Labour want to bring back auto-birthright citizenship

weldoninhio

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

your post boils down to "the people who voted are stupid so we should ask them again" and is massively condescending to the people who voted.

Only the EU can do that, eh?

ohnonotgmail

weldoninhio wrote: »

Only the EU can do that, eh?

can you try that again in intelligent please?

weldoninhio

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

can you try that again in intelligent please?

Nice and Lisbon, the EU and our govt said both times, said that we "didn't understand" what they were for and we had to vote again.

ohnonotgmail

weldoninhio wrote: »

Nice and Lisbon, the EU and our govt said both times, said that we "didn't understand" what they were for and we had to vote again.

what does that have to do with anything I posted?

a_squirrelman

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

There is no doubt, there is effort in keeping the connection at least on paper. But if a child is born in Ireland its difficult understand why their connection should not be recognised. Getting citizenship through naturalisation isn't the same thing and, at least in theory, it can be revoked at any time.

Also, any child born on the island of Ireland after 2005 must claim Irish citizenship in accordance with law. So the children of children born after 2005 will find it more difficult to obtain a passport, for example, if their parent didn't hold one.

Oh come on, revoked for specific reasons by the Minister for Justice.

And on your second paragraph, a quick FAQ check on the webpage says:

My girlfriend and I are both Chinese citizens. We have been working in Ireland since early 2012 on work permits, and we had a baby boy late in 2015. Is the baby entitled to Irish citizenship?
Yes. As you have been legally resident in Ireland for 3 of the 4 years prior to the birth of your child, you will be considered to have had a genuine link to Ireland, and the baby will be entitled to Irish citizenship.

So someone who is LEGALLY in Ireland will have no issue with their child getting citizenship. In other words, come legally and you're grand, illegally and you'll be turfed out. Fair is fair.

CrabRevolution

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Unfortunately the amendment includes the phrasing "unless provided for by law.". Not that the rule of law is bad, but it means that it won't take another referendum to change the law back to birthright citizenship.

That's been the trend of recent referendums, to dismantle the Constitution. Repeal this, repeal that, until there is nothing left. If it's a fundamental right or duty then it should be in the Constitution.

a_squirrelman

weldoninhio wrote: »

Nice and Lisbon, the EU and our govt said both times, said that we "didn't understand" what they were for and we had to vote again.

Don't drag Nice and Lisbon into this, they are totally different, changes were made to address the issues, a quick google would show you that.

weldoninhio

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Don't drag Nice and Lisbon into this, they are totally different, changes were made to address the issues, a quick google would show you that.

"A new European Commission survey on Irish voting behaviour blames the extraordinary high level of abstention in the Nice referendum on a lack of information and a lack of understanding of the issues."

"THE DIFFICULTY faced by the Government in getting the Lisbon Treaty passed in a second referendum has been underlined by its own research which found that a significant number of people did not understand what they were voting on last June."

Quite condescending, no?

a_squirrelman

weldoninhio wrote: »

"A new European Commission survey on Irish voting behaviour blames the extraordinary high level of abstention in the Nice referendum on a lack of information and a lack of understanding of the issues."

"THE DIFFICULTY faced by the Government in getting the Lisbon Treaty passed in a second referendum has been underlined by its own research which found that a significant number of people did not understand what they were voting on last June."

Quite condescending, no?

There were groups who were totally misrepresenting the facts during those campaigns. SF were spouting EU army s**te etc.
Anyway, this isn't the thread for it, I think Bacik needs to crawl back to her Seaned seat and stop with this nonsense that nobody wants changed except her and the twitterati.

HerrKuehn

weldoninhio wrote: »

"A new European Commission survey on Irish voting behaviour blames the extraordinary high level of abstention in the Nice referendum on a lack of information and a lack of understanding of the issues."

"THE DIFFICULTY faced by the Government in getting the Lisbon Treaty passed in a second referendum has been underlined by its own research which found that a significant number of people did not understand what they were voting on last June."

Quite condescending, no?

Do you remember the posters in Dublin at the time? They were claiming if the treaty was voted in we would end up with a minimum wage of €1.89 an hour and be conscripted into a european super army.

Eric Cartman

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Do you remember the posters in Dublin at the time? They were claiming if the treaty was voted in we would end up with a minimum wage of €1.89 an hour and be conscripted into a european super army.

Well the did try put us in PESCO, and a lot of really low end jobs have been ehh replaced with contract workers from bulgaria etc.. being paid their local money. It was scaremongering but they got it 30% ish right

Eric Cartman

Also leaving the labour parties madness aside. This poll that says “70% of people would be in favour now” seems mad.

I cannot think of a single upside to allowing birth right citizenship, I can think of a lot of downsides.

Can any of labours supporters explain an upside ? Or is it just about virtue signalling that all immigrants are good

HerrKuehn

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Well the did try put us in PESCO, and a lot of really low end jobs have been ehh replaced with contract workers from bulgaria etc.. being paid their local money. It was scaremongering but they got it 30% ish right

they got it 100% wrong. The minimum wage is nowhere near that, there is no european super army and certainly no conscription.

biko

Perhaps this piece can tell us a bit more about Ivana Bacik and where she comes from.

My father was an astronomer and we went where the observatories were.
As result, I lived in London and South Africa before I came to Ireland.

We settled in Cloughduv, 20 miles west of Cork City, when I was six years of age. Going to the local national school was a bit of a culture shock.
Before that, I'd been living in London, which was very multi-ethnic. With fewer than 100 pupils, my new school seemed tiny.

I won a scholarship to go to Alexandra College in Dublin. Initially, I boarded. Later, my family all moved to Dublin.
I found Alex very different. It was a huge culture shock. It was single-sex for a start and the students were from much wealthier backgrounds.

I liked Alex's strong feminist tradition, though, but I was much more socialist than the school.

I went to the London School of Economics to do a master's in labour law and social theory.
LSE was very stimulating - you had the people who were the very best in their fields, there.
The college had a very broad international student population.
I loved living in London.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/ivana-bacik-1.253430

AlekSmart

biko wrote: »

Perhaps this piece can tell us a bit more about Ivana Bacik and where she comes from.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/ivana-bacik-1.253430

Perhaps there's a place on the Space Station for her ?:(

AlekSmart

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Well the did try put us in PESCO, and a lot of really low end jobs have been ehh replaced with contract workers from bulgaria etc.. being paid their local money. It was scaremongering but they got it 30% ish right

Did we even have Deliveroo back then...

TomTomTim

AlekSmart wrote: »

Perhaps there's a place on the Space Station for her ?:(

Do they have birthright citizenship in space?

Donald Trump

biko wrote: »

Perhaps this piece can tell us a bit more about Ivana Bacik and where she comes from.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/ivana-bacik-1.253430

Did her family not own Waterford Crystal?

Poor kid in the boarding school me bollix

Edit: Here you go. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bacik . Says he started it but sold it a few years later but stayed on as manager. Then her oul' fella was educated enough to travel the world as an astronomer. Not exactly Angela's Ashes

The_Kew_Tour

I have a funny feeling had the vote been the other way around in 2004 with Kelly and Ivana to oppose it, I say we would be hearing a lot more about Democracy.

If they did the same for Gay rights and Abortion they're be uproar (and rightly so)

Amazing the little loopholes some can exploit.

I would love to know the benefits of this going through? Answers on a postcard to the Gullible one please

Bonniedog

HerrKuehn wrote: »

they got it 100% wrong. The minimum wage is nowhere near that, there is no european super army and certainly no conscription.

Contract agency workers are not paid the Irish minimum wage. Those who came to work in Keelings were paid at local rates by the agency. Keelings could cover themselves by stating that they were paying the agency at the minimum wage per head.

Main obstacle to Bacik's nonsense will most likely again be EU which will not tolerate any member state having different citizenship laws as anyone claiming Irish citizenship can them move to any other member state.

Rather sad that there is not one party in Leinster House even questioning this virtue signalling nonsense.

enricoh

It's a bit grim to say the least that the eu have to rescue us from our own politicians!

We're the third most indebted country in the developed world and these clowns want to take in more people that'll add to out debt.

Gunmonkey

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Also leaving the labour parties madness aside. This poll that says “70% of people would be in favour now” seems mad.

I cannot think of a single upside to allowing birth right citizenship, I can think of a lot of downsides.

Can any of labours supporters explain an upside ? Or is it just about virtue signalling that all immigrants are good

Is Labour policy ever about anything else these days?

kildare lad

enricoh wrote: »

It's a bit grim to say the least that the eu have to rescue us from our own politicians!

We're the third most indebted country in the developed world and these clowns want to take in more people that'll add to out debt.

On the plus side, dublin's the most expensive when it comes to cost of living. Sure give everyone a house when they come here and squeeze the taxpayers even more .

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-expensive-europe-euro-cost-of-living-5118042-Jun2020/

DUBLIN HAS BEEN ranked as one of the most expensive places to live in Europe, according to a new survey. 

The survey of over 200 cities, carried out by Mercer – which publishes a yearly guide to the cost of living in cities – ranked Dublin 46th, making it the most expensive city in the eurozone. 

The cost of renting was named as one of the reasons for Dublin’s high cost of living. The latest data from property website Daft.ie shows that there has been a 39% increase in the number of properties advertised to rent in the city, with the average monthly rent nationwide in May set at €1,398 – 0.7% higher than a year ago. 

Bonniedog

kildare lad wrote: »

Sure give everyone a house when they come here and squeeze the taxpayers even more .

 

The people pushing this not only think that the world and its mother should be allowed come here and basically live for nothing, but that the housing and hospital shortages they complain about can be solved at the same time as taking in people who will never work.

It is not Poles and other Europeans demanding this. They don't need it. They have same rights here as other EU citizens. The poster boys and girls of "birthright citizenship" are freeloaders from Africa and other kips. Who by the way do not allow everyone born in their country to become a citizen. Otherwise half of Africa would move to adjoining marginally less worse kips.

Tell me how

MontgomeryClift wrote: »

Maybe that has something to do with a certain referendum in 2004 and a subsequent change to the constitution.

There's more evidence in Trumps cases being laughed out of court across the US at the moment than there is in this statement.

Kivaro

Tell me how wrote: »

There's more evidence in Trumps cases being laughed out of court across the US at the moment than there is in this statement.

And here we have, ladies and gentlemen, the new Godwin law of our 'new' age. When open-border types have lost the argument and cannot provide any sensible viewpoint to the discussion, they throw in the name "Trump", in the hope of derailing the thread. It is their last resort. All it does is actually highlight their dismal failure to constructively add to the topic on hand.

grassylawn

I think a key difference between USA and Ireland here is that the USA does not have a comparable welfare system. People go to America with the expectation of paying their own way. So it doesn't really attract "bad dudes" so much as people who want to work for a better life for themselves and their families.

Our welfare system is a joke. The punchline is people who do nothing get houses that fairly successful people cannot afford.

V8 Interceptor

What on earth is in this for us? Why would Labour want to do this?

Mad_maxx

V8 Interceptor wrote: »

What on earth is in this for us? Why would Labour want to do this?

you cant put a price on having a TCD sociology professor salute you at a dinner party in Dublin South East

V8 Interceptor

Why is it that this Country tries to ape everything the Brits did and made a mess of already? Seems like mini-me Labour want to do what big brother UK Labour did and destroy the 'native' working class, the very people they're supposed to want to protect.