Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

Duckjob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119046452#Comment_119046452

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119047495#Comment_119047495

Larbre34: "I don't talk for everyone....."

Also Larbre34: "I can tell you what the residents of Sandymount want..."

😅

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119049294#Comment_119049294

Tell me then, why isn't there a cycleway on one traffic lane of Strand Road / Beach Road as we speak?

I always discuss things, it's just that the group think here chooses not to hear the reality of what I say.

loyatemu

this thread is just page after page after page of people pointlessly arguing with Larbre34 - you're all wasting your time, he/she is not interested in your arguments or in any sort of compromise. Save yourself a lot of time and effort:

Larbre34

You see that's where you're wrong. I'm always interested in compromises that result in a win/win, but generally in here a project won't get any credence unless it overtly disadvantages motorists in some way.

I'm all for every aspect of Bus Connects for example, because it delivers the kind of impact that handing over busy traffic lanes to cycling simply does not do.

Weepsie

It's not and never about disadvantaging motorists that this is the lazy **** trope that the likes of yourself and mannox like to spout.

It's about encouraging people to alternative modes for what are short urban trips. A car in Dublin for a rather large proportion of journeys is unnecessary given that so many journeys are single occupancy 4-5 km (and there's data to support this too). It's about offering a safe alternative route to those who cycle.

We've pandered to private motorists too long and the city is in a state because of it.

That any attempt at something a little novel gets whinged at, and scaremongered into oblivion is a symptom of all the backward nimbyism that is driving all sorts of disparity in this country, but the I'm alright jack camp can carry on safe in the knowledge that they like to self flagellation of sitting in endless amount of unnecessarily heavy commuter traffic because it means a handful of people won't be inconvenienced for let me see ,

Getting to airport, getting the elderly to appointments, all the natural wildlife outthere (yet ye still want to jump in the car) etc etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119051698#Comment_119051698

I asked for evidence for 3 specific claims and you provided none.

Why is this user allowed to continue posting? They post statements that have been proven to be incorrect multiple times, they argue in obviously bad faith, they go on deranged tangents and claim to be able to speak for thousands of people at a time.

A discussion means multiple sides taking on board each others differing opinions, knowledge and evidence. You have never taken on board anyone elses opinion, knowledge or evidence, even when such has been carefully referenced and includes links to authoritative sources. You are everything that is wrong with what forums became, especially boards.ie.

Larbre34

Sounds like you have many more axes to grind than just disagreement with me, Wet. This is a general discussion about outline proposals for infrastructure, not a position paper for Engineers Ireland.

I'm sorry to be the one to tell you that the Internet isn't run to your personal standards of validation either. That doesn't make other people's contributions any less valid. If that's irreconcilable for you, there are options.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119054997#Comment_119054997

You make factual claims and then run away from them.

You respond with hyperbolic statements rather than with anything of substance.

You claim to speak for thousands of people and when challenged on it, claim counterfactuals are proof of what they want.

When challenged on this, you eventually reply with the point that its ridiculous for anyone to expect that factual statements you make should require any evidence on your part, even though you post them as if they are true, often with a snide and condescending tone.

Unsurprisingly, long-term expensive infrastructure that can literally mean the difference between life and death for road users is a topic that is based on a body of knowledge, evidence, regulations and best practices from across the world. Yes, it absolutely does have a higher standard of evidence required when making blasé unfounded claims about it. Just as making claims about the covid vaccine having deadly side effects requires a higher standard of evidence than someone saying "pollen makes my eyes weepy".

"oh my god you want me to provide evidence for a factual claim I made? HOW DARE YOU THIS IS NOT A POSITION PAPER FOR ENGINEERS IRELAND"

Larbre34

It's working pretty well for my side so far.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119059504#Comment_119059504

Challenges such as those done by DCC in relation to Capel dt pedestrianisation are a solid way to dismantle such misinformation.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119059720#Comment_119059720

Capel Street isn't a 5km cycleway on a major arterial, quite the opposite, its a free annexation of a prime street for the hospitality businesses. Yes, it has majority support from the area it immediately effects, but no point pretending it hasn't been divisive either. Just like Malahide and Dun Laoghaire. Heck, the Dun Laoghaire version didn't even allow bikes!

Furze99

Haven't cycled in Dublin city centre for several years. So was pleasantly surprised to find out how relatively handy it is now with all the cycle and bus lanes. Pleasant even, enjoyable.

One thing I did notice though was that about half of cyclists are not too bothered about stopping at traffic lights, except maybe at major junctions. Otherwise they just sidle past you, quick look and carry on. Can see pros and cons to doing this. Trouble is, it's OK for the savvy but encourages others and if majority of cyclists crash the lights, then there's safety issues for them and pedestrians etc.

Don't know what the answer is but something that cyclists/ city authorities are going to need to sort out as more people cycle. How does it work out in other large cities with lots of cyclists?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071050#Comment_119071050

One thing I did notice though was that about half of cyclists are not too bothered about stopping at traffic lights

There is no acceptable excuse for that

Larbre34

In the Netherlands, you get a €95 fine for breaking a red light. And both electronic and in-person enforcement is pretty vigorous.

It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation in Ireland, when does the cohesion of the cycling network result in investment in dedicated enforcement, and so on. Its a valid area to look into, but pending that, I don't see why the Guards couldn't set up some stings at locations identified for low observance of red lights, in the same way that speed traps and mass drink-driving check points are set up for motorists. Publicity of these sort of things really do work wonders for awareness and compliance.

I do find it equally annoying when I'm cycling or driving, to be waiting on a red and see other bikes do everything from sailing through unchecked to creeping onto the junction, or tying their departure to the adjacent pedestrian light. All very dangerous and a terrible example to younger cyclists joining the road.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071224#Comment_119071224

When do you reckon all the publicity about speeding and speed traps will do wonders for compliance? Last RSA speed survey had non compliance rates up to 98%.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071269#Comment_119071269

Yes, I think that we're not great at observing rules and regulations that seem to be a nuisance. Bit like what the yanks called jay walking - in some countries, citizens are fastidious in terms of finding a pedestrian crossing. Here most (inc myself) will cross at will, having taken a good look,

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071305#Comment_119071305

Slightly beside the point, but criminalising "jaywalking" is utter insanity. You will also generally find that those countries were people are fastidious about finding pedestrian crossings there is amply supply of them and the cycles are acceptable.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071050#Comment_119071050

Compliance with all road traffic rules in Ireland is poorly enforced. I've actually seen a lot more cyclists get pulled over than car drivers in Dublin City Centre. If we start rigorous enforcement of the rules I think that has to start with car drivers.

Grassey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071305#Comment_119071305

As far as I know the only rule we have is

"

• You must not cross within the area either side of the crossing marked by zig-zag white lines. If these lines are not provided, you must not cross within an area 15m either side of the crossing. 

"

So there is no issue with crossing at will outside of that.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071912#Comment_119071912

I wouldn't go down that road here - I mean vast majority of motorists stop at traffic lights when red. And wait till the green.

I was going along in the bike lane, passed out a couple of slower bikes and then stopped at next lights. They sailed past, I passed them again and ditto etc. Just annoying to see that sort of indifference to the basic rules around traffic lights. Though I'll hold my hand up and say I got fed up and scooted through a pedestrian crossing as no one on it.

When I lived in Dublin many years ago, there were no bike lanes and it was survival of the fittest. You had your wits fully about you and acted accordingly. But most cyclists still stopped for lights, at most you got ahead a little before the green came.

Times change I guess.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119071269#Comment_119071269

You'll admit, I presume, that you're talking about this one category only and that non-compliance across all other categories averages 30%?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119072783#Comment_119072783

Holy crap, I didn't realise speeding was as bad as that across all those different categories.

30% non-compliance on average, thats bonkers. I can't imagine another facet of life where that level of non-compliance would be tolerated

The near total non-compliance on urban 30k routes suggests greater intervention is needed, from enforcement to engineering to physically prevent speeds greater than 30k

Larbre34

You might be shocked at the number of people that give the State the middle finger, when it comes to things like gift taxes, TV licences, Court ordered child maintenance payments etc.

But I digest. Sounds good Tonto, when you get the public to buy into something that draconian, give me a call.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119073059#Comment_119073059

Was it not yourself that told us; "Publicity of these sort of things really do work wonders for awareness and compliance"?

You seem to be contradicting yourself now.

Grassey

..

Macy0161

I wouldn't go down that road here - I mean vast majority of motorists stop at traffic lights when red. And wait till the green.

Seriously, the numbers going through amber and red's is ridiculous. Pretty much every junction on my commute I have a green and there's still vehicles coming out - a long way past "amber gambling" anyway. Just from positioning at the advance stop line you can see the lights. I often see red left and right turns ignored as well (the junctions where straight on is still green), including a near miss with a pedestrian a few weeks ago when they were crossing on a green man.

Most cyclists I see breaking lights (which isn't "most cyclists" I see), they are rolling through with the pedestrian crossings/ taking the opportunity to take a right, or rolling around to turn left (which is legal in many countries). It can be an irritation, even to me if I have to pass them, but I don't see people barrelling through dangerously tbh.

ARX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119072489#Comment_119072489

I wouldn't agree that the "vast majority of motorists stop at red lights when red". I go through the light-controlled roundabout at junction 14 of the M50 4 or 5 times a week (approaching from Kilgobbin Rd) and when there is any significant amount of traffic, there are almost always three or four vehicles still coming through when the traffic lights turn to green for me, so I would guess that probably six to eight go through after the light turns red, and another couple on amber that could have safely stopped. It's the same at any busy junction (eg the junction of Chapelizod Rd (the bridge) with Chapelizod Main St (at the Mullingar House pub)). Either there's a vast and pointless conspiracy to run red lights when I'm around, or the majority of drivers will break a red light when they can get away with it.

Most drivers won't overtake a stationary vehicle to break a red light, but it has happened to me from time to time (most recently a Dublin Bus when I was first in line (in a car) at a red light).

Thelonious Monk

Red light argument is ridiculous, bikes and pedestrians don't really heed to these things as much because they see no risk, and are unlikely to harm themselves or others if they are careful. Cars break them all the time, I see it daily, but overall they're more likely to stop at reds because if they don't they might die or kill someone.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074553#Comment_119074553

"Red light argument is ridiculous, bikes and pedestrians don't really heed to these things as much because they see no risk"

Well if that is the case, we need new Rules of the Road. I'm all for it. I don't like traffic lights much as they slow everything up. But the whole idea of the Rules of the Road is that peoples behaviour is predictable, other road users expect certain things to happen certain ways.

So if the case that some road users can ignore lights and treat all junctions as Yield Right of Way, everyone needs to know that inc cars and lorries and buses.

So if I'm cycling then I can legally take a look and carry on through a red light if safe to do so. And if I'm driving and see a cyclist, I can expect them to do just that.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119074751#Comment_119074751

I agree, bikes should not have to adhere to lights the same way, it's ridiculous to apply the same rules to a bike and a car. It's like if you want to go left at a red light on a bike, legally you can just step off the bike, wheel it over the footpath to the road going left, and then cycle again, but if you stay on the bike it's not legal. Makes no sense.