nothing whatsoever. The players will have forgotten about it before they land on the beaches for their summer breaks. I am sure SA will want to win it, and if they do I am sure they'll enjoy it, and within a few days of it being over they'll have totally forgotten about it too.

    These test series are nothing more than money making machines for the unions. We go visit them so that they'll come visit us in future. We can enjoy them and simultaneously accept them for what they are. Enjoyment isn't predicated on us pretending like they are a huge deal. That is my point.



  • #32957
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141612#Comment_122141612

    Nothing in my posts disagrees with what you note here.

    However, rather than looking to enjoy the upcoming test series, certain posters are moaning about a RWC a year ago and stressing out about the impact of decisions now on a RWC 3 years from now.

    In my opinion that is a sad mindset to be in.

    What is worse is there is zero evidence directly linking that a developmental team would in anyway improve our chances in the RWC, while the real negative impact to seedings is far more likely to hurt in the RWC.



  • #32958
    TRC10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,195 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Couldn't give less of a toss about the outcome of these two "test matches". Much rather we used it to bring new guys into the fold (we won't because we never learn). SA will absolutely not be fielding their strongest 23. We'll probably take a full strength squad and win a test or two and then crown ourselves de facto World Champions because we beat the World Cup wimmers. But honestly after so many years of being the laughing stock of World rugby, all any Irish rugby fan should care about is winning a quarter final.



  • #32959
    OldRio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,369 ✭✭✭OldRio


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141544#Comment_122141544

    'Nice'

    I'll stop at that. If you think a series win in RSA is just nice, you are either very young or naive



  • #32960
    Benjamin Cold Sorbet
    Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ Benjamin Cold Sorbet


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141774#Comment_122141774

    For probably the first 100+ years though of Irish rugby history it was inconceivable that we could ever go to these places and be competitive, much less aspire to win.

    It's the only major rugby country we haven't won a test series in. We've a great record against them over the past 20 years (we've won 8 of 12 games over that period), but we'd only ever beaten them once in history before 2004.

    We're no longer content with smash and grab style wins over bigger countries, we now believe we're capable of winning every game we go into.

    All of that matters to me (and I think to a huge amount of Irish rugby fans). I really don't believe these games to be inconsequential.



  • #32961
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141774#Comment_122141774

    Will winning a RWC QF be an achievement? not really, but it ticks a box and removes a "you haven't done this yet" barrier.

    They are money making machines because people want to see the matches and care about the results. I get your point, but it seems a deeply over-cynical way of looking at it.



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  • #32962
    Ben Bailey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141774#Comment_122141774

    "These test series are nothing more than money making machines for the unions."

    These test series are money making machines for the unions who then spend that money on the Provinces, Academies & Clubs who supply the players who represent their country at the RWC. RWCs lose Unions money so you have to make it when you can. When Tier 1 nations start sending developement sides the guaranteed fees paid by the hosting Union (whose income from hosting these tours will drop) will decrease, leaving the touring Union less to spend on (yes, you've got it) their next RWC.



  • #32963
    clsmooth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,389 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141847#Comment_122141847

    Which potentially results in rugby coverage rights being sold, put behind a paywall and removed from free to access TV. If kids don’t have easy access to the games, they stop growing up wanting to be the next Johnny Sexton or POM. Interest in the sport wanes and numbers participating fall. It’s a slippy slope.



  • #32964
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,724 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    The arguments have become somewhat mixed up.

    The initial complaint was that a guy who's played 13 provincial games this season should not be going to SA. 13 games is not a lot, this is the whole point of the IRFU player welfare programme, none of them are ever flogged.

    OK, then the complaint became that we're not throwing in young guys. Well, Joe McCarthy turned 23 last month and he'll be going, plus whoever replaces Henderson, plus potentially someone else to replace Ryan who must be 50-50 at best to go.

    Right across the squad, there will be young guys and less experienced guys travelling to SA.

    There really isn't an issue here.



  • #32965
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 32,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142134#Comment_122142134

    Not disagreeing with the larger point, but can't imagine Ryan is 50-50. He's 100% going.



  • #32966
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,724 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142140#Comment_122142140

    I meant that he's 50-50 to be fit - I have a sneaking suspicion he's being patched up for the CC final but isn't properly recovered. If he is, he's definitely going to SA.



  • #32967
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,370 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141390#Comment_122141390

    It'll be 1-1 and nobody will have learnt or proved anything, is my bet.



  • #32968
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,843 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142277#Comment_122142277

    So be it 🥳

    I'm just looking forward to watching the games.



  • #32969
    ersatz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,546 ✭✭✭ersatz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139862#Comment_122139862

    For me its less minutes that the World Cup loss and the consequent collapse in morale/form of the French team and then LAR playing fairly poorly. He looks dejected and sad.



  • #32970
    ersatz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,546 ✭✭✭ersatz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141202#Comment_122141202

    always interesting to note some of the debuts made against Ireland. McCaw, Reid and Dagg come to mind. There are others. Not sure how many debuts we see against them. Carbery, not sure who else.



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  • #32971
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,843 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147637#Comment_122147637

    Julian saveau springs to mind... The fecker



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