Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084441#Comment_122084441

Talk about a solution looking for a problem!

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084505#Comment_122084505

With all due respect to you, let's look at that in percentage terms and consider the accuracy of your view.

The Aviva is too small for probably 75 to 100% of international rugby games played in it. Croke Park is full for possibly 5% of the GAA games played in it - note that for the last couple of years All Ireland Hurling Final tickets have gone on general sale, albeit a small number but it has happened, in the days leading upto the final as they were returning unsold. So yes, the Aviva is too small for most rugby games and Croke Park is too big for most GAA games. That's simply a statement of fact.

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084348#Comment_122084348

Whatever about our opinions on Ireland’s chances, I would expect members of the actual team to exhibit confidence they could win the World Cup.

Ben Bailey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083676#Comment_122083676

elephantintheroom.ie/brent-pope

For those who prefer elephants of colour 😊

Ben Bailey

Is that extra €2.4 million net after increased loan repayments, extra staffing, Gardai etc ?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084685#Comment_122084685

The Aviva is too small for probably 75 to 100% of international rugby games played in it.

Ok well in 2024, the Aviva has hosted/will host Italy, Wales, Scotland, Argentina, New Zealand, Australia and Fiji.

Of those seven matches, for how many do you think demand would significantly exceed the current supply? I'd say maybe three, four at most, and that's with the best Ireland team possibly ever and the economy riding high putting cash in pockets and money in corporate budgets.

Look at the soccer team; building a bigger stadium would have saddled them with even more debt and even more empty seats.

Croke Park is too big for most GAA games, but it would have been madness to build a smaller stadium as you are advocating.

PMC83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084604#Comment_122084604

Assuming it could have been built for the proposed budget and not spiraled out of control, and also assuming it continued to sell out games. We'll never know. We do know that fans are fickle, and when the good times don't last, bums don't continue to land on seats.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084685#Comment_122084685

Croke park essentially exists for the all Ireland finals. It's the definition of a "crown jewel" ie not something you use everyday but very impressive when you do need to use it.

There are numerous smaller gaa stadia around the country that cater for those games where smaller crowds are expected.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084805#Comment_122084805

The IRFU would easily sell out the Aviva for every single game if they hadn't been greedy and milked ticket prices.

They have really jacked up prices massively the past few years.

They could probably sell 70-80k tickets for every game if prices were at a level of even 5 years ago.

phog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084835#Comment_122084835

Well I assumed you were talking about and comparing a capacity of 51k in the Aviva to a capacity of 75k in a new stadium. Maybe I picked you up wrong.

AbusesToilets

Did the Aviva developer's plan out building the extension if the houses on that side were ever bought out?

Seems like it would have been a smart thing to plan for when constructing the whole.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084894#Comment_122084894

Depends who you talk to. Have heard both that the IRFU are actively buying up the houses and there is a plan to build up that end and also that due to underground waterways it is not possible to have sufficient foundations to increase the stand. Not sure what the reality is

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084873#Comment_122084873

THe IRFU has to fund all rugby, a lot of that comes from ticket. Supply and demand
If they had a stadium with 70-80k then the demand would reduce and prices would reduce.

At the moment the size of the Aviva means the demand is high so the IRFU will raise ticket prices so they get the best return on these big games and get more money into the game, which keeps rugby alive in Ireland.

TRC10

https://www.planetrugby.com/news/how-eben-etzebeth-knew-arrogant-ireland-would-not-reach-rugby-world-cup-final

Interesting

custom_build

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084636#Comment_122084636

I believe the poster suggesting that Doneybrook was unused and that Leinster didn't receive any of the gate receipts from the RDS, was being fairly disingenuous.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084873#Comment_122084873

I agree with you, I don't go to Ireland games that much any more and cost is a big factor. Just can't justify 120 euro for a medium-quality seat.

And half the reason Leinster get such good crowds to the Aviva is 10 euro tickets for kids, 2 for 1 premium level etc etc.

However, if you have built a new, larger stadium and need to sell every seat to recoup the outlay and service the debt, finding yourself in a situation where demand is very sensitive to price is a tricky place to be.

phog

How many 6Ns or even back in the day of the 5Ns were less than capacity crowds at the Aviva/LR

How many AIs v Australia, SA or NZ have had less than capacity crowds

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085090#Comment_122085090

It's not remotely interesting. It's just a South African accidentally or deliberately misunderstanding a gesture of commiseration.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085090#Comment_122085090

I think this is nonsense as the Irish team was at pains to talk about the win was only in groups etc

SA have a bug bear with ireladn at the moment and will raise the stakes at any chance

TheSunIsShining

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084867#Comment_122084867

So why wasn't Lansdowne Road built as a crown jewel for playing England in the Six Nations for which, I would suggest, you could sell 90,000 tickets? And yes, there are numerous smaller GAA grounds around the country. As there are many other rugby grounds around the country. But the fact remains that the only game for which Croke Park is under serious pressure for tickets is the All Ireland football final - as I said, even the hurling final these days is only just about selling out - albeit it that if/when say Cork qualify again for a final demand would obviously go way up.

TheSunIsShining

It used be discussed on the Archiseeks website I think it was called? It was stated there that the stadium was never built to be expanded - and that the steel works mean that you would need to dissemble loads of it to build the Havelock Square end up.

Having said that, like you, I've also heard the version of the IRFU buying houses in Havelock Square. Although given that they only own circa half the stadium company (until 2070 I think when full owneship reverts to them) why it would be only them buying houses is also odd?

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084873#Comment_122084873

Wait till you see the prices for NZ in November. Cheapest seats are €85

AdamD

South Africans are in a permanent state of siege mentality and its painful to read about

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085096#Comment_122085096

The Leinster men's team cannot play in Donnybrook. That was the point.
Using it for other purposes doesn't change that fact.
Leinster didn't go away and sort out another stadium to purchase or renovate for themselves, they just continue to rent instead.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085334#Comment_122085334

So why wasn't Lansdowne Road built as a crown jewel for playing England in the Six Nations for which, I would suggest, you could sell 90,000 tickets?

??

Thats has literally zero to do with my point.

there are many GAA stadia around the country that can cater for whatever counties are playing each other. hell even Dublin (the county with the biggest fan base) play a lot of their games in parnell Park which has a capacity of 10% of Croke Park, which goes to show that Croke Park is really only ever fully used for a few weekends a year

The Aviva is properly sized in the main. Yes its fully in demand for marquee games, but there have been plenty of non-marquee summer / nov test where its been possible to purchase tickets right up to kick off. Plus the FAI have really struggled in the last decade to sell out the stadium for national games, even at tickets prices severely discounted compared to rugby.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085534#Comment_122085534

The mens team could play in it but it would seriously reduce the capacity and income for Leinster

So the stadium is used for other purposes

Even this weekend on Sunday they have a load of games on for U13-U16 on Sunday which will probably see close to the stadium been full.

If they didnt have Donneybrook what location would be used for these games?

They also sold the naming rights to the stadium.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085534#Comment_122085534

Donnybrook couldn't have been upgraded beyond what's there now , Leinster/IRFU simply couldn't have afforded it on their own.

In peak Celtic Tiger , a developer wanted the land at the Bective end along with the back pitch for high-end apartments and in return the offer was for them to build a wrap-around stadium of about 15k capacity incorporating both club houses into the stands at either end, with the Tennis club going on the roof of a multi-storey car-park behind the stand on the river side.

A combination of the Tennis Club being cagey/slow about accepting the deal and the collapse in terms of house prices put an end to that idea.

When Leinster moved to the RDS , the costs of buying a green-field site somewhere reasonable and developing it would have been off the wall. Especially with the kind of revenue Leinster would have had at the time.

If you told anyone ~20 years ago that Leinster would become what they are today financially, you'd have been locked up for madness.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Jump_In_Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085657#Comment_122085657

That's all perfectly reasonable, and so was the decision to rebuild Thomond at the time. Posters taking aim continually at Munster for owning their stadium and having to pay back a long-term loan are being totally disingenuous, when they took out the loan there was a sound business plan backing it up. It may yet turn around with the Munster team seemingly turning the corner and getting better to watch and better results lately.

Lord Palmerston

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085370#Comment_122085370

Believe this is the case - my wife and I were actively bidding on a house in Havelock Square a few years back and the agent on the sale told us the IRFU were an active bidder, and that they had a standing interest in any houses that went for sale on the square. We didn't succeed in buying that house.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085702#Comment_122085702

I'd agree - When Munster made that decision , they owned the site , they were the leading Club in the country and one of the biggest club sides in the game, serially getting to Semi-final/Final stages of Europe etc. so the plan made absolute sense.

Then the Global economy wiped out , Munsters on-pitch fortunes dipped sharply and as a result revenue dropped accordingly.

As you say , Munster finally seem to have players coming through the Academy pathway and the on-pitch performances are improving greatly so hopefully revenue follows suit.