The Vaccine

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What's the point of showing us someone lying in the street supposedly dead in a report about Covid if it's nothing to do with Covid like your suggesting, really grasping at straws to say the picture is not related to the story.

Because they were highlighting the hazmat style suits and paranoia around the virus. So we can agree they never claimed he died of covid and if anything you were perpetuating misinformation.

323

Trigger wrote: »

OK.. and how is this linked to a conspiracy theory about the vaccines?

Reading through that article, apart from the guardian stirring up s**t when the reporters said that did not know how this man in China died.


What caught my attention and smells just a wee bit off was the image in the same article for "Confirmed cases of coronavirus" 16th March, 81k cases in China, rest of the world accounted for an additional quarter of that.
But this is the same date Moderna began human trials on their mRNA vaccine.



Amazing foresight for Moderna, a company with zero track record, who had yet to produce a medicine, with abysmal staff and executive turnover, to have all their market research and product development done before most of the world even realised there was a need.

Lex Luthor

runawaybishop wrote: »

Another spurious claim without evidence. PCR cycles are per the manufacturers recommendations. There is no one size fits all approach on cycles.

So Fauci is wrong?

After all he is the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases

Here is just one of many sources of what Fauci said

https://1027kearneymo.com/kpgz-news/2020/11/9/covid-tests-may-inflate-numbers-by-picking-up-dead-virus

Dohnjoe

323 wrote: »

Reading through that article, apart from the guardian stirring up s**t when the reporters said that did not know how this man in China died.


What caught my attention and smells just a wee bit off was the image in the same article for "Confirmed cases of coronavirus" 16th March, 81k cases in China, rest of the world accounted for an additional quarter of that.
But this is the same date Moderna began human trials on their mRNA vaccine.



Amazing foresight for Moderna, a company with zero track record, who had yet to produce a medicine, with abysmal staff and executive turnover, to have all their market research and product development done before most of the world even realised there was a need.

Moderna started the trial phase around two months (March/April) after receiving the sequence from Chinese authorities (January)
https://www.modernatx.com/modernas-work-potential-vaccine-against-covid-19

What is the conspiracy explanation? (with evidence, not imagined)

Lex Luthor

nino1 wrote: »

They are rising as a result of inter county and inter generation mixing over the last few weeks but it might be just at a lower rate if the cycles were reduced to 25. Reducing the cycles to 25 does not mean more people are not getting infected with covid.

When you have a testing procedure that has a ct > 35 then you pick up a lot of variants and false positives. Even the flu could possibly get counted as a false positive for COVID

But we have little or no flu cases at the moment

nino1 wrote: »

So do you not think the vaccine is effective?

Time will tell, imo this virus is not threatening our way of life as its made out to be to warrant global lockdowns and make a vaccine in record time to fix it

nino1 wrote: »

do you not think there is any correlation with case numbers and ICU admissions?

There doesnt seem to be, ICU cases in the last few weeks are up & down each day +1 or 2 and some days - 1 or 2 when "cases" have gone up

The Nal

Lex Luthor wrote: »

There doesnt seem to be, ICU cases in the last few weeks are up & down each day +1 or 2 and some days - 1 or 2 when "cases" have gone up

People die in ICU so the numbers go down.

Dohnjoe

Lex Luthor wrote: »

imo this virus is not threatening our way of life as its made out to be to warrant global lockdowns and make a vaccine in record time to fix it

Exactly, in your opinion. Other's have the opinion that it's fake, that it was planned, that it's part of a giant global conspiracy by the NWO/Communists/Fascists/UN/Gates/Elites/Hedge funds/etc

So you have a lot of competition in that department

kippy

Theres some people posting on here that you'd genuinely be concerned about....

Lex Luthor

I'm still amazed that we are over 2500 posts into this thread and discussing the "vaccine" and people still are happy enough to fight its corner and think its safe as houses to take after a couple of months of testing


In the European Union, the European Medicines Agency supervises regulation of vaccines and other drugs. A committee of the World Health Organization makes recommendations for biological products used internationally. Many countries have adopted the WHO standards.

Stages of Vaccine Development and Testing
In the United States, vaccine development and testing follow a standard set of steps. The first stages are exploratory in nature. Regulation and oversight increase as the candidate vaccine makes its way through the process.

First Steps: Laboratory and Animal Studies
Exploratory Stage
This stage involves basic laboratory research and often lasts 2-4 years. Federally funded academic and governmental scientists identify natural or synthetic antigens that might help prevent or treat a disease. These antigens could include virus-like particles, weakened viruses or bacteria, weakened bacterial toxins, or other substances derived from pathogens.

Pre-Clinical Stage
Pre-clinical studies use tissue-culture or cell-culture systems and animal testing to assess the safety of the candidate vaccine and its immunogenicity, or ability to provoke an immune response. Animal subjects may include mice and monkeys. These studies give researchers an idea of the cellular responses they might expect in humans. They may also suggest a safe starting dose for the next phase of research as well as a safe method of administering the vaccine.

Researchers may adapt the candidate vaccine during the pre-clinical state to try to make it more effective. They may also do challenge studies with the animals, meaning that they vaccinate the animals and then try to infect them with the target pathogen.

Many candidate vaccines never progress beyond this stage because they fail to produce the desired immune response. The pre-clinical stages often lasts 1-2 years and usually involves researchers in private industry.

IND Application
A sponsor, usually a private company, submits an application for an Investigational New Drug (IND) to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. The sponsor describes the manufacturing and testing processes, summarizes the laboratory reports, and describes the proposed study. An institutional review board, representing an institution where the clinical trial will be conducted, must approve the clinical protocol. The FDA has 30 days to approve the application.

Once the IND application has been approved, the vaccine is subject to three phases of testing.

Phase I Vaccine Trials
This first attempt to assess the candidate vaccine in humans involves a small group of adults, usually between 20-80 subjects. If the vaccine is intended for children, researchers will first test adults, and then gradually step down the age of the test subjects until they reach their target. Phase I trials may be non-blinded (also known as open-label in that the researchers and perhaps subjects know whether a vaccine or placebo is used).

The goals of Phase 1 testing are to assess the safety of the candidate vaccine and to determine the type and extent of immune response that the vaccine provokes. In a small minority of Phase 1 vaccine trials, researchers may use the challenge model, attempting to infect participants with the pathogen after the experimental group has been vaccinated. The participants in these studies are carefully monitored and conditions are carefully controlled. In some cases, an attenuated, or modified, version of the pathogen is used for the challenge.

A promising Phase 1 trial will progress to the next stage.

Phase II Vaccine Trials
A larger group of several hundred individuals participates in Phase II testing. Some of the individuals may belong to groups at risk of acquiring the disease. These trials are randomized and well controlled, and include a placebo group.

The goals of Phase II testing are to study the candidate vaccine’s safety, immunogenicity, proposed doses, schedule of immunizations, and method of delivery.

Phase III Vaccine Trials
Successful Phase II candidate vaccines move on to larger trials, involving thousands to tens of thousands of people. These Phase III tests are randomized and double blind and involve the experimental vaccine being tested against a placebo (the placebo may be a saline solution, a vaccine for another disease, or some other substance).

One Phase III goal is to assess vaccine safety in a large group of people. Certain rare side effects might not surface in the smaller groups of subjects tested in earlier phases. For example, suppose that an adverse event related to a candidate vaccine might occur in 1 of every 10,000 people. To detect a significant difference for a low-frequency event, the trial would have to include 60,000 subjects, half of them in the control, or no vaccine, group (Plotkin SA et al. Vaccines, 5th ed. Philadelphia: Saunders, 2008).

Vaccine efficacy is tested as well. These factors might include 1) Does the candidate vaccine prevent disease? 2) Does it prevent infection with the pathogen? 3) Does it lead to production of antibodies or other types of immune responses related to the pathogen?

After a successful Phase III trial, the vaccine developer will submit a Biologics License Application to the FDA. Then the FDA will inspect the factory where the vaccine will be made and approve the labeling of the vaccine.

After licensure, the FDA will continue to monitor the production of the vaccine, including inspecting facilities and reviewing the manufacturer’s tests of lots of vaccines for potency, safety and purity. The FDA has the right to conduct its own testing of manufacturers’ vaccines.

---

And this all happened in a few months in 2020.......imagine that
"but but but, they had thousands of scientists working on it and thats why it was done quicker"

"They carried out animal tests...."

If I pay a guy to paint my house and I come home at lunch time and he's finished after a few hours of a top coat, does that mean its done properly just cos he says he "painted" it?
What about the prep work, the time needed to get the surfaces right, the priming, the undercoat?
Because I know if the time isnt spent prepping it, after a while, its just going to peel off

If you put your car in for a service and the mechanic hands it back and says its not 100% safe and we rushed the testing procedure, would you drive it?

Lex Luthor

The Nal wrote: »

People die in ICU so the numbers go down.

and people also leave ICU without dying

King Mob

Lex Luthor wrote: »

I'm still amazed that we are over 2500 posts into this thread and discussing the "vaccine" and people still are happy enough to fight its corner and think its safe as houses to take after a couple of months of testing

Yes, because you denialists have repeatedly failed to show any dangers or any concerns that aren't based on paranoia, ignorance or complete fabrication.

Why is it surprising that no one believes you when this is all you're offering?

runawaybishop

Lex Luthor wrote: »

So Fauci is wrong?

After all he is the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases

Here is just one of many sources of what Fauci said

https://1027kearneymo.com/kpgz-news/2020/11/9/covid-tests-may-inflate-numbers-by-picking-up-dead-virus

He may be correct for some PCR tests, but as I have said there is no one size fits all recommendation.

Lex Luthor

King Mob wrote: »

Yes, because you denialists have repeatedly failed to show any dangers or any concerns that aren't based on paranoia, ignorance or complete fabrication.

Typical vaccine trials timelines being rushed should be enough to show concerns

Just because you choose to ignore the facts, doesnt change them

Lex Luthor

runawaybishop wrote: »

He may be correct for some PCR tests, but as I have said there is no one size fits all recommendation.

ok

US2

On this week last year. 600+ hospital admissions with flu. 94 in ICU beds

This year no flu atall, 30 in ICU with Covid.

King Mob

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Typical vaccine trials timelines being rushed should be enough to show concerns

Just because you choose to ignore the facts, doesnt change them

But this has been explained to you. They didn't cut corners in the testing. They had many of the red tape hurdles removed. That's all.

So your claim that they "rushed the vaccine" is one of those falsehoods based on your ignorance that you extrapolate with your paranoia.
You have not presented facts and you seem completely allergic to providing them.

And again, you fail to show any danger at all.
Because there isn't any. As the trials have shown.

GT89

storker wrote: »

If you're not washing your hands then no, you're not doing your bit.

Most people aren't either it's already been proven that fomite transmission of is tiny so washing your hands is not really that effective anyway. Washing your hands constantly destroys your skin was doing back in March and April and my hands were in bits.

drunkmonkey

King Mob wrote: »

But this has been explained to you. They didn't cut corners in the testing. They had many of the red tape hurdles removed. That's all.

So your claim that they "rushed the vaccine" is one of those falsehoods based on your ignorance that you extrapolate with your paranoia.
You have not presented facts and you seem completely allergic to providing them.

And again, you fail to show any danger at all.
Because there isn't any. As the trials have shown.

Why didn't they do the same with other life saving treatments for more serious diseases. Covid is well down the list of things that's probably going to kill most of us.
If we can cut red tape for Covid why not for cancer and heart disease.

Your saying no danger but you were saying that same about the swine flue vaccine back in the day, save lives by getting it you said, it destroyed some. You thought you were right then when you should have been screaming don't take this unless your a fan of narcolepsy.

runawaybishop

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Why didn't they do the same with other life saving treatments for more serious diseases. Covid is well down the list of things that's probably going to kill most of us.
If we can cut red tape for Covid why not for cancer and heart disease.

Your saying no danger but you were saying that same about the swine flue vaccine back in the day, save lives by getting it you said, it destroyed some. You thought you were right then when you should have been screaming don't take this unless your a fan of narcolepsy.

They aren't infectious diseases with the potential to overwhelm hospitals. Vaccines cause far less issues than the diseases they target

robinph

drunkmonkey wrote: »

If we can cut red tape for Covid why not for cancer and heart disease.

Cancer and heart disease are not contagious for starters.

GT89

storker wrote: »

So because there's a plan and a timeline for the distribution of the vaccine, this means that the whole outbreak was faked?

Have you any evidence for this assertion?

(Fingers crossed that after 2,500+ posts, someone claiming that it's all a conspiracy will actually put together a coherent claim based on reasoned argument using supportive evidence.)

"The truth conspiracy theory is out there...somewhere..."

Did I say the whole outbreak was faked? All I'm doing is questioning throughout the start we have been given timelines with regards to covid whether when will restrictions be eased/implemented. My question is does the virus know to stick to these timelines. Why isn't the virus mutating that's what viruses do and if there are any mutations why are they still adament the vaccine will still work. How do they know this information and why are there so many contradictions?

runawaybishop

GT89 wrote: »

Did I say the whole outbreak was faked? All I'm doing is questioning throughout the start we have been given timelines with regards to covid whether when will restrictions be eased/implemented. My question is does the virus know to stick to these timelines. Why isn't the virus mutating that's what viruses do and if there are any mutations why are they still adament the vaccine will still work. How do they know this information and why are there so many contradictions?

Where on earth have you been, do you live in a cave? Go educate yourself on the last while then come back to us.

robinph

GT89 wrote: »

Did I say the whole outbreak was faked? All I'm doing is questioning throughout the start we have been given timelines with regards to covid whether when will restrictions be eased/implemented. My question is does the virus know to stick to these timelines. Why isn't the virus mutating that's what viruses do and if there are any mutations why are they still adament the vaccine will still work. How do they know this information and why are there so many contradictions?

You must have missed the recent news with UK and South African mutations. They are not certain about if the vaccines will work for the new mutations, although likely they will as the changes don't affect what the vaccine work with apparently.

Timberrrrrrrr

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Why didn't they do the same with other life saving treatments for more serious diseases. Covid is well down the list of things that's probably going to kill most of us.
If we can cut red tape for Covid why not for cancer and heart disease.

Your saying no danger but you were saying that same about the swine flue vaccine back in the day, save lives by getting it you said, it destroyed some. You thought you were right then when you should have been screaming don't take this unless your a fan of narcolepsy.

Which strain of cancer or heart disease?

buzzerxx

Chinese reporter got 4 years in jail for reporting the truth bout the virus....

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thejournal.ie%2Fchinese-citizen-journalist-jailed-covid-reporting-5311883-Dec2020%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR2c4LaLrI-bDegvS3RDitE3eDTNmHAOBKAUgWzgOPypju7PcYNSjwVBpuw&h=AT00NzpASHJPmA7Y8ltzpdMoCyqH2a-LBT59P5aMkz8wVO3sGOR0CutuayfYK8MSliA1BI_DhPGUTm4vACVe1a4tOYxhz_588y2-U6ZJisraUHHGD66i9vJWmV0bTQox3g&__tn__=R]-R&c[0]=AT02F1mpGbAXrOkF1ZkI9I4ERdVLxU8gDBLg0gFVs6JRosLWDZeJ9zbQlSA63ZWIUO12u9YDbCnLaVey92EDkPRySfQvgB62CBgnwKx4IINPteDOlApitgKKEVX-F3VX_tfcK3RjFMyuvX9TxxviVwp4uEVWOut4FEHDcK8

drunkmonkey

robinph wrote: »

Cancer and heart disease are not contagious for starters.

They're bigger killers, why no global effort, no operation warp speed, no daily reporting of deaths and positive tests.
Hopefully if these covid vaccine trials work out ok, they may be able to use mRNA to combat likes of cancer.

robinph

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They're bigger killers, why no global effort, no operation warp speed, no daily reporting of deaths and positive tests.
Hopefully if these covid vaccine trials work out ok, they may be able to use mRNA to combat likes of cancer.

They are not contagious though.

runawaybishop

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They're bigger killers, why no global effort, no operation warp speed, no daily reporting of deaths and positive tests.
Hopefully if these covid vaccine trials work out ok, they may be able to use mRNA to combat likes of cancer.

We already use mRNA for cancer treatment. It's not new.

What cancer and what heart disease should we focus on, there are quite a few and we are already doing massive fundraisers and spending billions on them.

Do you understand what an infectious disease is and why it is approached differently? It seems clear you don't.

Lex Luthor

King Mob wrote: »

They didn't cut corners in the testing. They had many of the red tape hurdles removed. That's all.

no cause for concern then :rolleyes:

King Mob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Why didn't they do the same with other life saving treatments for more serious diseases.

I agree. they should provide more funding for other research too.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Covid is well down the list of things that's probably going to kill most of us.
If we can cut red tape for Covid why not for cancer and heart disease.

Covid has killed nearly 1.8 million people now.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Your saying no danger but you were saying that same about the swine flue vaccine back in the day, save lives by getting it you said, it destroyed some. You thought you were right then when you should have been screaming don't take this unless your a fan of narcolepsy.

But as you've been shown and ran away from, the chances of developing narcolepsy after taking the vaccine was 0.0005 percent.
The chances of dying from covid is between 1 and 2 percent. You're saying that covid is not a big deal and it isn't a danger. So it doesn't make sense for you to claim that narcolepsy is a danger when 1. it's not fatal and 2. had a far lower chance of occuring and 3. is not a side effect of the covid vaccine.