The Next Chapter - Being Better Than Most People At Most Things

BeginnerRunner

Running has always been my Achilles heel. Recently, after many years of lifting heavy things, I figured it was time to really get stuck into solving that problem.

Over the years I've done some decent strength and anaerobic ...things... but never really managed to crack running.

Sitting around 100kg with lungs that were far more ready to run than my legs were to carry me, combined with 15 years of squatting topping out at over 2.5x bodyweight means I'm taking a softly softly approach, loosely following Hal Higdon's Novice 10k plan and trying to build into things slowly and conservatively.

My raw engine/power output SHOULD be such that if I can just survive the initial 8-12 weeks of training without breaking myself, I'll settle into a rhythm quite nicely.

I base that previous statement off the fact I've rowed a 6.45.xx 2k and an 18.40ish 5k in the last 12 months, and while I probably wouldn't replicate those feats today as they were fairly deep into a rowing specific training cycle, I'm much fitter now than I was at the start of THAT journey so I think I'd get back there quickly enough.

I'm a first time dad with a 20 month old who has an aversion to sleeping, I run my own business (as does my wife) so finding time to fit everything in can be a bit of a challenge.

Am now towards the tail end of my 5th week of training and wanted to actually have a bit of momentum before starting this. I've always found that being able to talk to more experienced people in a field is very helpful from a learning POV.

Before the year's out I'm hoping to see a < 25 minute 5k, a 57-58 minute 10k, and just continue to clock up the mileage week on week.

Current best efforts during oct/nov are;

5k - 27m 23
1k - 4m 27s

The 5k was comfortable, and the 1k was during a longer run where I just fancied a bit of a hard squeeze.

I generally lift 3x per week for about 45-60 minutes a time.

Aaaaaaand the first few weeks of run training are coming....

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PS - the log title is my goal, to be better than almost everyone at almost everything. I don't have the time or energy to dedicate to being anywhere near national caliber in lifting anymore. It's a 20+ hour per week effort that leaves you feeling like complete **** all the time. It was grand in my 20s but not in my 30s!

I'm still stronger than 99% of the population, I've rowed 2k faster than most people could touch, spent a winter learning to swim capping out at 1,000m unbroken and now want to figure out what kind of run numbers need to happen to be above average at running.

....which all sounds very arrogant and conceited, I know - but having done ok in a couple of different sports I understand and appreciate just how much work and effort goes into them, so I enjoy the idea of being able to talk with a reasonable level of proficiency across domains

BeginnerRunner

WEEK 1

Approx. 13km by way of 5k / 3k / 5k

WEEK 2

13.2km by way of 4k / 3.2k / 6k

The 6km run on 25/10 was the last one I actually pushed a bit on. Average pace was 5m 34s with the first half being mostly uphill, and the second half mostly downhilll chasing myself home.

HR average for that run by chest strap was 83%.

MHR is 196, for the record.

WEEK 3

15.75km by way of 4.15k / 4.6k / 7k

Started to focus this week on trying to run purposely slow (which is REALLY hard by the way).

WEEK 4

16.2km by way of 5.1k / 3.1k / 8k

8k was 5m 55s average pace at 81% MHR. Calf tightened up A LOT about 1.5-2k in, to the point where I considered bailing but was far enough from home I figured I’d ease into it, run on grass and see if when I was closer to home I’d need to return.

Ended up running past my gaff at the 6k mark feeling ok and finished out the 8k feeling good.

Ice, rest and stretch had it feeling ok ish.

WEEK 5

That’s this week…

Did a VERY slow 3k test run yesterday to make sure my calf was ok before 6k in the pissing rain and 20mph breeze today which finished at about a 6m 08s average pace and 77% MHR.

Don’t normally run back to back days but schedule is such I won’t get to run again until the weekend where a flat easy 9k is planned.

As of this morning, my bodyweight was 95.9kg.

shotgunmcos

Welcome! Interesting, from lifting to running.. thats quite the transition!

Have you ditched the rowing completely or still do a bit as cross or HIIT? I did a block of rowing during the summer (much to the bafflement of the hardcore runners around here) as I was injured and ended that with a 2k recently. Such a simple but brutal test. Weight moves weight so if you hit 6:45 at 100kg, it would be pretty challenging to hit that as the weight falls off in this running phase

Smart to take the slowly slowly approach. Like anything new you should see gains early but not to get caught up in that. The fundamental difference that running brings is impact. Since you are a heavier runner (muscle mass) shoe choice and accessories like foam rolling, stretching, conditioning weights etc will go a long way to feeling and sorting out niggles before they start to develop

Running slow is hard for sure!

Hopefully you keep the log going I'm interested to follow.

BeginnerRunner

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Welcome! Interesting, from lifting to running.. thats quite the transition!

Have you ditched the rowing completely or still do a bit as cross or HIIT? I did a block of rowing during the summer (much to the bafflement of the hardcore runners around here) as I was injured and ended that with a 2k recently. Such a simple but brutal test. Weight moves weight so if you hit 6:45 at 100kg, it would be pretty challenging to hit that as the weight falls off in this running phase

Smart to take the slowly slowly approach. Like anything new you should see gains early but not to get caught up in that. The fundamental difference that running brings is impact. Since you are a heavier runner (muscle mass) shoe choice and accessories like foam rolling, stretching, conditioning weights etc will go a long way to feeling and sorting out niggles before they start to develop

Running slow is hard for sure!

Hopefully you keep the log going I'm interested to follow.

Just saw your 2k report - lovely time. Nothing hurts like a hard 2k, tho I have found the fletcher warm up does A LOT to diminish the pain.

The weight thing on rowing is interesting, tho I'm not sure I agree. I see it more as a game of wattage, and how long you can sustain that for before tipping over the LT. A lot of the theory I see around 2k TTs is that they're up to 80% aerobic, so if you've a good base of strength and a big engine, weight SHOULDN'T matter too much.

(I'm aware of the rowing weight classes, which are really just height classes in disguise!).

Have you noticed any carry over from rowing to running? Do you feel like the base work you've done will have a positive effect?

I'm steering clear of the rower for now. You're more likely to see me working on the ski erg or assault bike since I find it mentally less demanding as I've no real basis of comparison for what's "good".

I think the last 8 month block of rowing put me into a true overtraining state for about the third time in 15 years. Looking back A LOT of the work was averaging > 80% MHR during that period. Rowing 4x per week for 7-8 months at those intensities wiped me out.

Definitely shoulda known better but things were going so well I just kept the hammer down (lesson learned!).

Actually last Q, ever tried a 30 minute MAF test on the erg? How'd it go?

shotgunmcos

LOL google Brian Shaw and 100m erg :eek:

Plenty of elite crossfit and rugby converts knocking out impressive scores over 500, 1k, 2k.. .distances they tend to zone in on. Yes rowing (on the machine.. weight sinks boats!) is about wattage and your engine.

Pure rowing is the best example. Lightweights (70kg) and heavyweighs (100kg) have roughly the same base, VO2 max, LT, same technique and similar speed on the water heavier boats have more drag). The difference at elite level testing between the 2 on the erg over 2k is about 20-30 secs (5:40-5:50 for HW and 6:00-6:10 for LW) which is a significant gap over 2k.

Anyway wont turn your new log into a debate:) One last thing on rowing is it sounds like you did a lot of intense volume during that period which would understandably wipe you out. The erg uses 84% of your muscles and burns serious calories. The good thing I took from running to rowing was to keep 80-90% of my weekly volume it easy or very easy. It allowed me to build the base and execute workouts on target. I hit 17:51 for 5k mostly on aerobic base and a handful of specific workouts layered on top. I'm 78kg for context.

What I found after a base of rowing (2,000km) was interesting. I transitioned back to running quicker as my general aerobic base was good. Interestingly hills were not as much of an effort as when you start out running. Just better core and strength from rowing so my posture didn't fall down.

The key thing about running is the running mechanics. You just have to build the volume, resistance and technique slower. Tendons and ligament have to work much harder and need to recover just like your muscle fibres. So while I was able to run 40-60 mins after all the rowing, I had aches and niggles. I also felt my hamstrings tighten at an alarming rate.

I'd suggest taking the opposite approach to running that you did to rowing. Build your base and layer gradually progressive workouts on top.

I don't specifically use MAF but I adopt that benchmarking in rowing or running. I train a lot by heart rate and in base phase I will cap my heart rate for most easy runs. That means sometimes walking on hills. I usually do a specific 30 minute or 5k at capped lower aerobic HR and run the same route, conditions cap again month on month. MAF would be a good way to keep a lid on it for the first month or 2 but its an insanely boring method of training.

Most easy runs are 70-80% (capped) MHR or 60-70% HRR.

BeginnerRunner

Hadn't planned to... but figure I may as well record my lifting as part of this just to look back over time and see how the two interplay.

This week was a down week with no leg work to give my body a bit of recovery. Only trained 2x, with yesterday being the second.

Prehab / Prep Work*:
15ish mins

Comp Bench:
117.5 x4
122.5 x4
127.5 x4 @ 8.5
122.5 3x4

Close Grip Bench:
105 x6
110 x6 @ 8
105 2x5

Other:
About 150-200 pull aparts

Skipped back accessory work as I ran outta time.

*put together a little prehab routine to try and cover off the things I'm likely to ignore because I feel good now that will become important when it's too late...

30s each side for unilateral work, 5s to switch x2 rounds:
Leg Swings
Peterson Step Up
Split Stance Calf Raise
Reverse Lunge
Prisoner Squat
Lying Leg Raise
Hollow Hold
High Plank
Side Plank

Also did it before my long run ex. core work and felt the best I've felt from the off.

BeginnerRunner

Sunday Long Run, on Saturday.

11.44km @ 5m 46s avg**
66 minutes
77% MHR average

Total for the week: 20.2km

Bit of a random exploration run today tbh. We moved to Bray recently and I was out with a local who's lived there his entire life. Was too wet and windy to run the cliff walk so asked him to show me around the south side on foot. It was quite undulating so struggled to control HR, but very pleasantly surprised to see where it came in.

The plan was 9km @ 6m 30s which woulda got us to 58m 30s. Ended back on the prom roughly on track and said we may as well just finish out a 10k since we were both feeling good.

**I'm not actually show how far we ran. It's weird - he was wearing a polar v700 on that recorded 10.31km @ 6m 11s average pace, I was wearing an apple watch SE running strava - anyone ever get this before!?

BeginnerRunner

6km @ 6m 04s avg
36m 31s
74% MHR avg

Early one today. Out and running by 6.40am after a 15 minute warm up at home.

Trying to normalise my bed and wake times across the week and just get up and out for some earlier runs so I don't have them hanging over me the rest of the day.

Checked a route that was 3k out and back and ahead of time, turned strava on but left my watch set to display HR% only and stuck rigidly to that.

The pace was absolutely sexy. Just so comfy and enjoyable.

It's still taking me 2-3km worth of running to feel like I'm settling into any kind of rhythm.

Followed it up with a 3km walk with my wife, baby and dog.

Great start to the week.

BeginnerRunner

A) Squats:
140kg 30x1, going every 30s

Comp Bench:
137.5kg x1 @8
130kg x3 @7.5
125kg 4x3

C) Inverted Rows:
5x10

Other:
5x12 band pull aparts

Nice little 52 minute session. All feels kind pointless. Doing enough to maintain muscle is about all I'm up for now. If I can do that while losing a few kg over the rest of the year I'll be happy.

Bodyweight was a 2020 Tuesday low of 95.7kg. Normally my lowest weight is Thursday/Friday morning.

Changed squatting around a bit to try and preserve my legs with the run volume picking up.

5k planned tomorrow morning, 20 minute easy run the day after and then a longer one at the weekend to knock off the my first 4x/week before starting the hal higdon half marathon plan next week.

BeginnerRunner

6.44km @ 6m 00s avg
38m 44s
74% MHR avg

Quick 15 minute movement & stability based warm up before setting off this morning literally meant I hit the ground running

Starting to really question the apple watch se GPS.

Pretty much the same route as Monday which came out as 6km, and run buddy was wearing a polar OH1 today which gave a distance of 5.8km.

Anyway... it was almost 40 minutes of running in a really nice HR zone, so how much else really matters &#55358;&#56631;&#55356;&#57339;*♂️

Murph_D

BeginnerRunner wrote: »

6.44km @ 6m 00s avg
38m 44s
74% MHR avg

Quick 15 minute movement & stability based warm up before setting off this morning literally meant I hit the ground running

Starting to really question the apple watch se GPS.

Pretty much the same route as Monday which came out as 6km, and run buddy was wearing a polar OH1 today which gave a distance of 5.8km.

Anyway... it was almost 40 minutes of running in a really nice HR zone, so how much else really matters ����*♂️

It's probably really 5.9k.

BeginnerRunner

Murph_D wrote: »

It's probably really 5.9k.

Aaaaand google maps says it's 3.01km out (so you would assume the same back).

Complete PITA :D:D

BeginnerRunner

1km @ around 70% MHR, super easy warm up
2km hard -- 4m 55s avg -- 90% HR avg
1km trying to let my HR come back down

Also started the session with 20 minutes of strength work.

Currently reading HR Training For The Compleat Idiot and trying to apply the easy/hard principle.

Running 4x per week from next week following the hal higdon half marathon plan, so will keep the shorter day as the "hard" one all the way thru, with the rest around that 70% number he recommends.

For my own record - the easy days are approx. 76% MHR and hard days are approx. 90% MHR.

shotgunmcos

BeginnerRunner wrote: »

For my own record - the easy days are approx. 76% MHR and hard days are approx. 90% MHR.

When you say approx 76% MHR, what exactly is your approach?

BeginnerRunner

shotgunmcos wrote: »

When you say approx 76% MHR, what exactly is your approach?

Current stats are;

MHR = 196 (maxed on a 30ish minute row workout)
RHR = 53 (per apple watch)

Then using the formula from the book;

(196-53)*70% + 53 = 153

153 is 78% and seems way too high for easy work.

So I took 5 beats off to get 148, or 76% of actual MHR.

That's it right?

shotgunmcos

BeginnerRunner wrote: »

Current stats are;

MHR = 196 (maxed on a 30ish minute row workout)
RHR = 53 (per apple watch)

Then using the formula from the book;

(196-53)*70% + 53 = 153

153 is 78% and seems way too high for easy work.

So I took 5 beats off to get 148, or 76% of actual MHR.

That's it right?

So thats a value. What I was hoping you would say is that was your cap for easy runs If you were doing 4 runs a week, I'd suggest
1) Short @ 70-75% (maybe build in some strides)
2) Workout
3) <70% - lowest end of easy
4) Longer @ 70-75%

BeginnerRunner

shotgunmcos wrote: »

So thats a value. What I was hoping you would say is that was your cap for easy runs If you were doing 4 runs a week, I'd suggest
1) Short @ 70-75% (maybe build in some strides)
2) Workout
3) <70% - lowest end of easy
4) Longer @ 70-75%

Soz - misunderstood!

Rough plan was;

M - easy 6-8k run @ around 75% MHR
T
W - easy 6-8k run @ around 75% MHR
T - Shorter hard run (somewhere between 3 and 6k inc warm up/cool down)
F
S - Long Run @ 75% MHR

I've no appetite at all for multiple hard workouts each week. I barely wanna do 1!!

The way my week works I can only run M/W morning which gives me a bit more time, and Sat has to be my longer day.

What's the recommend number of strides? Start around 4/5 and build to 10?

BeginnerRunner

Didn't wanna lift today. Lifted anyway.

A) TBDL
150kg 15x1 going every 30s

Long Pause Bench
110kg x3
115kg x3
120kg x3 @7.5
115kg 4x3

C) Touch and Go Bench
115kg x3
120kg x3
125kg x3
127.5kg x3 @8
125kg 2x3

Other Stuff, done throughout the session:
Pull aparts 5x15
Pull Ups 5x5
Chin Ups 5x5

Total workout time was 52 minutes. VERY slow to start. Then got REALLY into it after about 25 minutes. So strange.

BeginnerRunner

12.23km @ 5m 44s avg
70 minutes
77% MHR avg

Total mileage for the week: 28.72km

Had a GREAT sleep last night. Lovely big breakfast. Walked the dog. Went to the beach with baby and wife. Was 7km into the day of walking before setting off to run at 11am. Had a lovely espresso and rocky road. Nice long warm up stretch and activation.

Felt AMAZING.

...which meant the workout itself was guaranteed to be ****e.

For one my body surprised me and complied. Felt like I could run all day. What a magic feeling.

BeginnerRunner

6.27km @ 5m 58s avg
37m 28s
74% MHR avg

TERRIBLE night sleep, waking baby and a bit too much red wine meant this was a slightly later and far less enthusiastic start than last week.

Took a while for HR to settle into it, but once it did I felt great.

It's nice seeing the average pace tip down slightly each week as the HR% stays flat. I'm sure there's a very short shelf life to that, but I'll take it while it lasts.

Tried to add some strides at the end after the above but some light non specific hamstring tendon pain down towards my knee put paid to that after 3 reps. Felt good for the time done tho and I found a decent enough little spot to do them at the end of my run.

BeginnerRunner

This is from yesterday... busy day today so had to double up.

A) Squat:
120kg 6x4

Comp Bench:
140kg x1 @8
132.5kg x3 @9
130kg 3x3

C) Close Grip Bench:
107.5kg x4
112.5kg x4
117.5kg x4 @8
112.5kg 4x4

Other stuff that happened during the session:
Inverted Row 6x10
Band Pull Apart 8x12+
Band Flys
Band Push Ups
Band Push Downs

Took a while to get into the squats but they felt great once I did.

Happy for now just to tip away on the lower body strength work and keep it in a holding patttern. Gonna try find some way to get 40-60 reps each of moderate intensity squats and deadlifts in weekly to stay in that sweet spot.

Benching felt grand. Will just keep plugging away on it and look back several months down the line and see what's happened.

BeginnerRunner

3.13km @ 6m 28s avg
20m 16s
68% MHR avg

Calling this my "only in the dark" run from now on, because I don't think I'd actually want anyone to see me moving that slow.

I think a few walkers passed me.

It was so so so uncomfortably slow and really hard to see how runs like that over longer durations can help. But apparently they do. So off I go.

No plan to run today, but had a day in front of the laptop and a narrow window to do something to burn some energy so a quick roll, some glute work and a yog won the day.

BeginnerRunner

6.87km @ 5m 42s avg
39m 11s
73% MHR

What a lovely little bop.

Was up and out at 6.45am. Running at day break is just glorious.

Felt really great this morning. Didn't pay much attention to HRM, just ran and chatted with my run buddy.

Ended up a bit long, a bit quicker, and with a lower HR% than last week.

I hope the inevitable plateau never comes

shotgunmcos

Especially a cold crisp sunny daybreak. Love running into those dawns.

Seems like you are enjoying the running, thats the most important thing.

Interesting that my brother was more of a lifter and with rowing or cardio it was always hard short reps. Lately with a ski erg he suddenly started doing 1-2 hours that he always said would be too boring and is even out running 5ks.

He was also a sub7 2k erg, despite never rowing so he has an engine. Just curious about the sudden attraction endurance? You mentioned it was an achilles heal that you wanted to fix. Very different running in a crisp dawn than lifting cold weights in a crisp gym!

BeginnerRunner

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Especially a cold crisp sunny daybreak. Love running into those dawns.

Seems like you are enjoying the running, thats the most important thing.

Interesting that my brother was more of a lifter and with rowing or cardio it was always hard short reps. Lately with a ski erg he suddenly started doing 1-2 hours that he always said would be too boring and is even out running 5ks.

He was also a sub7 2k erg, despite never rowing so he has an engine. Just curious about the sudden attraction endurance? You mentioned it was an achilles heal that you wanted to fix. Very different running in a crisp dawn than lifting cold weights in a crisp gym!

I guess I like it because it's easy. It's a new challenge with lots of data points, the training is quite straight forward and not TOO time consuming. We just moved to Bray and the scenery and runs around here are stunning.

The level of fatigue it generates seems to be minimal. And the commute / set up & break down time is basically zero.

I despise exercise. HATE IT. Unnless I'm actively training for something I have no motivation.

It was great following a structured row program last year, but the intensity of it destroyed me.

Powerlifting is far too big a time and effort commitment. I can't afford 15-20 hours a week while running my own biz with a young family and feeling physically destroyed all the time.

There's no marginal benefit left in strength work for me either, and I don't have the inclination or discipline to look at something like bodybuilding.

Cardiovascularly, I'd class myself as "decent" but one dimensional. If something requires high watts (row / assault bike / ski) then I'm fairly solid on it, but I consider that a strength hangover and not "real" fitness.

Running was just something I could never get up for so it's been great facing up to that challenge and trying to round things off a bit.

I also think, with no scientific basis for this, that as we get older we gravitate more towards endurance work because of the long term life benefits. I'm seeing quite an uptake in similar amongst friends and people I know in their 30s and 40s.

BeginnerRunner

5.09km @ 5m 54s avg
30m 05s
75% MHR

REALLY didn't fancy today. Rough day in work - early start, then lots of time spent crawling on the floor and bent over in awkward positions getting ready for next week.

Day got completely away from me and I was having a socially distanced lunch with a mate and I had the option of going for a 7km stroll with him, or lifting some steel. Hadn't seen him in ages so the stroll won.

Not the ideal way to get ready for an evening run but c'est la vie.

Some gear I ordered from sportsshoes.com arrived so that was enough to get me out

BeginnerRunner

A) Trap Bar Deadlift - EMOM15:
150kg 5x2
155kg 10x2

Long Pause Bench:
120kg x2
122.5kg x2
125kg x2 @7
120kg 3x2

C) Pin Press:
120kg x4
125kg x4
127.5kg x4 @9
125kg x4

D) Touch and Go Bench:
120kg x3
125kg x3
130kg x3
132.5kg x3 @8

E) Close Grip Bench:
115kg 6x4

OTHER STUFF - done thru all the benching:
Pull Ups 5x5
Chin Ups 5x5
DB Row 5x10 @ 40kg
Band Pull Apart 5x20

Ridiculous session, but I missed A LOT of training this week so had to cram all my upper body work for the rest of the week into a single workout. Took about 95 minutes all in, so actually not too bad. Longest lifting session in a while. Really enjoyed that.

And just realised I ran Mon-Thur this week without a break. Will be interesting to see how tomorrow's long run goes.

We've been adding 5 mins a week for the last while - 75 mins up tomorrow. Weather looks like it's shaping up to be ok.

BeginnerRunner

17.07km @ 5m 47s avg
1hr 38min
78% MHR avg

Total Weekly Mileage: 38.43km

Definitely ran a bit too hard and a bit too far today buuuuuuut....

It was a lovely day and was having some really interesting business related chats with my run buddy. It was the first time we got back on the cliff route in a few weeks because the weather was good. And we missed our turning point.

Ended up turning a corner and seeing greystones and we'd be been talking about how great it'd be to build towards that run. We were both feeling good so we said we'd run in, run the planned duration (75 mins) back towards bray, and then walk the rest if we felt like we needed to.

Temporarily considered just running an extra 4k to tick off the half marathon but both agreed having it as an every day training run would be more rewarding than a "WTF we just smashed ourselves for what?" experience, so we clipped it.

It's a VERY hilly route across the cliff and was paying attention to the chats more than the HR so it got away a little bit, but we'll be back to normal service next week.

BeginnerRunner

7.29km @ 5m 52s avg
42m 47s
74% MHR avg

November Total: 118.09km

Out before the sun was up today. Pushing the Monday/Wednesday runs out slightly now with the intention of edging towards 8-9km on those days, 4-6km super slow pace on Thursday, and 13-15km+ for the weekend run for the year end.

BeginnerRunner

A) Front Squat:
105kg 2x5

HB Squat:
105kg 3x5

C) Pause Off The Floor Deadlift:
125kg 3x3

D) Deadlift:
145kg 3x4

E) Comp Bench:
140kg x1 @8
132.5kg x3 @8
130kg 3x3

F) Head Supported Row:
20kg 3x12

Enjoyable session with a buddy. Trying to increase squat and deadlift volume a bit so taking higher frequency with lower intensity into the mix. Almost at the end of a 9 week bench progression. Should comfortably bench over 1.5x bodyweight when testing in about 10 days.

Out early tomorrow for 7ish k.

BeginnerRunner

7.40km @ 5m 55s avg
43m 50s
70% MHR avg

Ultra early start today. Was HOME before 7am. Myself and run bud wives BOTH had early starts so we were home to the kids.

Heart rate stayed unusually low today. Maybe I'm getting fitter...

He works with sports teams so we threw on some playertek GPS vests he has to see how they measure up against our respective devices as neither of us are confident our watches are tracking correctly (his showed 6.66km today and we were shoulder to shoulder the entire run).

Looking forward to seeing the data later.